Comparing the two X-wings, the T-70 base pilot costs 3 more points, gives me a shield, an action that is worth more for its access to autothrusters then for the action itself (since it's not a large base ship and it doesn't have an innate barrel roll to be a "true" arc dodger), a new upgrade slot which has very limited options currently, and a slightly better dial.

With the generic T-65 feeling about 2 points too much as is, I'm thinking the T-70 is just a single point too much, and the generics will fall out of favor in time, and we will be back to B-wings as the backbone to rebel lists that were attempting to fit in the T-70.

What are your thoughts? Can you make me a believer in the new X-wing?

I'd have to see some math. They have to outperform fcs b-wings which are also 24 points. That seems like a tall order, but without the math I couldn't be sure.

Perhaps we should ask one the playtesters who have been walking among us with deception in their hearts for months.

T-65 + Engine Upgrade + Shield Upgrade + Major Dial Upgrade + Tech Slot = > 8 points

T-70 - T-65 = 3 points.

The T-70 has a good range of stress shedding options, the incredible Astromech slot, six health to the B-wing's 8 (which isn't too shabby at all considering it's one up on agility, which makes HP more valuable), an extra agility die (which is very important against massed attacks like Swarms of Twin Laser Turrets) and a great dial. The B-wing has a bad dial unless you give it Advanced Sensors and then it's 25 points.

the incredible Astromech slot,

It's got some good options, sure, but it's no Systems slot.

Well they sure beat the E-wings with better stats for cheaper point cost.

The boost is the biggest deciding factor. How will autothrusters work on 2 green dice especially with all the range 3 turrets in play. Sure TLT will beat it if it rolls 3 hits but I'm thinking autothrusters will be able to pull a 2nd evade quite often meaning TLT won't damage the T-70 unless it does roll 3 hits on 3 dice which is a tall order.

With the generic T-65 feeling about 2 points too much as is, I'm thinking the T-70 is just a single point too much

To echo Blue Five a bit... But your math is clearly off.

If you accept the T-65 being 2 points too high for what you get. How can the T-70 be one point to much, with all the extra stuff it has?

The extra hull alone is worth more then 1 point. So if it had that and nothing else, it would be better then the generic T-65.

Boost can be much more useful then barrel roll, so it has that over the B-Wing, plus it has the astromech slot, a better dial and the talon roll.

Also the PS4 T-70 has a EPT slot, something none of the generic B's have.

It's got some good options, sure, but it's no Systems slot.

The only thing the system slot is really good for is FCS or AdvSen. With the astromech you can take BB-8 for the same price as FCS and get a free barrel roll action.

FCS is a LOT better than a free barrel roll.

T-65 + Engine Upgrade + Shield Upgrade + Major Dial Upgrade + Tech Slot = > 8 points

T-70 - T-65 = 3 points.

People please dont use prices anywhere near the realm of available modifications. Shield/hull/engine are all TERRIFYINGLY overcosted to keep them from being auto include

A good metric they do not make

What's a better metric?

Juggler said the 21 point xwing would be viable with one more hull

The t70 has one more shield...for 3 more points

What are your thoughts? Can you make me a believer in the new X-wing?

Don't compare the T-70 to the X-wing, compare it to the B-wing. It costs two more points for identical attack, similar average defense, an upgrade (side-grade?) from barrel roll to boost, and a noticeably better dial--including a brand-new and (for now) exclusive maneuver.

The last time FFG counted on an exclusive maneuver to make up for an inefficient stat line, it didn't go so well for the Defender. But the T-70 dial is better than the Defender's in a couple of obvious ways, and my hope is that the dial is so good that the ship is priced properly.

But! Even if the ship as a whole is a bit too expensive, the named pilots we have are pretty good. Poe Dameron gets action-free (mostly, anyway) dice modification, which is huge, and he's going to be great friends with a couple of astromechs. Meanwhile, the PS5 Ace has great maneuverability, and BB-8 offers some really insane options for maneuvering on him/her.

Overall, I'm excited and cautiously optimistic about the T-70's performance.

Mind you, we haven't seen the pilots (and upgrades) in the expansions yet, but from just the new Core I'm MOST excited about the new Red Veteran! SP 4, 1 more shield, boost, tech slot, better dial, AND an EPT for 26 points! I will be flying these for sure.

What's a better metric?

