Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

I agree. This strategy makes miles more sense than forcing a new core product.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

I agree. This strategy makes miles more sense than forcing a new core product.

Would you feel the same way if you didn't have a single one of the core books?

New players won't think it makes sense to have to buy a core rule book (or even 3!) and then a settings book just to play in the setting of the new film, if that's what they want to play.

Would you feel the same way if you didn't have a single one of the core books?

Yup.

Couple of reasons:

• If I saw FOUR core products, I'd be worried, three is bad enough
• If I got what claimed to be a core and was missing tons of info (see OTHER THREE BOOKS), I'd be pissed
• ANY of the existing core products is directly recognizable as Star Wars, and seeing a supplement to support the new stuff just makes it better.

Finally, All of the existing books are clearly complementary campaign styles, while this proposed "catchall" would just be a mess. Face it, theres a reason they didn't do it to start with.

I don't see why releasing a new game would be "alienating your customer base"...

The Star Wars Narative system RPG is complete as promised. You don't need anymore CRB's beyond the 3 released to be able to play it. Thus the promise to the "customer base" has been fulfilled and expectation should have been met.

Ok .... so I'm going to try this again.

A new CRB would be basically all the mechanical material we have now plus the setting info for Force Awaken. I don't have the books handy but the setting info in the current Core's can't be no more than 200 pages, if that. But basically they are going to reprint a large chunk of their rules. So this leads us down some alienating paths.

Alienation Path A: You've already bought 3 CRB's (at $60 a book) you don't see why you need to buy a 4th CRB just to gain a little bit of new info.

Alienation Path B: The proposed cherry pick option in which they pick some of the best elements of all three systems. This is going to aggravate people who paid $180 for Core material that is now being sold in slices at 1/3 the cost. If you charge your original fan base $180 and then charge new players only $60 you are going to alienate some of your customers. It also proves that they could have easily done a single core book all along and while many of us have bought all 3 books not everyone was sold on the wisdom of that idea. Knowing that it could have simply all be one book all along if they had only held out just one year longer is not going to sit well with some.

Alienation Path C: New players may think there is a bait and switch going on. Once they've been hoked by the FA core they may come to feel that they aren't getting the full Star Wars experience if they don't but some of the other cores. This will hold true especially in any situation where the the greater bulk of a new CRB is slimmed down version of the other 3. This is increased when you consider that if FFG doesn't go as deeply into the Force in an FA book then the customer will have to buy F&D to get the full Force rules and thus their new book which was supposed to be just $60 needs at least another $60 to make fully playable. Lets not kid ourselves, Force Awakens will feature the Force in a big way. There is no way around the messiness of releasing F&D and only putting in just a fraction of it's content into another book.

I think there may have been a 4th reason that I outlined in my many post in this thread but I've only had 4 hours of sleep so I'm blanking on what it was. At any rate customers will be alienated by such a move. There honestly isn't a way to produce a new CRB just for Force Awakens. And unless a Force Awakens pretty much just reprints all the Force info from Force and Destiny ( a move that will most assuredly anger some customers) a new CRB actually ends up being more expensive for the new player as in order to fully incorprate Jedi they will need the F&D book plus the new CRB at $60 a pop as opposed to maybe just F&D and a new sourcebook. The new sourcebook route has the major advantage as it updates the setting info and allows the new player to chose where he focuses his adventures, either on the Fringe, with the New Republic (or the Republic or whatever the Rebels becomes in Force Awakens) or with the Force. A FA CRB is most likely going to also require the F&D book unless the person wants to just skimp on the Force.

At any rate I'm not sure this influx of new fans is actually going to outweigh the risk posed.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

I agree. This strategy makes miles more sense than forcing a new core product.

Would you feel the same way if you didn't have a single one of the core books?

New players won't think it makes sense to have to buy a core rule book (or even 3!) and then a settings book just to play in the setting of the new film, if that's what they want to play.

Funny, that's pretty much how White Wolf did their New World of Darkness.

One "corebook" for the rules, and then splat/sourcebooks for the various supernatual types. Seems to have generally worked out pretty well for them.

