However, my character Kovin got a very very red lightsaber (6-3 red-yellow) and he's not a darksider so that's a bit confusing. I was going to give him a yellow saber (from my own interpretation). But then I'm still getting the hang of him

As this was created before the morality system, it doesn't include inputs from it. You could always state that in order for someone to have a red lightsaber they must have a morality at or below 20 - otherwise Red is never considered the highest result (in which case it can still shade a saber as the second highest as with Mace).

Personally, I absolutely allow my PCs to develop red lightsabers - because it's one of those moments that makes them react to themselves.

Villains rarely see themselves as villains - and so when a player creates a lightsaber, flips the activator and a ruinous crimson blade springs forth it's one of those shocking moments that makes a character reconsider his motivations (and also makes for awesome roleplay). What usually comes next is the question that ties to Anakin's own fall - you do these things because you believe they are right - but what makes you the decider of right and wrong?

Well Kovin's a very enthusiastic character - perhaps he needs to temper that? (take notes awayputurwpn)

To be fair, according to one source Leia wielded a bright red blade at one point, but for the good guys. I know the Sith use artificial crystals but I imagine a naturally occurring red one might work.

And that is perfectly fine. The thing with Red lightsabers is that it reflects that the character is at odds with the Galaxy - nothing more (hence the conflict). Sith and Dark Side Force users have Red blades because they are seeking to dominate and control the natural order of things for their personal glory. Nothing says that a light side force user wouldn't have a Red blade just because they think the natural order is painful, unfair and needed to chill a bit.

Leia makes a lot of sense to have a red blade as she often could care less what the "Force" wanted - she had a job to do and a people to save dammit.

Adi Gallia also had a red blade in the EU.

I am leaning towards the 'crystal type determines the color' interpretation. The reason green and blue are common for Jedi is because they often use Ilum crystals, which are green and blue by nature. Sith use red, because their crystals are synthetic and more 'powerful' and produce a red color, and Sith are all about power. If I incorporate naturally occuring red crystals (which KotOR did), then perhaps the actual shade of reds differ: Sith synthetic crystals produce a deep, bloody red, while natural red crystals have shades of pink or orange, likeable to reds at sunset.

I like that. Although it might be fun to watch people's reactions if I produce a red blade

Adi Gallia also had a red blade in the EU.

I am leaning towards the 'crystal type determines the color' interpretation. The reason green and blue are common for Jedi is because they often use Ilum crystals, which are green and blue by nature. Sith use red, because their crystals are synthetic and more 'powerful' and produce a red color, and Sith are all about power. If I incorporate naturally occuring red crystals (which KotOR did), then perhaps the actual shade of reds differ: Sith synthetic crystals produce a deep, bloody red, while natural red crystals have shades of pink or orange, likeable to reds at sunset.

I always thought you could have fun with the idea that Red syth crystals were the fastest/easiest to make.

-Four jedi ignite their sabers. Green... Blue.... Green.... Red...Awkward stares.... "What? You're the one who said you needed me right away and there wasn't time to stop for anything!"

Question to all you forum Force enthusiasts. I have a character in my game that will likely end up with a Kyber crystal one day. Currently she only has a training saber, but I'm just planning ahead. The thing is, this character isn't force sensitive. She has no real knowledge of the force outside of the bits of jumbled information floating around in her head. She knows the Sith and Jedi code, but doesn't understand or even know who preached them. To her they are just poems/philosophy akin to The Art of War. She does, however, gravitate towards the Sith Code (As it stresses personal freedom and passions against a crazy galaxy).

When the day comes for her to put a real crystal into her saber, what should I do? Follow the standard rules for color (and use that wonderful test as a baseline?) or something else? Should her saber not even have a color? Should it be muted and faint as opposed to brilliant? I imagine she'd fall very close to red/purple. Should it be pink?

I guess the question boils down to: If a kyber crystal doesn't have a color until attuned by a Force User, what happens if the person who "attunes" to it can't actually use the force?

White, like an Imperial Knight? It's worth noting that everyone is attuned to the Force to some extent - you don't get 'blanks' because the Force inhabits everyone. So the crystal would connect with her on some level regardless.

Right, hence the suggestion that it be muted or faint (like her connection to the force). It's technically possible for a droid to be Shii-cho knight however, and get its own Lightsaber crystal, so I would argue that it's possible to get "blanks" because the Force doesn't inhabit *everyone*. I get what you're saying though. Point made. :-)

Perhaps a faint red/pink/purple would be the best way to interrupt that, symbolizing the faint connection she technically has. That way white/silver sabers can be saved for those with no connection to the Force (like droids) or who view the crystal as nothing more than a simple tool (Imperial knights and I'm going to assume Ahsoka, who exists as neither Sith nor Jedi).

Well Silver I always envisaged as individuals with a very strong connection to the Force, even by Jedi standards. The ones who don't whip out their sabers every chance they get, like Tera Sinube.

On a side note from Jasonco2's dilemma, I saw Katrina Ostrander from FFG share Kyla's test on her twitter feed. I found that amusing.

Well Silver I always envisaged as individuals with a very strong connection to the Force, even by Jedi standards. The ones who don't whip out their sabers every chance they get, like Tera Sinube.

You know what? I can't argue with that. I'd totally spaced on Tera Sinube for some reason.

