It seems to me that it is nearly impossible now to "keep up" without buying everything. A year ago I had some luck staying competitive just buying the ships I wanted to play (Imperials fyi). Now it seems I need to buy at least one or two of everything, including the epic-sized ships, to get cards that are viewed as pretty much essential. I don't have the budget for this. I don't mind not being able to win at big tournaments, I'm not that skilled of a player anyway. But it is frustrating that I can't even compete in more casual settings because I don't have the latest upgrades, weapons, etc.

If I wanted to go the copy-cat route and just use some of the lists that were winning at Regionals and Nationals I found that the price tag keeps going up. To run those lists, I have to buy a lot of ships I don't fly (and don't want to) just to get cards. This didn't seem to be the case for the first four or so waves.

Are others seeing the same thing? Has the cost of keeping up with all the new releases created a two-tiered player base? One tier is those that buy what they want to play with. The other tier is those that buy everything to make sure they have the optimal lists for whatever meta is current.

Obviously I'm in the first, lower, tier. But the two tiers didn't used to be so far apart in capabilities. Now it seems they are, and that the performance gap will continue to grow with new Waves, more Epic-class sets, and new expansions in... what, FIVE factions now? Can an Empire player compete without buying First Order ships? Can any single faction compete without buying ships from the other factions to get the best cards?

I am reluctantly considering selling off my X-Wing collection, no doubt for horribly low prices, and just focusing on Armada which hasn't yet gotten to this point. But I'd prefer to keep it, and play now and then, so long as I have a reasonable chance of winning, based on my skill in play (or lack thereof) instead of a near-guaranteed loss because my lists are so greatly out-classed.

No, it's always been like that. In Wave 2, what do you think TIE Interceptor players did to get copies of Push the Limit? They bought A-Wings, of course. What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack. In Wave 3, Rebel players had to buy multiple Lambda Shuttles to get copies of Advanced Sensors for their B-Wings. Nothing's changed.

There are not five factions. There are still just three. What's changed is that the Rebel faction now has two subfactions (Rebel Alliance and Resistance) and the Imperial faction now has two subfactions (Galactic Empire and First Order). They are functionally identical unless an upgrade card specifies that a particular subfaction only may use it. We don't have any of those yet, though.

You do not need to buy TIE/FO Fighters to be competitive. Hell, people are already complaining that there's no place for them in the game because original TIE Fighters are cheaper for swarms while the forthcoming TIE Adv. Prototype will do the TIE/FO's job but better. In any event, your RAC/Soontir list should still be competitive, your Firespray with miniswarm list should be competitive, even a Wave 1 Howlswarm to this day is nothing to trifle with.

Don't overreact to the deluge of product we've gotten in the last two weeks. It's mostly Lucasfilm Licensing's fault for 1) taking forever to approve the Raider design even though it was ready to be printed and shipped in the spring, and 2) mandating that FFG release Episode 7 stuff specifically on Sept. 4 to coincide with their Force Friday marketing bonanza. I imagine if it were up to FFG, these releases would have been spaced out much better.

And for what it's worth, I JUST bought a Raider last weekend, still haven't bought a YV and probably won't buy a Force Awakens Core Set for at least a month because money is too tight. So I'm sure you're not the only one unable to "keep up with the Joneses" right now.

TIE Swarms are still top competitors and will likely see a greater resurgence due to popular squads involving ships with 1 Agility. They require a hefty amount of coordination and planning which comes from experience but they can make quick work of a variety of squads.

I personally can't keep up with everything either. I was close, only missing the Huge ships and the Lambda. Now I'm missing a third Huge ship, the Lambda, Wave 7 and the new Core Set. Wave 8 is coming in a few months as well (if all goes according to FFG's plan).

I'll have to pick and choose what to get for a while and slowly add to my collection instead of outright buying an entire wave in one purchase.

The one thing I do like about being behind in expansions is I have had a better idea of what I want to get. It helped me to not overspend on single expansion A-Wings, B-Wings or Interceptors when their Aces packs came out.

Having less copies of ships has also helped me to create more varying squads than just spamming 4 B-Wings with FCS and calling it a day. I like to have multiple roles filled in my squads.

Also, RE: This

What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack.

Incorrect. Hound's Tooth has 1x Engine Upgrade.

...