Frankly the best way to hook new players is going to be a Beginner Box, one that includes elements of all three books, and then has space in the back of the simplified rulebook touting the virtues of each of the three core rulebooks and what sort of campaigns they're each best suited for.

Because let's be honest, the dice system is pretty daunting for a lot of folks until they sit down and actually play it, and a $30 Beginner Box gives a prospective new group all the tools they need to run in the hot new setting, enabling them to get a feel for if this system is for them, and then build their library from there.

And for the established players that already have one or more of the existing corebooks, a universal supplement that pretty much says "here's the new setting info and gear, so have fun!" is the best way to go. Those folks that only want to focus on one or two of the three product lines (say EotE and FaD) will be able to get the new material that applies to their preferred product line at a much lower cost than a new core rulebook.

Is it the ideal solution? Probably not, but given all the bitching and moaning back when FFG first announced they were splitting the game into three product lines (EotE, AoR, FaD), there's no solution that's going to please everyone. So they're going to what they feel makes the most sense from a business perspective, and the rest of us can take a flying leap in regards to how we think it should be done.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

I agree. This strategy makes miles more sense than forcing a new core product.

Would you feel the same way if you didn't have a single one of the core books?

New players won't think it makes sense to have to buy a core rule book (or even 3!) and then a settings book just to play in the setting of the new film, if that's what they want to play.

Yes, because the Force is my favorite aspect of Star Wars and unless the Force Awakens CRB was a complete reprint of all the Force material from Force and Destiny when I try to get into the game via Force Awakens I would need that $60 book and the Force and Destiny book for $60 book as opposed to the $40 source book and the $60 CRB of my choice. I save $20 the source book route.

Kael: I am on my phone now so that wall of text is not a pleasure to read. I'll get back to you from my desktop on my lunch break tomorrow! Apologies.

If there is *any* product specifically for The Force Awakens, I would be shocked if it isn't a beginner box, as DM suggests. Perhaps from there they may publish a sourcebook, but it'd have to be pretty big to support all three game lines (which I assume it'd have to... at least AoR and F&D), so perhaps a big new corebook isn't that far fetched.

But I definitely think if we're going to see TFA products for the RPG, it'll start with a new beginner box. It just makes sense (and is the same strategy they have taken with X-Wing).

My preference would be for a "beginner box", a sourcebook, or hopefully both. That could allow those of us who already have some or all of the core books a chance to apply those books to the alternate era, and a box set gives new players a chance to get their feet wet in the new era, a set of snazzy dice, and directions toward whichever core book(s) suit their fancy.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

I agree. This strategy makes miles more sense than forcing a new core product.

Would you feel the same way if you didn't have a single one of the core books?

New players won't think it makes sense to have to buy a core rule book (or even 3!) and then a settings book just to play in the setting of the new film, if that's what they want to play.

Funny, that's pretty much how White Wolf did their New World of Darkness.

One "corebook" for the rules, and then splat/sourcebooks for the various supernatual types. Seems to have generally worked out pretty well for them.

Frankly the best way to hook new players is going to be a Beginner Box, one that includes elements of all three books, and then has space in the back of the simplified rulebook touting the virtues of each of the three core rulebooks and what sort of campaigns they're each best suited for.

Because let's be honest, the dice system is pretty daunting for a lot of folks until they sit down and actually play it, and a $30 Beginner Box gives a prospective new group all the tools they need to run in the hot new setting, enabling them to get a feel for if this system is for them, and then build their library from there.

And for the established players that already have one or more of the existing corebooks, a universal supplement that pretty much says "here's the new setting info and gear, so have fun!" is the best way to go. Those folks that only want to focus on one or two of the three product lines (say EotE and FaD) will be able to get the new material that applies to their preferred product line at a much lower cost than a new core rulebook.

Is it the ideal solution? Probably not, but given all the bitching and moaning back when FFG first announced they were splitting the game into three product lines (EotE, AoR, FaD), there's no solution that's going to please everyone. So they're going to what they feel makes the most sense from a business perspective, and the rest of us can take a flying leap in regards to how we think it should be done.

Didn't White Wolf go out of business?

