I would really like to see FFG cover other eras of the Star Wars story, including new trilogy and prequel trilogy. I'm not interested in another core book for those eras but I'd love "beginner" boxes and splat books.

It will be a core book for the simple reason that someone new to Star Wars RPG's, drawn in to try it for the first time, is not going to be buying EotE, AoR or F&D just to be able to play an Ep 7 book.

It will be a core book so that people can just start playing in the Ep 7 timeline right off the bat without the need for anything else.

And since it's a core book, you can bet your butt that there'll be a beginners set and a game masters kit as well.

I simply cannot see it done any other way from a business standpoint.

(no matter how much we would like it to be otherwise)

Also, as far as we know, the setting might be different enough to actually warrant a core book instead of just a sourcebook.

This is mostly my reasoning as well. It would be counterproductive vis-a-vis "acquiring" new customers fresh from the movie theaters to make some rulebooks mandatory for play when they're set 30 years prior to the movie they just saw. I agree completely that a new set of core rules woulnd't be of much interest to the existing fan base, but I don't think the existing fanbase would be the primary target for a book like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would absolutely be a market for some kind of sourcebook that deals with what the galaxy looks like 30 years into the future. And FFG might very well do both; a core book for new players just getting into Star Wars from the new movie(s), and an era sourcebook for those of us who are already hooked anyway.

seeing as how they have been given next to zero information on what will be in the movie they really can't do a core. And a core for them means a year of internal writing and testing followed by a beta and adjustments for 6 months or so followed by a few months finalizing the book and then releasing the book. This process takes too long to use the movie buzz to propel it. That would be a core book 2 years from now. I don't think that is a good investment of FFG's time.

You mean just in time for the buzz for the second movie?

And you're wrong. The rules will basically still be the same, so not alot of beta testing is needed. Certainly not on the level of the previous core books.

Look at it as a source book with the core rules tacked on.

It's not about them coming up with new rules.

It's about new players not having to buy the old books to play in the new setting.

So I'm 100% sure it will be a core rulebook.

And I'm also sure that anyone that's already bought more than one core book will splash out the dough to get that core book if they want to play in that setting.

They might whine about it, but they'll still buy it.

(At least they probably won't bring out 3 separate core rulebooks to play in that one setting, unlike this setting which has 3 different ones)

I guess I'll be in the minority but ..... I can't justify $60 just for setting info. The rules would need to be very different from the other 3 books to convince me to buy into yet another core book. Unless the world of Force Awakens is so radically different that it needs to be it's own core I just don't see a lot of older players buying into it. JJ is going to have deliver the decades best film in that case.

I honestly don't think FFG is interested in doing anything other than the OT. I don't see them venturing off with more core books or setting books. They have a niche here and I think they are happy with it. If they were really interested in setting books or anything outside of the OT I think we'd of seen hints of a PT books, which are a known quantity and thus easier to produce gaming products for as opposed to the NT which will be six years before their complete. I forsee the only Force Awaken stuff we'll see will be in the mini's which doesn't require much more than to make some new ships.

Of course YOU can't justify 60 buck for that... YOU are not the target audience.

I'm sorry to say, but an Ep. VII core book would not be made for the people already playing the game.

It would be made to catch all the new people drawn in by the buzz of the movie.

As for FFG not being interested in the Ep. VII, they're already set to release a new starter set for x-wing, so I'd say they have interest.

The prequels are largely disliked by many star wars fans, so it makes sense to not invest in that.

(besides, it would be horribly bad business to not capitalize on the buzz from the movie)

It will be a core book for the simple reason that someone new to Star Wars RPG's, drawn in to try it for the first time, is not going to be buying EotE, AoR or F&D just to be able to play an Ep 7 book.

It will be a core book so that people can just start playing in the Ep 7 timeline right off the bat without the need for anything else.

And since it's a core book, you can bet your butt that there'll be a beginners set and a game masters kit as well.

I simply cannot see it done any other way from a business standpoint.

(no matter how much we would like it to be otherwise)

Also, as far as we know, the setting might be different enough to actually warrant a core book instead of just a sourcebook.

This is mostly my reasoning as well. It would be counterproductive vis-a-vis "acquiring" new customers fresh from the movie theaters to make some rulebooks mandatory for play when they're set 30 years prior to the movie they just saw. I agree completely that a new set of core rules woulnd't be of much interest to the existing fan base, but I don't think the existing fanbase would be the primary target for a book like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would absolutely be a market for some kind of sourcebook that deals with what the galaxy looks like 30 years into the future. And FFG might very well do both; a core book for new players just getting into Star Wars from the new movie(s), and an era sourcebook for those of us who are already hooked anyway.

seeing as how they have been given next to zero information on what will be in the movie they really can't do a core. And a core for them means a year of internal writing and testing followed by a beta and adjustments for 6 months or so followed by a few months finalizing the book and then releasing the book. This process takes too long to use the movie buzz to propel it. That would be a core book 2 years from now. I don't think that is a good investment of FFG's time.

Well the rules are done. It would mostly be the fluff that would need to be updated. Maybe a few vehicle stats.

True. But the recent Order 66 podcast says no... it will not be happening.

What did they say exactly?

Because I'm not going to listen to a 3 hour long podcast just for that :/

They should have gladiatorial pit fights instead.

It's like Star Wars Pon Farr: every 3 years, Star Wars Nerds have to fight for toys!