You do not need to buy TIE/FO Fighters to be competitive. Hell, people are already complaining that there's no place for them in the game because original TIE Fighters are cheaper for swarms while the forthcoming TIE Adv. Prototype will do the TIE/FO's job but better. In any event, your RAC/Soontir list should still be competitive, your Firespray with miniswarm list should be competitive, even a Wave 1 Howlswarm to this day is nothing to trifle with.

...

Not to be competitive no, but eventually with one of the core items necessary to play the game being changed eventually you will have to get either the episode 7 core set for the damage deck or a classic core set that has been updated to include the damage deck.

From page 4 of the competitive rules.

Each player must bring all components needed for their squad and games. This includes (but is not limited to) dice, a range ruler, maneuver templates, and a complete Damage deck. The TO is not expected to supply any game components to players.

Now true that it doesn't specify which one and the old one hasn't been officially outdated yet, but if history is a guide eventually FFG will have to invalidate it and make the new one a requirement for competitive play.

TIE Swarms are still top competitors and will likely see a greater resurgence due to popular squads involving ships with 1 Agility. They require a hefty amount of coordination and planning which comes from experience but they can make quick work of a variety of squads.

I personally can't keep up with everything either. I was close, only missing the Huge ships and the Lambda. Now I'm missing a third Huge ship, the Lambda, Wave 7 and the new Core Set. Wave 8 is coming in a few months as well (if all goes according to FFG's plan).

I'll have to pick and choose what to get for a while and slowly add to my collection instead of outright buying an entire wave in one purchase.

The one thing I do like about being behind in expansions is I have had a better idea of what I want to get. It helped me to not overspend on single expansion A-Wings, B-Wings or Interceptors when their Aces packs came out.

Having less copies of ships has also helped me to create more varying squads than just spamming 4 B-Wings with FCS and calling it a day. I like to have multiple roles filled in my squads.

Also, RE: This

What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack.

Incorrect. Hound's Tooth has 1x Engine Upgrade.

Sorry, I didn't realize because, as stated, I don't have one yet, heh.

Wave 8 won't be out until like February, by the way, so don't worry about that. On the other hand, the Gozanti Assault Carrier might be out in December ...

TIE Swarms are still top competitors and will likely see a greater resurgence due to popular squads involving ships with 1 Agility. They require a hefty amount of coordination and planning which comes from experience but they can make quick work of a variety of squads.

I personally can't keep up with everything either. I was close, only missing the Huge ships and the Lambda. Now I'm missing a third Huge ship, the Lambda, Wave 7 and the new Core Set. Wave 8 is coming in a few months as well (if all goes according to FFG's plan).

I'll have to pick and choose what to get for a while and slowly add to my collection instead of outright buying an entire wave in one purchase.

The one thing I do like about being behind in expansions is I have had a better idea of what I want to get. It helped me to not overspend on single expansion A-Wings, B-Wings or Interceptors when their Aces packs came out.

Having less copies of ships has also helped me to create more varying squads than just spamming 4 B-Wings with FCS and calling it a day. I like to have multiple roles filled in my squads.

Also, RE: This

What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack.

Incorrect. Hound's Tooth has 1x Engine Upgrade.

Sorry, I didn't realize because, as stated, I don't have one yet, heh.

Wave 8 won't be out until like February, by the way, so don't worry about that. On the other hand, the Gozanti Assault Carrier might be out in December ...

I read somewhere on here that Wave 8 supposedly got bumped up to late November/ early December to be out in time for Christmas, to ride off of the Episode 7 hype.

Of course that may be just speculation, and the longer the gap, the better. (Even though I really want to run Ghost/Falcon combo, I haven't even gotten my K-wing on the table yet).

Judging by the Upcoming page, which doesn't list Wave 8 as being printed yet, I don't think it'll make it in time for Christmas unless FFG airlifts a small quantity at considerable cost.

If I wanted to go the copy-cat route and just use some of the lists that were winning at Regionals and Nationals I found that the price tag keeps going up. To run those lists, I have to buy a lot of ships I don't fly (and don't want to) just to get cards. This didn't seem to be the case for the first four or so waves.

Easy solution: don't go the copycat route.

No need to be slave to the groupthink.

I don't mind not being able to win at big tournaments, I'm not that skilled of a player anyway. But it is frustrating that I can't even compete in more casual settings because I don't have the latest upgrades, weapons, etc.

Have you thought about borrowing/proxying stuff? I've always found other X-Wing players are happy to lend ships/cards out or accept proxies.