Juggler said the 21 point xwing would be viable with one more hull

The t70 has one more shield...for 3 more points

Given how MathWing works I don't put that much faith in it, especially with things like TLT majorly screwing with formulae nowadays.

The T-70 gets Boost, Tallon Roll, an extra green, tech slot and an extra shield for 3 points. It definitely competes with the B-wing, which has an awful dial without Advanced Sensors. Both have their merits.

B-wing Generis Versus T-70 Generics

Pilot Skill: Matched.

Primary Weapon: Matched

Secondary Weapon: Both have torpedo options

Repositioning: Barrel Roll versus Boost, defensive versus offensive. At pilot skill this low repositioning is most useful for blocking so I'd take Boost.

Speed: T-70 wins unless the B-wing really feels like stressing itself.

Elite Generic: T-70 wins, its elite generic gets an EPT. Wave 8 has 0 cost EPTs, and there are loads of amazing 1pt EPTs now.

Upgrade Bar: Systems versus Tech and Astromech. Tech's pretty much unexplored. Systems has some nice options but they'll cost the B-wing its price advantage. Astromech has some amazing low cost options. Looking at you, R3-A2 and BB-8.

Dial: T-70 hands down unless the B-wing has Advanced Sensors. With Advanced Sensors, it's more expensive.

Defensive Statline: T-70 trades two shields for an extra agility die, which needs to block a hit twice to match the B-wing. The T-70 is therefore stronger against multiple attacks a round, and the B-wing stronger against the lone heavy hitting opponent.

Having a generic with an EPT may make a difference for the T-70. I think most ships should have a generic that has an EPT slot. If the TLT threat pans out and the average PS goes down, PS4 will be a nice place to be.

For 32 points you can get a PS4 ship with PTL and a better dial for dog fighting and ditching stress than an Interceptor has. The agility isn't quite as good and you don't have the evade action but you'll lose health at a more predictable rate. The ability to grab a TL for a TL+Focus range one shot makes the T-70 a bit stronger offensively.

I am looking forward to the Red Squadron Vet. With the option to give them VI and boos their PS, plus the tech upgrade - which we may see more options of in future expansions - I'm intrigued by the idea of a three-ship T-70 squad for my weekly casual tourny.

Boost means it will be able to close into the safety doughnut around the Twin Laser ships. And because of the upgrade bar, it is going to be able to use tons of new upgrades to be released in future expansions.

Having only 1 defense die doesn't stop people from putting Autothrusters on the Punisher.

The T-70 generics probably won't see a lot of use. They don't quite joust like the B-wing does and the Bs can take some useful upgrades and still come in at 2 to 4 in an easy slot in, whereas the generic T-70 has a hard time fitting.

It's the one flaw of the game- a lot of a ship's benefits scale up a lot with higher PS.

Bold prediction: this thread will be filled with posts by people who feel they are making bold predictions.

AUTOTHRUSTERS! 2 more points for an upgrade that is one of the best in the game and makes a huge difference. T-70 all day over B-Wing. Since they don't have equivalent point cost in order to compare pick a point value close, like 26 or 28. Now spend those points and compare.

Blue pilot ace + bb8 +auto thrusters.

Excellent arc dodging/facing with a stress free three attack.

I kind of like a Red Veteran with Predator, Autothrusters, and a cheap Astromech.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/187226-can-we-bury-the-t-65-then/

T-65 + Engine Upgrade + Shield Upgrade + Major Dial Upgrade + Tech Slot = > 8 points

T-70 - T-65 = 3 points.

Nonono no

People please dont use prices anywhere near the realm of available modifications. Shield/hull/engine are all TERRIFYINGLY overcosted to keep them from being auto include

A good metric they do not make

What's a better metric?

Juggler said the 21 point xwing would be viable with one more hull

The t70 has one more shield...for 3 more points

And boost and T-roll. You can't just say "one more shield and 3 more points". There's more to it than that.

With an additional hull to a T-65 for 21 points, switching that to an extra shield for 22 points seems reasonably priced given Bob's math results. 2 more points for boost (Autothrusters!!) and a new maneuver option? That seems like the crux of the issue.

Jacob

I use x-wings all the time.

I use x-wings all the time.

Just as long as they aren't the T-65's anymore

At just 12 more points than a Rookie T-65 pilot, the Firespray has 1 higher PS, 3 more hull, 2 more shields, the evade action, and double the firing arcs!

That's 24 points of upgrades!