It will be a core book for the simple reason that someone new to Star Wars RPG's, drawn in to try it for the first time, is not going to be buying EotE, AoR or F&D just to be able to play an Ep 7 book.

It will be a core book so that people can just start playing in the Ep 7 timeline right off the bat without the need for anything else.

And since it's a core book, you can bet your butt that there'll be a beginners set and a game masters kit as well.

I simply cannot see it done any other way from a business standpoint.

(no matter how much we would like it to be otherwise)

Also, as far as we know, the setting might be different enough to actually warrant a core book instead of just a sourcebook.

This is mostly my reasoning as well. It would be counterproductive vis-a-vis "acquiring" new customers fresh from the movie theaters to make some rulebooks mandatory for play when they're set 30 years prior to the movie they just saw. I agree completely that a new set of core rules woulnd't be of much interest to the existing fan base, but I don't think the existing fanbase would be the primary target for a book like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would absolutely be a market for some kind of sourcebook that deals with what the galaxy looks like 30 years into the future. And FFG might very well do both; a core book for new players just getting into Star Wars from the new movie(s), and an era sourcebook for those of us who are already hooked anyway.

seeing as how they have been given next to zero information on what will be in the movie they really can't do a core. And a core for them means a year of internal writing and testing followed by a beta and adjustments for 6 months or so followed by a few months finalizing the book and then releasing the book. This process takes too long to use the movie buzz to propel it. That would be a core book 2 years from now. I don't think that is a good investment of FFG's time.

You mean just in time for the buzz for the second movie?

And you're wrong. The rules will basically still be the same, so not alot of beta testing is needed. Certainly not on the level of the previous core books.

Look at it as a source book with the core rules tacked on.

It's not about them coming up with new rules.

It's about new players not having to buy the old books to play in the new setting.

They may be. But as Sam Stewart said. No visit by the Lucas Film people. So they jave no more info than we have on things. Which to me says no book yet.

It will be a core book for the simple reason that someone new to Star Wars RPG's, drawn in to try it for the first time, is not going to be buying EotE, AoR or F&D just to be able to play an Ep 7 book.

It will be a core book so that people can just start playing in the Ep 7 timeline right off the bat without the need for anything else.

And since it's a core book, you can bet your butt that there'll be a beginners set and a game masters kit as well.

I simply cannot see it done any other way from a business standpoint.

(no matter how much we would like it to be otherwise)

Also, as far as we know, the setting might be different enough to actually warrant a core book instead of just a sourcebook.

This is mostly my reasoning as well. It would be counterproductive vis-a-vis "acquiring" new customers fresh from the movie theaters to make some rulebooks mandatory for play when they're set 30 years prior to the movie they just saw. I agree completely that a new set of core rules woulnd't be of much interest to the existing fan base, but I don't think the existing fanbase would be the primary target for a book like that.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would absolutely be a market for some kind of sourcebook that deals with what the galaxy looks like 30 years into the future. And FFG might very well do both; a core book for new players just getting into Star Wars from the new movie(s), and an era sourcebook for those of us who are already hooked anyway.

seeing as how they have been given next to zero information on what will be in the movie they really can't do a core. And a core for them means a year of internal writing and testing followed by a beta and adjustments for 6 months or so followed by a few months finalizing the book and then releasing the book. This process takes too long to use the movie buzz to propel it. That would be a core book 2 years from now. I don't think that is a good investment of FFG's time.

Well the rules are done. It would mostly be the fluff that would need to be updated. Maybe a few vehicle stats.

True. But the recent Order 66 podcast says no... it will not be happening.

What did they say exactly?

Because I'm not going to listen to a 3 hour long podcast just for that :/

They said a lot of stuff. But Sam basically said they did not get any info on the new movie. i recommend listening because a lot of real good info.

Of course YOU can't justify 60 buck for that... YOU are not the target audience.

I'm sorry to say, but an Ep. VII core book would not be made for the people already playing the game.

It would be made to catch all the new people drawn in by the buzz of the movie.

As for FFG not being interested in the Ep. VII, they're already set to release a new starter set for x-wing, so I'd say they have interest.

The prequels are largely disliked by many star wars fans, so it makes sense to not invest in that.

(besides, it would be horribly bad business to not capitalize on the buzz from the movie)

I honestly don't think FFG would attract enough new players to justify a $60 core book and an entire new line devoted to that core book. Doing a core book for Ep 7 isn't just a matter of doing a book to attract new players on the buzz, it's a commitment to an entire line of books. Such a commitment would have to appeal to more than just the new movie buzz. Also unless they release said book in December they won't be cashing in on the new movie buzz. They would be releasing a new core book anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie is out and the buzz around Ep 7 has died down and people have moved on to Batman V Superman and Disney's other cash cow the MCU. So this hypothetical new core would have to stand out extremely well to new fans in a time period when buzz around Ep 7 is dieing and the new fans are moving onto other new things. Thus the core audience would still be us, and they would have to convince us that it's worth it in order to sustane a new line for the life of the new trilogy.

Also the PT is not universally hated. It has it's fan. And it spawned the insanely popular Clone Wars animated series. That alone would be a worthwhile venture. If they were doing new core books for new era's or if they had any interest in anything outside of the OT they could easily do a core around the Clone Wars and do very well for themselves. Their overall lack of interest in things outside of the OT seems to indicate that they, overall, likely have no interest in doing stuff outside of the OT.