I hear the nWoD line was pretty solid though. Changeling in particular was supposed to be pretty boss.

You may be right about a beginner's box, but I'm still not convinced that a new core is such a bad idea.

Perhaps that will be their first dip into era splatbooks? Now that all 3 cores are out, they could do a TFA era and then an Old Republic era. I'm very excited to see what they do.

Could be! It won't be too long before all the career books for EotE are out, and following their current publication model, that will only leave adventures and setting books to fill out the line. Obviously it's not too big of a deal since they have two other lines to support, but eventually we'll have all the careers and the major regions covered. I'd guess most of that material will probably be released before Ep IX rolls around, and I'd imagine they'll want to keep publishing books.

The best option for me personally would be an adventure set in the TFA era since the only things I really want from that era are stats for the new vehicles and some adversary stats.

Didn't White Wolf go out of business?

I hear the nWoD line was pretty solid though. Changeling in particular was supposed to be pretty boss.

You may be right about a beginner's box, but I'm still not convinced that a new core is such a bad idea.

White Wolf was bought out by a company that put a higher priority than on video games than table top rpgs. Thus they let White Wolf go under. But the gaming line was then picked up by Onyx Path who recently released a 2nd Edition for the WoD line, continuing the previous set up started by WW and thus still supporting the overall point that was being made by bringing up the World of Darkness.

Didn't White Wolf go out of business?

I hear the nWoD line was pretty solid though. Changeling in particular was supposed to be pretty boss.

You may be right about a beginner's box, but I'm still not convinced that a new core is such a bad idea.

White Wolf was bought out by a company that put a higher priority than on video games than table top rpgs. Thus they let White Wolf go under. But the gaming line was then picked up by Onyx Path who recently released a 2nd Edition for the WoD line, continuing the previous set up started by WW and thus still supporting the overall point that was being made by bringing up the World of Darkness.

Let me start by saying, I wasn't trying to refute your point. I think the comparison's a good one and might be a well suited model for the Star Wars universe. My understanding is that a number of their games were designed as limited releases, and I wonder if that model might be a good fit too. We've seen 2/3 of the career books for EotE already released, and those seem to be doing a **** good job of covering the entire breadth of the games in question. Once the other two career books are released and there's a few more setting books on the shelves, I wonder how feasible it will be to continue putting out quality books for the setting.

That said, the WoD setting and Star Wars are entirely different beasts. The crossover between mechanics and flavor weren't nearly as redundant in the oWoD games as they are in the SW cores (or at least when looking at EotE and AoR, which are the two books I've managed to get a good look at), and they aren't designed as much for crossover (even moreso in nWoD, from what I understand). Rebels, outlaws, and jedi all playing together in the same sandbox is more or less an expected standard in SW, and these books are designed for cross-game balance. Trying to create a single core book that took a cross-section of vampires, werewolves, and mages would be insurmountable because their underlying playgrounds, themes, and mechanics are actually rather divergent. The WoD and SW models really aren't comparable. If FFG was to take a model where they had a vanilla book that explained the rough setting and mechanics, they wouldn't have the material for separate cores covering jedi/rebels/outlaws. All that material could be compressed together into a single second book.

Just as an aside, completely off topic, the way Onyx Path is doing things seems weird. They're releasing their tenth core book for the nWoD shortly and starting work on a 4th edition of oWoD. I hear the books are good, and I'm actually inclined to check them out now that I'm back into roleplaying again, but it seems strange.

That said, the WoD setting and Star Wars are entirely different beasts. The crossover between mechanics and flavor weren't nearly as redundant in the oWoD games as they are in the SW cores (or at least when looking at EotE and AoR, which are the two books I've managed to get a good look at), and they aren't designed as much for crossover (even moreso in nWoD, from what I understand). Rebels, outlaws, and jedi all playing together in the same sandbox is more or less an expected standard in SW, and these books are designed for cross-game balance. Trying to create a single core book that took a cross-section of vampires, werewolves, and mages would be insurmountable because their underlying playgrounds, themes, and mechanics are actually rather divergent. The WoD and SW models really aren't comparable. If FFG was to take a model where they had a vanilla book that explained the rough setting and mechanics, they wouldn't have the material for separate cores covering jedi/rebels/outlaws. All that material could be compressed together into a single second book.

