How would you introduce new maneuver dials for existing ships? To borrow from another thread, what about a TIE Defender Aces pack that introduced a "TIE Defender [some variant or other]" dial that added S-Loops and/or T-Rolls? I figure they'd have to add a modification, title, elite or some other kind of upgrade (with a point cost) to justify the additional capability. There might be more elegant solutions. Any ideas?

The [+] prefix means that you're welcome to post on this topic if you like the concept and have something positive to contribute. Unimaginative naysaying twits will be added to my ignore list.

At this point, I don't think it's posible to realistically introduce new dials for older ships. The only way would be adding upgrades/abilities that modify dials or enable new options.

Adding another maneuvering dial for a pre-existing ship introduces a whole nother level of complexity to the strategy of the game.

For example. Instead of giving it a Title or requiring even more points to be spent to fix it, what if they introduced a completely different dial, which, at the beginning of the game, you'd choose which dial to go with, and stick with it throughout the game?

The original dial has a 4k that is white. What if the alternate dial had no K-turns at all, but instead had red 3-speed S-Loops and red Talon Rolls? At the beginning of the game, you'd simply choose which maneuver dial to go with, and you'd fly with that maneuver dial the whole game. Each has its own pros and cons (no K-turns and four more red maneuvers on the one hand, versus a white K-turn and no red maneuvers on the other hand).

Not only do you get to choose between two maneuvering dials, but your opponent has to deal with not knowing what kind of maneuvers your ship has until you first reveal them. This can give you a kind of edge you need (and deserve) as a TIE Defender pilot, at least one that lasts in the early rounds of the game. Thoughts?

Oh I totally agree it should be done. Really, there is no reason that Interceptors shouldn't have S-Loops and T-rolls, but that's not nearly as big a deal since it's so rare that people run interceptors without PTL. A-wings are another possibility though, at least for the S-loops.

Really, I think they dropped the ball wave two by giving the generic YT-1300 the same dial as the Falcon. It should have come with two dials, one more similar to that of the shuttle or the HWK, and then the one we're familiar with. The Millenium Falcon title would let you use the better dial.

I think the best way to go about this is to make it a new pilot's ability. "Use Admiral Zaarin's maneuver dial instead of the normal TIE Defender dial." Otherwise you're going to have to buy a lot of new dials to upgrade old ships. I guess this problem already exists for new card fixes, though.

I really like the idea of having to choose between two separate dials when building your list; it would add a lot of strategy. Definitely a great direction for future ships to go.

I don't think it will happen, but after reading the speculation on how it would work, I really like the idea. Adds an extra layer of tactics. Would tou maybe be able to swap dials between tournament rounds almost like a side-board?

I think you can accomplish the same thing more easily via titles, modifications, and new pilots.

But I do think a number of the existing ships would benefit from the new maneuvers.

Just do some mods and titles.

Kinda like the ig-88 D states.

When performing a 3 hard turn, after revealing the dial, you may change it into a Tallon Roll, etc.

My idea from my other thread:

Title:

Best Pilots in the Galaxy

1 Point

Tie Defender Only

When performing a 3 hard turn, after revealing the dial, you may change it into a Tallon Roll, this counts as a red maneuver.

Easy peasy! No dial updates needed.

I like it. Not the "2 dials, decide at beginning of match" bit. That's fiddly and really hard to track.

Imagine a shuttle who loses systems and/or a crew for a ywing dial... Call it "streamlined". Now would it be a title, modification, or work as a single pilot? Best thing is all three are good options.

The problem I see here is if FFG did put out a Tie Defender aces pack that had a new dial then who would buy the original blister pack Defenders?

Sure this aces pack could come with extra dials (like MW) but there is only so much space on the cardboard

Add a title that changes them to another ship entirely. Kihraxz would be ideal, but that's a boring title. FFG can do better.

I do love the idea of the new Defender dial- give it the TRoll and K-turn as white maneuvers. Maybe S-loops also. Trade out it's barrel roll for boost. I think all of that could be dealt with by a zero point title- and it would let the Defender take autothrusters, also. The Defender would have to choose between AT and TIE Mrk 2.

I would _love_ to see that as a whole new dial, but I don't actually want to deal with the level of fiddliness that would introduce. Adding the new damage deck is complicated enough.

I think ships are locked in with their dials as well a ship stats. The only way to change the dial is to well take a look at the Episode 7 core set. The X-wing got a new dial because the X-wing has been replaced by the T-70.

I don't have a philosophical problem with multiple dials for a ship type, as long as that decision is made in the list building phase. But for practical reasons (cards are cheaper than cardboard), I expect dial modification ship fixes to stay in the current "When you reveal an old and busted maneuver, you may execute a new hotness maneuver instead" space.

Some times, you have to accept stuff that was created earlier in the design process won't have access to new things the designers think up.

I don't have a philosophical problem with multiple dials for a ship type, as long as that decision is made in the list building phase. But for practical reasons (cards are cheaper than cardboard), I expect dial modification ship fixes to stay in the current "When you reveal an old and busted maneuver, you may execute a new hotness maneuver instead" space.

I agree with this and really hope the T-70 expansion pack has some sort of X-Wing upgrade that doesn't do much for the T-70 but does make the T-65 competitive again (esp the generics).

I don't think it's going to happen, but yes, I do think some of the more maneuverable ships should have had S-Loops and T-Rolls.

Just a side effect of them not thinking of it until way later.

Eh maybe the allowance of moves via new pilots, modifications/titles etc. I'm not sure i'd like to see it as it removes the idea of adding new and exciting new ships to the range.

Sure, we just have to accept older ships and game components the way they are.

That's why we have Chardaan Refits, B-Wings that can carry crew, TIE Advanceds with system slots, TIE Interceptors with two modifications, a new damage deck, a third faction, Warthog Y-Wings and do I really need to go on?

You're just wrong if you think we need to be satisfied with older ships the way they are. Clearly, FFG isn't satisfied with them.

I'm not even suggesting that older dials be replaced. I'm suggesting new options, appropriately priced.

That's why we have Chardaan Refits, B-Wings that can carry crew, TIE Advanceds with system slots, TIE Interceptors with two modifications, a new damage deck, a third faction, Warthog Y-Wings and do I really need to go on?

Those ship upgrades are all Title cards though. And there's no good way for a title card to change a ship's dial.

About the best you can do is make it say "When this ship reveals a [blank] maneuver, you may change it to a [blank] maneuver instead." But that's actually more powerful than just having the new maneuver on your dial, because now it gives you two different options of where to end your ship at the moment of dial reveal.

Personally I feel like some ships (lookin at you HWK) just need a straight up replaced dial, rather than getting an upgrade card that switches it.

A lot of ships have done well, despite their "bad" dial. I think people should just learn to use the dial given, rather than wanting another ship's dial.

Personally I feel like some ships (lookin at you HWK) just need a straight up replaced dial, rather than getting an upgrade card that switches it.

And how exactly would you distribute that new dial?

Same way the new damage deck is

Same way the new damage deck is

I'm going to assume this means put it in a new package with the HWK.

But how does this fix your old HWK model? If you have to buy a new HWK to get a new dial, why wouldn't you just use that dial with the HWK it came with?

And you're right back where you started. With your old model still having it's old dial.