And as a side point I already stated that they were interested in doing Ep 7 stuff. I ended my post basically saying thier only interest in EP 7 seems to be the mini's line (which seems to be the only thing they are producing to cash in on the Ep 7 buzz). But an interest in the mini's doesn't mean they'll extend it to the RPG line.

Basically FFG isn't cashing in on the Ep 7 buzz, not for the rpg. I wouldn't consider a product that would come out anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie as cashing in on the buzz. By the time an Ep 7 core would come out the buzz is dead. You're right, it would be insane not to cash in on the buzz. Their lack of products for the RPG that ties into Ep 7 indicates that they seem to have no interest in Ep 7 in terms of the rpg.

I also don't think it would be that big of a business deal to make a sourcebook as opposed to a core. A new core requires reprinting the exact same information you're already selling and possibly alienating your core audience. Business wise it's not a smart move. At least it's not a smart move 6 months to a year after the buzz of the movie has died down. The time for that risk is now, when Ep 7 is hot and people are buying up anything Star Wars in prep for Dec. Not August 2016 when we're all gearing up for the next round of Avengers movies.

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

Whether people want to admit it or not, the "Beginners" products are most similar to the X-wing starter sets.

Do you know what's actually in the X-wing starter set?

3 ships.

ONE X-wing and two TIEs. That's it. Doesn't exactly qualify it as a rewarding experience "right out of the box".

They have the materials you need to play, show you the basics of the game, and then point you at the market place so you can actually buy what you need to play the full game. No how do the beginners boxes work? They show you the basics, give you the bare essentials, and then point you to the market so you can buy what you need actually play the game.

The box set just needs to say:

"Hey if you like the Jedi in this game and dig Kylo Ren/Finn, you should get F&D

If you like seeing Han Solo and [insert new 'fringey' character, Rey?], then you should check out EotE

And if you liked Poe Dameron in the X-wing, AoR is your cup of tea.

And guess what, they all work together, so you can expand your collection later if you want.'

The end.

If you want to label yourself a chump that's willing to fork out another $60, then fine, but you can't speak for everyone here.

I will not buy another core book for this system. Period.

I signed on for the "Three games" system since the day it was announced, and that's as far as I'm going. If they release a new core book that has some novel information in it, then I'm going to pirate it. I don't pirate RPGs, but this will push me over the edge. I doubt I'll be the only one that feels that way, but I'm not going to make any kind of generalizations about the other people.

Finally, and this is just simple math: Even if the new movie(s) DOUBLE the size of the player base (which is incredibly unlikely), the current players will still make up half their market, which is huge. So, what people "want" here actually should matter to FFG.

They may be. But as Sam Stewart said. No visit by the Lucas Film people. So they jave no more info than we have on things. Which to me says no book yet.

They said a lot of stuff. But Sam basically said they did not get any info on the new movie. i recommend listening because a lot of real good info.

Well yeah, I'm not debating if there will be a book at launch or not.

I'm simply debating that WHEN there will be a book, it will be a core book, not a supplement.

Of course YOU can't justify 60 buck for that... YOU are not the target audience.

I'm sorry to say, but an Ep. VII core book would not be made for the people already playing the game.

It would be made to catch all the new people drawn in by the buzz of the movie.

As for FFG not being interested in the Ep. VII, they're already set to release a new starter set for x-wing, so I'd say they have interest.

The prequels are largely disliked by many star wars fans, so it makes sense to not invest in that.

(besides, it would be horribly bad business to not capitalize on the buzz from the movie)

I honestly don't think FFG would attract enough new players to justify a $60 core book and an entire new line devoted to that core book. Doing a core book for Ep 7 isn't just a matter of doing a book to attract new players on the buzz, it's a commitment to an entire line of books. Such a commitment would have to appeal to more than just the new movie buzz. Also unless they release said book in December they won't be cashing in on the new movie buzz. They would be releasing a new core book anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie is out and the buzz around Ep 7 has died down and people have moved on to Batman V Superman and Disney's other cash cow the MCU. So this hypothetical new core would have to stand out extremely well to new fans in a time period when buzz around Ep 7 is dieing and the new fans are moving onto other new things. Thus the core audience would still be us, and they would have to convince us that it's worth it in order to sustane a new line for the life of the new trilogy.

Also the PT is not universally hated. It has it's fan. And it spawned the insanely popular Clone Wars animated series. That alone would be a worthwhile venture. If they were doing new core books for new era's or if they had any interest in anything outside of the OT they could easily do a core around the Clone Wars and do very well for themselves. Their overall lack of interest in things outside of the OT seems to indicate that they, overall, likely have no interest in doing stuff outside of the OT.

And as a side point I already stated that they were interested in doing Ep 7 stuff. I ended my post basically saying thier only interest in EP 7 seems to be the mini's line (which seems to be the only thing they are producing to cash in on the Ep 7 buzz). But an interest in the mini's doesn't mean they'll extend it to the RPG line.

Basically FFG isn't cashing in on the Ep 7 buzz, not for the rpg. I wouldn't consider a product that would come out anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie as cashing in on the buzz. By the time an Ep 7 core would come out the buzz is dead. You're right, it would be insane not to cash in on the buzz. Their lack of products for the RPG that ties into Ep 7 indicates that they seem to have no interest in Ep 7 in terms of the rpg.