Your confusing elements from OWoD with NWoD. Both N and O had pretty much the same basic set of mechanics. But where they really differ is that OWoD was not built to be cross over friendly. The games were balanced within themselves but no balance between the lines was made. NWoD on the other hand is compatable with each other. They all ran off the same basic Core rule book with each supernatural critter getting it's own book to develop those creatures. But the entire line was designed to be cross over friendly. While your point may be true for OWoD it isn't for NWoD, and NWoD was what was being refered to when the matter was brought up. OWoD didn't have a central core book afterall.

In a nutshell NWoD actually does what FFG set out to do only they did it somewhat better. Werewolf and Vampire were truly seperate games of which the material for each was just about that game while all drawing from the same core set of rules. Their model actual shows that FFG could have created a single core book for the basic rules and then done EotE, AoR, and F&D all as separate books with out having to reprint so much material and still make it work. Afterall NWoD has gone on 10 years now and is in it's second edition.

Thus the NWOD (which was what was brought up) and the SW models are comparable. That's why it was brought up. FFG could easily create a single core book and then explore the different themes in the same fashion that WoD did.The greater bulk of the material in all 3 cores is the same. Sure the books on EotE, AoR, and F&D would have been smaller doing it NWOD way but that isn't a bad thing when you consider the price of books.

That said, the WoD setting and Star Wars are entirely different beasts. The crossover between mechanics and flavor weren't nearly as redundant in the oWoD games as they are in the SW cores (or at least when looking at EotE and AoR, which are the two books I've managed to get a good look at), and they aren't designed as much for crossover (even moreso in nWoD, from what I understand). Rebels, outlaws, and jedi all playing together in the same sandbox is more or less an expected standard in SW, and these books are designed for cross-game balance. Trying to create a single core book that took a cross-section of vampires, werewolves, and mages would be insurmountable because their underlying playgrounds, themes, and mechanics are actually rather divergent. The WoD and SW models really aren't comparable. If FFG was to take a model where they had a vanilla book that explained the rough setting and mechanics, they wouldn't have the material for separate cores covering jedi/rebels/outlaws. All that material could be compressed together into a single second book.

Your confusing elements from OWoD with NWoD. Both N and O had pretty much the same basic set of mechanics. But where they really differ is that OWoD was not built to be cross over friendly. The games were balanced within themselves but no balance between the lines was made. NWoD on the other hand is compatable with each other. They all ran off the same basic Core rule book with each supernatural critter getting it's own book to develop those creatures. But the entire line was designed to be cross over friendly. While your point may be true for OWoD it isn't for NWoD, and NWoD was what was being refered to when the matter was brought up. OWoD didn't have a central core book afterall.

In a nutshell NWoD actually does what FFG set out to do only they did it somewhat better. Werewolf and Vampire were truly seperate games of which the material for each was just about that game while all drawing from the same core set of rules. Their model actual shows that FFG could have created a single core book for the basic rules and then done EotE, AoR, and F&D all as separate books with out having to reprint so much material and still make it work. Afterall NWoD has gone on 10 years now and is in it's second edition.

Thus the NWOD (which was what was brought up) and the SW models are comparable. That's why it was brought up. FFG could easily create a single core book and then explore the different themes in the same fashion that WoD did.The greater bulk of the material in all 3 cores is the same. Sure the books on EotE, AoR, and F&D would have been smaller doing it NWOD way but that isn't a bad thing when you consider the price of books.

I'd be way more inclined to invest in F&D and AoR if that had been the design. I'd be curious to see how they'd swing that though. The nWoD core, to my understanding, was designed to be a game in and of itself. You can buy just the core and play a group of normal people in a ****** up occult setting. I wonder if, in this hypothetical scenario, it would have been better for FFG to introduce broad careers not related to the three pillars, pillage 2 or 3 careers from each and then make up the difference by including more specializations in the secondary cores, or just not introduce the career system and make that base core a stripped down version of the entire system.