Are others seeing the same thing? Has the cost of keeping up with all the new releases created a two-tiered player base? One tier is those that buy what they want to play with. The other tier is those that buy everything to make sure they have the optimal lists for whatever meta is current.

I played a list last week with one K-Wing and three B-Wings. With the exception of one upgrade card (that comes with the Firespray and the Aggressor) every pilot and upgrade came with the K-Wing and B-Wing packs.

It seems to me that it is nearly impossible now to "keep up" without buying everything. A year ago I had some luck staying competitive just buying the ships I wanted to play (Imperials fyi). Now it seems I need to buy at least one or two of everything, including the epic-sized ships, to get cards that are viewed as pretty much essential. I don't have the budget for this. I don't mind not being able to win at big tournaments, I'm not that skilled of a player anyway. But it is frustrating that I can't even compete in more casual settings because I don't have the latest upgrades, weapons, etc.

If I wanted to go the copy-cat route and just use some of the lists that were winning at Regionals and Nationals I found that the price tag keeps going up. To run those lists, I have to buy a lot of ships I don't fly (and don't want to) just to get cards. This didn't seem to be the case for the first four or so waves.

Are others seeing the same thing? Has the cost of keeping up with all the new releases created a two-tiered player base? One tier is those that buy what they want to play with. The other tier is those that buy everything to make sure they have the optimal lists for whatever meta is current.

Obviously I'm in the first, lower, tier. But the two tiers didn't used to be so far apart in capabilities. Now it seems they are, and that the performance gap will continue to grow with new Waves, more Epic-class sets, and new expansions in... what, FIVE factions now? Can an Empire player compete without buying First Order ships? Can any single faction compete without buying ships from the other factions to get the best cards?

I am reluctantly considering selling off my X-Wing collection, no doubt for horribly low prices, and just focusing on Armada which hasn't yet gotten to this point. But I'd prefer to keep it, and play now and then, so long as I have a reasonable chance of winning, based on my skill in play (or lack thereof) instead of a near-guaranteed loss because my lists are so greatly out-classed.

I fly exclusively Rebel and Scum, and I don't see this being the case for me at all. For example, I have no need of the Gozanti, Raider, or TIE Punisher, nor their upgrades, to build competitive Rebel or Scum squadrons. Out of Wave 7, all I bought was a K-Wing (I might get another?) and a Kxiruhxzhx Fighter. And as I don't see myself flying the Hound's Tooth, and none of its upgrades are really necessary to my style of Rebel/Scum list-building, I can get away with skipping out on it.

I find that as more and more waves are being released, especially now with Wave 7 and the T-70 X-Wing, there is far too much diversity in the game for a rock-paper-scissors meta to actually form. While Wave 5 solidified the meta, Wave 6 shook it up a bit (though the control list/swarm/fat turret meta was still dominant). Now we have bombers that drop bombs all over the board, TLT accuracy shooters, swarms with missiles that actually work, Hawks that do all kinds of things competitively, and X-Wings are (slowly) being reintroduced competitively (besides Biggs, though I predict we'll see more of him protecting K-Wings).

Anyway, because there's no definite meta (though there are definite combinations of upgrades and ships, such as PTL always on Soontir and R2-D2 always on Corran), you can now build your own list out of existing upgrades with the new ships in your faction that appeal to you.

I wonder, though, if you're feeling this way because you stick exclusively to Imperial. You've only gotten one ship given to you in Wave 7, but there are some cool upgrades you're missing out on by not flying Scum and Rebel (such as Bombadier, Crack Shot, and Lightning Reflexes, though come to think of it, I can't think of many instances where you'd take those except on Emon, and the EPTs I can't imagine one using in the valuable Imperial EPT slot). I'm actually curious as to what you think you need from the new Scum and Rebel ships to build a competitive Imperial list (I'm not judging or criticizing, I'm just really curious about your ideal post-Wave-7 list).

Unless you want to be able to build every tournament winning list, you don't need to buy everything. You just need enough for one good list.

This game isn't very expensive if you only want to fun a handful of competitive lists. It's when you want to run quad advanced AND 6 Bombers AND a fat falcon child with ice cream smeared on his face list that it gets expensive.

Kirahxz's, Hound's Teeth, and the punisher you can do without. K Wing you can buy a double of for quad TLT. Raider is a bit pricey for the advanced cards but there are plenty of other good imperial lists.