I also don't think it would be that big of a business deal to make a sourcebook as opposed to a core. A new core requires reprinting the exact same information you're already selling and possibly alienating your core audience. Business wise it's not a smart move. At least it's not a smart move 6 months to a year after the buzz of the movie has died down. The time for that risk is now, when Ep 7 is hot and people are buying up anything Star Wars in prep for Dec. Not August 2016 when we're all gearing up for the next round of Avengers movies.

I think you severely underestimate the buzz of the new series of films.

It's not just Ep. VII, it's three other films as well plus Ep. VIII and IX. There will be a new star wars film each year.

Alot of new fans that were too young to watch the prequels in the cinema are now old enough to not only watch Ep. VII in the cinema, but also buy an RPG to play in that setting. The Ep. VII setting will be their "introduction to star wars" in many cases.

I feel that your view is tainted by the fact that you've been a star wars fan for a long time.

New fans will invariably want to play in the setting that introduced them to star wars on the big screen, because that will have the biggest impact on them.

Sure, the prequels had its fans, I never said it was universally hated. And the Clone Wars was liked by some, hated by others.

You don't really get that with the Originals. I've never met a star wars fan that loves the prequels but hates the Originals (sure, the occasional "the old ones look goofy" or the like, but never the hate that you get from some SW fans about the prequels).

So making a core rulebook for the Prequel era is not a sound investment (given that they know how much hatred there is for it from many fans).

Besides, the prequels are closer to the FFG RPG era than the Ep. VII+ setting is.

In fact, many of the weapons and ships that were in the prequel era are actually already in the game.

My point here is that they can either make it a sourcebook or a core book.

Source book is good for the people who already have the core books and are already customers.

Core book is good for the people who are new customers drawn in by the new movie(s).

It makes more sense to make a core book that can draw in the new customers than a source book that appeases the old customers.

Especially considering that many of the old customers will buy it anyway, despite being a core book. (as evidenced by the fact that many of us have already bought 2-3 books with the same rules and just added fluff for specific settings.)

As a sidenote, you could look at the Mad Max computer game being released just now, which is 4 months after the movie was released.

And it's still getting alot of buzz.

Hell, the buzz from Mad Max Fury Road hasn't died out yet.

You're definately underestimating the buzz generated by the first star wars movie in 10 years.

If the movie is even remotely decent, it will have a huge buzz for months after its release.

Of course YOU can't justify 60 buck for that... YOU are not the target audience.

I'm sorry to say, but an Ep. VII core book would not be made for the people already playing the game.

It would be made to catch all the new people drawn in by the buzz of the movie.

As for FFG not being interested in the Ep. VII, they're already set to release a new starter set for x-wing, so I'd say they have interest.

The prequels are largely disliked by many star wars fans, so it makes sense to not invest in that.

(besides, it would be horribly bad business to not capitalize on the buzz from the movie)

I honestly don't think FFG would attract enough new players to justify a $60 core book and an entire new line devoted to that core book. Doing a core book for Ep 7 isn't just a matter of doing a book to attract new players on the buzz, it's a commitment to an entire line of books. Such a commitment would have to appeal to more than just the new movie buzz. Also unless they release said book in December they won't be cashing in on the new movie buzz. They would be releasing a new core book anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie is out and the buzz around Ep 7 has died down and people have moved on to Batman V Superman and Disney's other cash cow the MCU. So this hypothetical new core would have to stand out extremely well to new fans in a time period when buzz around Ep 7 is dieing and the new fans are moving onto other new things. Thus the core audience would still be us, and they would have to convince us that it's worth it in order to sustane a new line for the life of the new trilogy.

Also the PT is not universally hated. It has it's fan. And it spawned the insanely popular Clone Wars animated series. That alone would be a worthwhile venture. If they were doing new core books for new era's or if they had any interest in anything outside of the OT they could easily do a core around the Clone Wars and do very well for themselves. Their overall lack of interest in things outside of the OT seems to indicate that they, overall, likely have no interest in doing stuff outside of the OT.

And as a side point I already stated that they were interested in doing Ep 7 stuff. I ended my post basically saying thier only interest in EP 7 seems to be the mini's line (which seems to be the only thing they are producing to cash in on the Ep 7 buzz). But an interest in the mini's doesn't mean they'll extend it to the RPG line.

Basically FFG isn't cashing in on the Ep 7 buzz, not for the rpg. I wouldn't consider a product that would come out anywhere from 6 months to a year after the movie as cashing in on the buzz. By the time an Ep 7 core would come out the buzz is dead. You're right, it would be insane not to cash in on the buzz. Their lack of products for the RPG that ties into Ep 7 indicates that they seem to have no interest in Ep 7 in terms of the rpg.

I also don't think it would be that big of a business deal to make a sourcebook as opposed to a core. A new core requires reprinting the exact same information you're already selling and possibly alienating your core audience. Business wise it's not a smart move. At least it's not a smart move 6 months to a year after the buzz of the movie has died down. The time for that risk is now, when Ep 7 is hot and people are buying up anything Star Wars in prep for Dec. Not August 2016 when we're all gearing up for the next round of Avengers movies.

I think you severely underestimate the buzz of the new series of films.

It's not just Ep. VII, it's three other films as well plus Ep. VIII and IX. There will be a new star wars film each year.