Interesting that nWoD was designed for more crossover. I figured they'd go the opposite route.

I'd be way more inclined to invest in F&D and AoR if that had been the design. I'd be curious to see how they'd swing that though. The nWoD core, to my understanding, was designed to be a game in and of itself. You can buy just the core and play a group of normal people in a ****** up occult setting. I wonder if, in this hypothetical scenario, it would have been better for FFG to introduce broad careers not related to the three pillars, pillage 2 or 3 careers from each and then make up the difference by including more specializations in the secondary cores, or just not introduce the career system and make that base core a stripped down version of the entire system.

Interesting that nWoD was designed for more crossover. I figured they'd go the opposite route.

Yeah the core book was made so you could play mortals, but they also had the core set of rules. The books for Vampire and the others didn't reprint the core rules. So for instance all the skills are in the core, all the combat rules are in the core etc etc. What's in the supernatural books are the rules specific to running that game.

Also going the cross over friendly route was a no brainer for them. People were always trying to do cross over games in oWoD with mixed results. When you realize that a portion of your player base wants to mix and match it is trivially easy to build the system so that they are friendly with each other.

I don't see why releasing a new game would be "alienating your customer base"...

The Star Wars Narative system RPG is complete as promised. You don't need anymore CRB's beyond the 3 released to be able to play it. Thus the promise to the "customer base" has been fulfilled and expectation should have been met.

Ok .... so I'm going to try this again.

A new CRB would be basically all the mechanical material we have now plus the setting info for Force Awaken. I don't have the books handy but the setting info in the current Core's can't be no more than 200 pages, if that. But basically they are going to reprint a large chunk of their rules. So this leads us down some alienating paths.

Well, the basic premise is flawed. I am not of a mind to think that if FFG would release a new CRB it would have to be of the same exact system. It could be of course but I am not sure it would have to be.

Alienation Path A: You've already bought 3 CRB's (at $60 a book) you don't see why you need to buy a 4th CRB just to gain a little bit of new info.

I don't see any alienation here. I see a chance for new players to step into a completely new game. I really don't see how you can call a jump ahead of 30+ years and a total new balance of powers, a host of new creatures, a different (stronger?) presence of the force, new planets, new fractions, etc. "A little bit of new information".

Alienation Path B: The proposed cherry pick option in which they pick some of the best elements of all three systems. This is going to aggravate people who paid $180 for Core material that is now being sold in slices at 1/3 the cost. If you charge your original fan base $180 and then charge new players only $60 you are going to alienate some of your customers. It also proves that they could have easily done a single core book all along and while many of us have bought all 3 books not everyone was sold on the wisdom of that idea. Knowing that it could have simply all be one book all along if they had only held out just one year longer is not going to sit well with some.

Totally agree, I would not see this work.

Alienation Path C: New players may think there is a bait and switch going on. Once they've been hoked by the FA core they may come to feel that they aren't getting the full Star Wars experience if they don't but some of the other cores. This will hold true especially in any situation where the the greater bulk of a new CRB is slimmed down version of the other 3. This is increased when you consider that if FFG doesn't go as deeply into the Force in an FA book then the customer will have to buy F&D to get the full Force rules and thus their new book which was supposed to be just $60 needs at least another $60 to make fully playable. Lets not kid ourselves, Force Awakens will feature the Force in a big way. There is no way around the messiness of releasing F&D and only putting in just a fraction of it's content into another book.

Yeah, I tend to lean more and more to the idea that we might be getting a "second edition" of sorts of the CRB's to account for the new movies. This way FFG can hold on to their initial plan and system and thus not "alienate anyone. Eventhough, I have to say, you seem pretty easy to alienate.

Also, nerd rage would ensure that no matter which approach they chose there would be someone getting worked up over it.

I'll just wait and see what happens but I am excited for the future of the game no matter what. I guess I am pretty much open to any scenario.

Since this whole line has been a huge hit with myself and those of my gaming group(s), almost anything will be purchased ... but that being said, I'd certainly prefer any new material to be in the format of a source book rather than a CRB. With the 3 CRB's we already have, we can play nearly any type of character in the Star Wars universe ... with a Force Awakens source book (or rather, a more generic naming of the time period), it could simply include ways to use those types of characters, gear, vehicles, locations, and force powers within the time frame of episode 7.