IDK, seems like someone is just buttmad that they'll have to acquire more ships than a Decimator and a Phantom/Interceptor and play a non-ruined game.

I mean, if it's really a problem, just buy the cards on eBay, or work out a deal with someone to trade, or just borrow some for a tournament when you're not allowed to proxy. I really don't know of anyone that's against proxying outside tournaments, as we all realize how expensive it can get to run certain lists.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess the situation isn't as bad as the forum discussions make it seem. All the threads showing how the TIE/fo replaces this, but the advanced prototype with the Raider is better than that along with upgrade discussions from Rebel and Scum packs for Imperial lists just made it seem worse than it is.

Perhaps what set me off was the inclusion of the TIE advanced prototype in with the Raider. Having to buy a huge ship only usable in epic play (which virtually no one in my area plays due to the "epic" amounts of time required) to get cards usable in regular play just seemed unfair to those of us without large amounts of disposable income.

Don't forget that a lot of single cards are on eBay for a couple of bucks. Personally, I'd rather buy the ship, but if someone is just after an upgrade card or two for a targeted list, then you can get anything you want for a few dollars on eBay,

I am not competitive and actually don't get a chance to play much as I live in the country and my nearest LGS is about an hour and half away. I love the models and am a bit of a completionist. I have only eve bought one of each pack and I am behind. Only the transport for huge ships. Need the outrider and the defender. Don't have any of w7. I am planning on getting the new core set as I never bought a second one. I would like to think that as I continue on this path, if I was able to play more and get to more tournaments I could field a competitive list. Maybe not to compete at nationals or worlds, but for a casual tournament.

Right now is pretty much the biggest glut of releases at once in the history of the game. A late wave and a late epic combined with a forced release and a moved up release combined with FFG upping production finally all makes it feel really expensive now.

I started just single faction (imperial) and traded cards with my buddy who was all rebel. Now I live far away and am the primary supplier of ships when we play and have had to buy a few rebels here and there and am loving scum. I now have to provide my own ships for target practice as an imperial player. It's weird. But you can get away with 1 of most things that are not ties or Zs.

Proxy away for casual play. Half the time I don't even get out the upgrade cards for my lists as I just have them up on "yet another..." Makes set up and clean up faster too. (I do use upgrades for bombs and other consumables).

Just dropped another $140 for me. Another $40 for the new core. Good thing my birthday and Christmas are left this year for some other stuff.

I guess the situation isn't as bad as the forum discussions make it seem.

This is a pretty safe assumption in general.

The wave 1 TIE swarm is still very competitive: although you might want to update it with one of the new TIE/fo pilots from the Force Awakens core set, you don't need to do anything. I recently ran a Wave 2 Han/Rookie/Rookie list for fun, and trounced a friend's Scum list. I would happily run a Wave 3 BBXX list tomorrow. And so on.

Compared to other minis games, X-wing actually has surprisingly little power-creep and… I don't know, planned obsolescence? You really can adapt and have fun without feeling rushed or pushed into getting something new.

Don't let it get to you. Buy what you can when you can... most importantly have FUN! This is not a job... it is just the best miniatures game ever made.

No, it's always been like that. In Wave 2, what do you think TIE Interceptor players did to get copies of Push the Limit? They bought A-Wings, of course. What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack. In Wave 3, Rebel players had to buy multiple Lambda Shuttles to get copies of Advanced Sensors for their B-Wings. Nothing's changed.

Yep! And it's ALWAYS sucked!

No, it's always been like that. In Wave 2, what do you think TIE Interceptor players did to get copies of Push the Limit? They bought A-Wings, of course. What if you want Engine Upgrade to add Boost to your action bar? To this day, the only way to get it is to buy a Millennium Falcon pack. In Wave 3, Rebel players had to buy multiple Lambda Shuttles to get copies of Advanced Sensors for their B-Wings. Nothing's changed.

Yep! And it's ALWAYS sucked!

Nope you can get it in Hound too.

Call me when I can get Autothrusters from something that's actually part of my faction. Or the TIE/x1 and ATC with something that doesn't cost $100.

Having to buy a huge ship only usable in epic play (which virtually no one in my area plays due to the "epic" amounts of time required) to get cards usable in regular play just seemed unfair to those of us without large amounts of disposable income.

A certain golden droid would like to speak with you.

The Joneses are a bunch of narcissistic snobs.

Why would you want to perpetuate their delusions of adequacy...