Alot of new fans that were too young to watch the prequels in the cinema are now old enough to not only watch Ep. VII in the cinema, but also buy an RPG to play in that setting. The Ep. VII setting will be their "introduction to star wars" in many cases.

I feel that your view is tainted by the fact that you've been a star wars fan for a long time.

New fans will invariably want to play in the setting that introduced them to star wars on the big screen, because that will have the biggest impact on them.

Sure, the prequels had its fans, I never said it was universally hated. And the Clone Wars was liked by some, hated by others.

You don't really get that with the Originals. I've never met a star wars fan that loves the prequels but hates the Originals (sure, the occasional "the old ones look goofy" or the like, but never the hate that you get from some SW fans about the prequels).

So making a core rulebook for the Prequel era is not a sound investment (given that they know how much hatred there is for it from many fans).

Besides, the prequels are closer to the FFG RPG era than the Ep. VII+ setting is.

In fact, many of the weapons and ships that were in the prequel era are actually already in the game.

My point here is that they can either make it a sourcebook or a core book.

Source book is good for the people who already have the core books and are already customers.

Core book is good for the people who are new customers drawn in by the new movie(s).

It makes more sense to make a core book that can draw in the new customers than a source book that appeases the old customers.

Especially considering that many of the old customers will buy it anyway, despite being a core book. (as evidenced by the fact that many of us have already bought 2-3 books with the same rules and just added fluff for specific settings.)

As a sidenote, you could look at the Mad Max computer game being released just now, which is 4 months after the movie was released.

And it's still getting alot of buzz.

Hell, the buzz from Mad Max Fury Road hasn't died out yet.

You're definately underestimating the buzz generated by the first star wars movie in 10 years.

If the movie is even remotely decent, it will have a huge buzz for months after its release.

I think you fail to grasp the reality of game publishing. In order to have come out with a core book in time for the film they would have had to have been working on i at the same time they were working on Force and Destiny. FFG has pretty much specifically said they do not have an RPG product at this time. Sam Stewart said they do not have any more info than the rest of us for the film. So they can not make a core book at this time. They can't even make a source book at this time. As they know nothing about what is in the film. They made an X-Wing Core set. But that just requires making stats for 2 ships. That we knew about quite a while ago. Which precludes using the buzz from this film. And once they see the movie it takes about a year from the time they start writing a book to the time the book is released per conversations I have had with freelancers. So maybe they will have a source book next September.

There is also the fact that another core book would piss off a lot of fans. Especially the ones that already ***** about their being 3 core books. I can see the hundred page thread of people fighting about their being another core book.

So I can see the apeal of another core book. I just don't see it happening. Not when you do the math of what is involved and how their current customers would react.

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

The other important difference? A new X-Wing starter is a repaint of two existing models, new box art and some new card text and art. Relitivly speaking, that's pretty simple compared to a book that is 80% brand new text.

Instead of a new "real" core rule book, they could make a book of the same format (in terms of numbers of pages and price) which would be a compendium of several important era of star wars (perhaps including both era like the clone wars or more ancients, and the setting from the new movies to make it interresting to more people) , with all the informations, specifics rules and equipement needed to play them.

I would love something like that, even if it would definitly not, be made before the second or third movie.

Three new CRBs, one based on each of the three new movies. Bend over, fanboys, grab your wallets, shove another cinderblock under your makeshift basement bookshelf because it's about to get even heavier...

*facepalm* I've already shifted stuff around on my rpg bookshelf... looks like PFRPG is being put into storage instead!

I think you fail to grasp the reality of game publishing. In order to have come out with a core book in time for the film they would have had to have been working on i at the same time they were working on Force and Destiny.

Who here said anything about a new product being released along side the movie release?

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

Whether people want to admit it or not, the "Beginners" products are most similar to the X-wing starter sets.

Do you know what's actually in the X-wing starter set?

3 ships.

ONE X-wing and two TIEs. That's it. Doesn't exactly qualify it as a rewarding experience "right out of the box".

No. It has the rules, the full rules. Not the basics. It gives you the measuring devices, the basic game set up and the dice. It is the game you buy and it comes with 3 ships.

As a business plan a new core still seems like the only smart announcement to make.

No, it doesn't. Anyone interested in a Star Wars RPG is already interested in this game. It's not like Star Wars is a new IP. The beginners boxes are what are going to pull new players in, especially since they'll include the dice ($15 for a half set is a scam). Everyone pushing a new core set seems to believe there's this vast untapped market of people who don't realize they want a Star Wars RPG and will have some kind of epiphany when they see TFA, but, IMO, that's a hallucination.

Four of the six people I play RPG's with picked up gaming in the last 2 years. They are in their 30's.

New RPG players get into the hobby everyday.

And finally, I really hate opinions like this:

Dude, settle down... We are having a normal conversation here.

Also what people here 'want' should not influence anything at all for them because I am pretty certain each and everyone of us would buy a $60 dollar CRB no matter what. Thus they would have new and old fans buying it. Especially since it would be a 450 page book for $60 instead of a $40 region book that have thus far been 150 pages. I'd pay it in a heartbeat...

If you want to label yourself a chump that's willing to fork out another $60, then fine, but you can't speak for everyone here.

No reason to get rude. I am not speaking for everyone, nor was I claiming to be. I said that I was sure people would buy it. I still am. But I wasn't speaking for you as that would involve being crass and rude and I don't feel like that. And we are talking about a $20 price difference you would be unwilling to pay not a $60 price difference. Which is your right of course, your money, do with it would you like.