A lot of you seem to griping about having a 4th core book. So I have to ask the question: Do you really need every single core book?

I'm sure the answer for a lot of you will be, "yes, Harlock, I want them all!" Those of you in this camp probably feel you need every single aspect of the Star Wars universe (even though I would, again, argue that F&D is against the spirit of the OT) in order to fulfill all your roleplaying desires.

But...

There are others of us out here who are perfectly OK with just one line ... or maybe two. Personally, I only plan on purchasing the EotE material. So far, I have all of it, and I love it. The EotE setting seems absolutely perfect for those who grew up with the Brian Daley Han Solo books, the Lando Calrissian trilogy, the old Marvel SW comics, and the Droids cartoon. (Or those who have a GM who grew up with that stuff. Ha.)

So what's to say someone who's late to the party and gets jazzed about Star Wars again through watching the new flick will only care about Episode 7 (and presumably Episodes 8 and 9)? I would argue that this is incredibly likely!

Thus, I would assume we will see (a) a beginner game box with an emphasis on the new film, (b) a core book based on the new film setting, and (c ) eventual sourcebooks detailing additional stuff we'll see in Episodes 8 and 9. And I'm sure it will all be separate from (but workable with) the old core books.

There are others of us out here who are perfectly OK with just one line ... or maybe two.

Really, you think this is "incredibly likely"?

I think very few people are going to get their first exposure to Star Wars directly from the Force Awakens, and fewer still will not go back to watch the other three films (They only made three...). I think its odd so many people pushing for a new core believe TFA will somehow exist in a vacuum without the original trilogy.

I said this in the other thread.

The next three core books will tie into the prequel trilogy.

1. The Declining Republic-an age of unrest where organizations such as the banking clans are trying to use their vast resources to increase their wealth. The Republic is not what it used to be and relies heavily on the Jedi to solve many of their troubles. The Jedi, in turn, chafe under the weight of policing an entire galaxy.

2. The Clone Wars-the galaxy is at war. The Jedi lead cloned troops against the Seperatists and their droid armies. Intrigue and battles on many scales are taking place. Behind the scenes lurk the Sith and their minions directing the downfall of the Republic.

3. The Dark Times-the Empire rises. Jedi are all but gone in their entirety. Force-users are hunted by the Empire's forces be they stormtroopers or Inquisitors or other Sith minions. People against the Empire must hide or be brought in as traitors and jailed or executed. It is a dangerous time.

These books will take us close, if not to, episode 10. At which point FFG will begin bringing out core books based on the sequel trilogy. The first of which will be the New Destinies CRB.

I will be stunned if they do another core rulebook. It would irritate a lot of the existing playerbase and I don't think it will draw in that many players. Just do a sourcebook and make sure it prominently displays "an Edge of the Empire Sourcebook" on it, perhaps with some tie in to buy an existing core book.

I could see them doing a new beginner box featuring the new movie setting..

I said this in the other thread.

The next three core books will tie into the prequel trilogy.

1. The Declining Republic-an age of unrest where organizations such as the banking clans are trying to use their vast resources to increase their wealth. The Republic is not what it used to be and relies heavily on the Jedi to solve many of their troubles. The Jedi, in turn, chafe under the weight of policing an entire galaxy.

2. The Clone Wars-the galaxy is at war. The Jedi lead cloned troops against the Seperatists and their droid armies. Intrigue and battles on many scales are taking place. Behind the scenes lurk the Sith and their minions directing the downfall of the Republic.

3. The Dark Times-the Empire rises. Jedi are all but gone in their entirety. Force-users are hunted by the Empire's forces be they stormtroopers or Inquisitors or other Sith minions. People against the Empire must hide or be brought in as traitors and jailed or executed. It is a dangerous time.

These books will take us close, if not to, episode 10. At which point FFG will begin bringing out core books based on the sequel trilogy. The first of which will be the New Destinies CRB.

Three more core books, based (mostly) on the prequels? I'd like to see a show of hands for that...