I will not buy another core book for this system. Period.

Good for you. I would.

I signed on for the "Three games" system since the day it was announced, and that's as far as I'm going. If they release a new core book that has some novel information in it, then I'm going to pirate it.

I don't pirate RPGs, but this will push me over the edge.

Finally, and this is just simple math: Even if the new movie(s) DOUBLE the size of the player base (which is incredibly unlikely), the current players will still make up half their market, which is huge. So, what people "want" here actually should matter to FFG.

Yes, this is simple math indeed. If it would double their player base they'd be fools not doing it.

But I am sure your "I will steal your stuff" will change their mind if they were planning on doing it.

I think you fail to grasp the reality of game publishing. In order to have come out with a core book in time for the film they would have had to have been working on i at the same time they were working on Force and Destiny. FFG has pretty much specifically said they do not have an RPG product at this time. Sam Stewart said they do not have any more info than the rest of us for the film. So they can not make a core book at this time. They can't even make a source book at this time. As they know nothing about what is in the film. They made an X-Wing Core set. But that just requires making stats for 2 ships. That we knew about quite a while ago. Which precludes using the buzz from this film. And once they see the movie it takes about a year from the time they start writing a book to the time the book is released per conversations I have had with freelancers. So maybe they will have a source book next September.

There is also the fact that another core book would piss off a lot of fans. Especially the ones that already ***** about their being 3 core books. I can see the hundred page thread of people fighting about their being another core book.

So I can see the apeal of another core book. I just don't see it happening. Not when you do the math of what is involved and how their current customers would react.

I'm going to be a bit rude here, but I think you fail to grasp the reality of reading.

I have never stated that they'd be releasing a new core book with the release of the film.

In fact, the very post you quoted was a discussion about how they could release it long after the film and still capitalize on the buzz of the film.

Now, I have to admit that I simply skipped the rest of your post due to the fact that you seemed to completely misread me, so if you have any important arguments to my actual posts, feel free to re-post them.

I like the idea of a beginner box set set in an era for example a clone wars version alongside an Force Awakens one, but which is doable at this stage?

The Clone Wars version at least you have the information to work on whilst to have anything Force Awakens based at this stage would probably only merit a PDF along the lines of either that black sun adventure they made available a couple of years ago or that Rescue from Glare Point which is still only available at conventions only so which is more likely to you?

I think you severely underestimate the buzz of the new series of films.

It's not just Ep. VII, it's three other films as well plus Ep. VIII and IX. There will be a new star wars film each year.

Alot of new fans that were too young to watch the prequels in the cinema are now old enough to not only watch Ep. VII in the cinema, but also buy an RPG to play in that setting. The Ep. VII setting will be their "introduction to star wars" in many cases.

No, I'm not underestimating the buzz. But FFG doesn't get pre info about the movies. So it will always be making products that are years after the initial movie buzz. That means that each time they come out with a core book for this movie set they are doing so at a time when the new fans they are targeting have already moved onto other new things. The new fans that are going to remain a year after the movie comes out are the kind of fans that would already play EotE, AoR and F&D. Also those other three movies you brought up don't do anything for the Force Awaken buzz. Those three movies are being set during the OT period. Thus they support the current line and do nothing to promote a brand new Force Awakens line.

I feel that your view is tainted by the fact that you've been a star wars fan for a long time.

New fans will invariably want to play in the setting that introduced them to star wars on the big screen, because that will have the biggest impact on them.

My view is tainted by market realities. It has less to do about fan hood more to do with what I expect a reasonable audience to do. The new fans that Force Awakens draws in will either move into EotE, AoR, and F&D. Some may stick around for a new core a year later but not certainly not enough to sustain an entire new line on their own. This will mean that they will need their core audience too or the line will just die. 6 months to a year later isn't cashing in on the buzz. They may be able to cash in on the Ep VIII buzz if they released a Force Awaken book down the road but that means that Force Awakens needs to be really good.

Which doesn't change the fact that they would also run the risk for alienating their current fan base. I just don't see the risk being profitable a year from now. I see it profitable now when everyone is on the Force Awakens hype. This time next year we'll be on the Rogue squadron hype, but that doesn't support the Force Awakens hype and FFG already has a product that will cash in on that.

New fans may want to play in the setting that drew them in but a new core book won't be out at the time that the excitement for that setting is at it's peak. It will be out when the setting interest is at the low end, as these new fans will be drawn into other new things (like the MCU) or be drawn towards the OT stuff with the new spin off movie.

In other words ..... FFG isn't handling this in a way that would allow them to cash in on new fan hype. Anything produced a year from now is not going to be hitting the new fan hype and anyone still interested in playing in Star Wars rpg a year from now could be easily drawn into the current line, a process made all the easier when these new fans go to see the new movie based on the time frame that the current line is set in.

So making a core rulebook for the Prequel era is not a sound investment (given that they know how much hatred there is for it from many fans).

Besides, the prequels are closer to the FFG RPG era than the Ep. VII+ setting is.

In fact, many of the weapons and ships that were in the prequel era are actually already in the game.

This argument works against an Ep VII core book. Honestly how different do you think the weapons, ships, and tech is going to be between Ep VI and VII? The only difference will be setting info. Ep VII still uses Ties, X Wings and hell the Millennium Falcon.

As a sidenote, you could look at the Mad Max computer game being released just now, which is 4 months after the movie was released.

And it's still getting alot of buzz.

Hell, the buzz from Mad Max Fury Road hasn't died out yet.

You're definately underestimating the buzz generated by the first star wars movie in 10 years.

If the movie is even remotely decent, it will have a huge buzz for months after its release.

Mad Max is a different beast. For starters Mad Max won't be competing against itself. Secondly the Mad Max game can be resold for a new video game later (something you can't do with the rpg) once your interest in that dies down. The video game doesn't require you to have other friends interested. And most important the Mad Max game and the movie itself are all benefiting from the fall movie lull. There is nothing for it to compete with right now. No major film is coming till November. It's easy to maintain buzz when there is nothing to draw their attention away. Buzz for Ep VII six months down the road will be up against Batman v Superman and Disney's other cash cow the MCU, namely Captain America Civil War. Completely different landscape between six months after Ep VII and six months after Mad Max.

There's also the fact that Disney will yo yo the new fans between the OT era and their NT era. Thus, again, by the time a new core comes out the new fans that are the target audience are already eating up the Age of Rebellion book material.

A core book just doesn't seem logical. And it's core audience aren't going to be hyped up on Ep VII when they have Batman V Superman, Civil War and Rogue One to devour.

I have no idea if we are getting a new CRB or not. I didn't think we needed three to begin with so what the heck do I know.

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

The other important difference? A new X-Wing starter is a repaint of two existing models, new box art and some new card text and art. Relitivly speaking, that's pretty simple compared to a book that is 80% brand new text.

A) They are not repaints, or at least the X-Wing isn't. They fully sculpted and produced models that look exactly like the X-Wing in the trailer, which we know is not the same X-Wing from the OT. An obvious tip off is the engine configuration. The TIE Fighter might just be a repaint. I would need to hold them side by side to see if the First Order TIE required a new mold.

B) The new ships are completely different than the OT counterparts as far as the game is concerned. This required full playtesting. In other words, the OT X-Wing and new X-Wing are not cross compatible as far as pilots. They have their own pilots, their own stats, and their own maneuver dials.

C) Speaking of maneuver dials, the new X-Wing has a completely brand new maneuver. Something that would require a good amount of playtesting.

D) They produced a new damage deck, which would be the equivalent of them making a full new critical hit table for the RPG. Again, something requiring a good amount of play testing

E) They introduced new asteroid obstacles. They are shaped differently than the ones found in the original core set. Again, something that probably requires some playtesting (especially since now players can bring any 3 obstacles they choose), though admittedly likely not as much as brand new ships or a new damage deck.

F) They completely rewrote the rule book in an entirely new format. It now mirrors what was found in Armada (and is similar to what you find in Settlers of Catan). You get a "Learn to Play" booklet that walks you through a beginner game. Then you have a "Rules Reference" book that is essentially an alphabetical listing of all important game concepts and rules that relate to them.

G) They developed and introduced a brand new upgrade type. It isn't applicable to older ships, but it implies they had several ideas and things they felt they could add that were unique enough to warrant a new type of upgrade.

This new X-Wing core set was a full on production and would have taken them most of their usual 9-12 month time frame for development of new products.

EDIT:

The major difference is that the X-Wing products require very little plot knowledge. I'm sure they got a description of how the new X-Wing and TIE are better than the original, or they made educated guesses. The only name found in the whole thing is Poe Dameron, which was known when the trailer came out last year. They probably got access to production specs for the new X-Wing and TIE fighters to make accurate sculptures. Aside from that, nothing else was needed from Disney to make the product.

An RPG book would require much more knowledge not even of the plot, but of the setting. The people, places, and things. That stuff just won't be fully, 100%, known until December.

I think you fail to grasp the reality of game publishing. In order to have come out with a core book in time for the film they would have had to have been working on i at the same time they were working on Force and Destiny. FFG has pretty much specifically said they do not have an RPG product at this time. Sam Stewart said they do not have any more info than the rest of us for the film. So they can not make a core book at this time. They can't even make a source book at this time. As they know nothing about what is in the film. They made an X-Wing Core set. But that just requires making stats for 2 ships. That we knew about quite a while ago. Which precludes using the buzz from this film. And once they see the movie it takes about a year from the time they start writing a book to the time the book is released per conversations I have had with freelancers. So maybe they will have a source book next September.

There is also the fact that another core book would piss off a lot of fans. Especially the ones that already ***** about their being 3 core books. I can see the hundred page thread of people fighting about their being another core book.

So I can see the apeal of another core book. I just don't see it happening. Not when you do the math of what is involved and how their current customers would react.

I'm going to be a bit rude here, but I think you fail to grasp the reality of reading.

I have never stated that they'd be releasing a new core book with the release of the film.

In fact, the very post you quoted was a discussion about how they could release it long after the film and still capitalize on the buzz of the film.

Now, I have to admit that I simply skipped the rest of your post due to the fact that you seemed to completely misread me, so if you have any important arguments to my actual posts, feel free to re-post them.

I do not believe they will be doing a new core book. Because it will take a lot of time to do one. And FFG did say the cycle is complete...IE no more core books for now. So a force awakens book would likely be a source book not a core book. which would be faster to produce.

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

The other important difference? A new X-Wing starter is a repaint of two existing models, new box art and some new card text and art. Relitivly speaking, that's pretty simple compared to a book that is 80% brand new text.

They are 2 new models. not repaints.

The comparison of an E7 core book to the E7 X-wing starter pack is fundamentally flawed. The latter has material that is directly useful to individuals that already have the game (New cards, new minis, etc). The former only contains information we [likely] already have. Even if there's new information, there aren't physical bits included in the core book that are required to play the game, hence the comparison is different in *kind*, not quality.

Whether people want to admit it or not, the "Beginners" products are most similar to the X-wing starter sets.

Do you know what's actually in the X-wing starter set?

3 ships.

ONE X-wing and two TIEs. That's it. Doesn't exactly qualify it as a rewarding experience "right out of the box".

They have the materials you need to play, show you the basics of the game, and then point you at the market place so you can actually buy what you need to play the full game. No how do the beginners boxes work? They show you the basics, give you the bare essentials, and then point you to the market so you can buy what you need actually play the game.

The box set just needs to say:

"Hey if you like the Jedi in this game and dig Kylo Ren/Finn, you should get F&D

If you like seeing Han Solo and [insert new 'fringey' character, Rey?], then you should check out EotE

And if you liked Poe Dameron in the X-wing, AoR is your cup of tea.

And guess what, they all work together, so you can expand your collection later if you want.'

The end.

As a business plan a new core still seems like the only smart announcement to make.

No, it doesn't. Anyone interested in a Star Wars RPG is already interested in this game. It's not like Star Wars is a new IP. The beginners boxes are what are going to pull new players in, especially since they'll include the dice ($15 for a half set is a scam). Everyone pushing a new core set seems to believe there's this vast untapped market of people who don't realize they want a Star Wars RPG and will have some kind of epiphany when they see TFA, but, IMO, that's a hallucination.

And finally, I really hate opinions like this:

Also what people here 'want' should not influence anything at all for them because I am pretty certain each and everyone of us would buy a $60 dollar CRB no matter what. Thus they would have new and old fans buying it. Especially since it would be a 450 page book for $60 instead of a $40 region book that have thus far been 150 pages. I'd pay it in a heartbeat...

If you want to label yourself a chump that's willing to fork out another $60, then fine, but you can't speak for everyone here.

I will not buy another core book for this system. Period.

I signed on for the "Three games" system since the day it was announced, and that's as far as I'm going. If they release a new core book that has some novel information in it, then I'm going to pirate it. I don't pirate RPGs, but this will push me over the edge. I doubt I'll be the only one that feels that way, but I'm not going to make any kind of generalizations about the other people.

Finally, and this is just simple math: Even if the new movie(s) DOUBLE the size of the player base (which is incredibly unlikely), the current players will still make up half their market, which is huge. So, what people "want" here actually should matter to FFG.

Then don't buy the new core book. Period. Suggesting you'll pirate it seems petty. You signed up for a "three games" system that covered the three major thematic pillars of the original trilogy. FFG delivered on that, and by all accounts, they're going to continue to produce books that help fill out that niche. There was never a promise, explicit or implicit, that you'd be getting new trilogy material as part of that deal. These books were always designed and marketed as specifically capturing the tone and setting of that era. You aren't entitled to anything else.

I think the real question is what FFG can feasibly provide with a new trilogy source book. They've made it clear that they aren't really privy to any more information about the new trilogy than we are.That means it's likely that any more concrete information they can put in the new book is going to be slim and already easily accessible to fans. If they try to release a new core the year after Ep VII releases, that means any new material would essentially be drawn from the movie, the prequel novel, and the slim bit of comics and games that take place between the OT and the NT.

I see it like this. A NT core is too good of an opportunity to pass up, but they don't really have the sources to draw from to make it a wholly new product. The existing cores had six movies and a wealth of expanded universe information to cherry pick from. So my best guess would be that a new core book would essentially be a streamlined repurposing of the existing three core systems: six careers plucked and possibly slightly altered from existing material, a number of existing races with perhaps a couple new ones thrown in for good measure, a history of the Empire and Republic updated with a bit of fluff explaining the years leading in to the NT, and a lot of reused stat blocks. Gear, ships, and enemy stats aren't going to change that much. A stormtrooper is a stormtrooper is a stormtrooper, even if there are minor alterations to the costume.

In other words, it doesn't seem like something for people who have already bought into the ecosystem to get worked up about. A new core will likely be the old game in new packaging, marketed to draw in new consumers. Players and GM's who already own the three cores won't find much new in there, but it will be a great stepping stone to draw in new readers, and it's a fairly cheap product to produce since the majority of the work is on the editorial team. Playtesting has already been balanced, most of the material is already written, and many of the art assets can probably be reused. It's just a matter of properly curating that information.

Some people seem to look at it as a case where FFG will essentially be splitting their revenue streams by having two dedicated fan bases, those who buy the NT books and those who buy the OT books, but I don't think that's the case at all. If the new core recycles old classes, you'll have new fans who are interested in buying career and setting books, since those will still largely be applicable, and you might have people who are now interested in buying some of the original cores to expand their career options. Players invested in the three book infrastructure won't need to own the NT core to play the new game if the rules are compatible (and if the material contained in the NT book can just as easily be gleaned from watching the movie), but NT supplements can provide them tools to run stories that parallel VII-IX.