Although that still leaves me wondering what color a droid would get... perhaps the fabled "Darksaber" of Deathwatch infamy was locked away in the Jedi Temple all those years ago because it was forged by a rogue, lightsaber-wielding droid; and thus Black (the absence of color) is a "color" that only shows up when a kyber crystal is attuned to a being that lacks all connection to the force?

Although that still leaves me wondering what color a droid would get... perhaps the fabled "Darksaber" of Deathwatch infamy was locked away in the Jedi Temple all those years ago because it was forged by a rogue, lightsaber-wielding droid; and thus Black (the absence of color) is a "color" that only shows up when a kyber crystal is attuned to a being that lacks all connection to the force?

I've taken the stance that the Darksaber isn't a proper lightsaber at all; it's a Sith alchemy blade. The crackling black color is due to the Force magics used to forge it. It might even bestow a limited degree of Force sensitivity on the wielder, if you like that as an explanation as to why Pre Vizsla was so proficient at it. (Personally, I like to think he was just that skilled at fencing, but it's whatever floats your boat.)

Although that still leaves me wondering what color a droid would get... perhaps the fabled "Darksaber" of Deathwatch infamy was locked away in the Jedi Temple all those years ago because it was forged by a rogue, lightsaber-wielding droid; and thus Black (the absence of color) is a "color" that only shows up when a kyber crystal is attuned to a being that lacks all connection to the force?

I've taken the stance that the Darksaber isn't a proper lightsaber at all; it's a Sith alchemy blade. The crackling black color is due to the Force magics used to forge it. It might even bestow a limited degree of Force sensitivity on the wielder, if you like that as an explanation as to why Pre Vizsla was so proficient at it. (Personally, I like to think he was just that skilled at fencing, but it's whatever floats your boat.)

As someone who defends the idea that you don't need the force to use a Lightsaber, I agree with you 100% on Vizsla's skill. Heck, I'm only posting in this topic because I've got a character who's a Makashi Duelist without the Force, haha.

I like the idea of it being a Sith blade, although another possibility would be an old Rakata Forcesaber. Still doesn't solve my mystery of what a kyber crystal attuned by a droid would look like, but *shrugs*.

Although that still leaves me wondering what color a droid would get... perhaps the fabled "Darksaber" of Deathwatch infamy was locked away in the Jedi Temple all those years ago because it was forged by a rogue, lightsaber-wielding droid; and thus Black (the absence of color) is a "color" that only shows up when a kyber crystal is attuned to a being that lacks all connection to the force?

I've taken the stance that the Darksaber isn't a proper lightsaber at all; it's a Sith alchemy blade. The crackling black color is due to the Force magics used to forge it. It might even bestow a limited degree of Force sensitivity on the wielder, if you like that as an explanation as to why Pre Vizsla was so proficient at it. (Personally, I like to think he was just that skilled at fencing, but it's whatever floats your boat.)

As someone who defends the idea that you don't need the force to use a Lightsaber, I agree with you 100% on Vizsla's skill. Heck, I'm only posting in this topic because I've got a character who's a Makashi Duelist without the Force, haha.

I like the idea of it being a Sith blade, although another possibility would be an old Rakata Forcesaber. Still doesn't solve my mystery of what a kyber crystal attuned by a droid would look like, but *shrugs*.

How does that work? According to the book the Makashi talent that lets you use the Presence stat is a Force talent. I guess you could take it and just stick with brawn, but I feel you'd be giving up some valuable talents. Also, a lightsaber crystal can't be attuned by a droid because droids aren't alive and can't feel the Force.

How does that work? According to the book the Makashi talent that lets you use the Presence stat is a Force talent. I guess you could take it and just stick with brawn, but I feel you'd be giving up some valuable talents. Also, a lightsaber crystal can't be attuned by a droid because droids aren't alive and can't feel the Force.

The only thing you can do is keep Brawn. Makashi's an excellent tree for someone non-Force sensitive to learn to use a lightsaber, since it has a lot of Parry and pretty easy access to both Feint and Improved Parry. The only bum deal is having to buy a Force talent that you can't use to unlock the rest of the tree.

And I agree with you about the crystal. Since they can't have Force Ratings, droids can't attune crystals themselves. There's a droid PC in my group who has expressed a desire to learn how to use a lightsaber pike; my two ideas on how she might acquire the crystal required runs from "gifted to her" to "she kills the previous owner." She's okay with either outcome.

How does that work? According to the book the Makashi talent that lets you use the Presence stat is a Force talent. I guess you could take it and just stick with brawn, but I feel you'd be giving up some valuable talents. Also, a lightsaber crystal can't be attuned by a droid because droids aren't alive and can't feel the Force.

The only thing you can do is keep Brawn. Makashi's an excellent tree for someone non-Force sensitive to learn to use a lightsaber, since it has a lot of Parry and pretty easy access to both Feint and Improved Parry. The only bum deal is having to buy a Force talent that you can't use to unlock the rest of the tree.

And I agree with you about the crystal. Since they can't have Force Ratings, droids can't attune crystals themselves. There's a droid PC in my group who has expressed a desire to learn how to use a lightsaber pike; my two ideas on how she might acquire the crystal required runs from "gifted to her" to "she kills the previous owner." She's okay with either outcome.

Ok so, I like the idea that droids can't find or attune to a kyber crystal. But hypothetically if a droid killed a krayt dragon and took the pearl or stumbled upon one some other way, what color would the crystal be? Would it not turn on? In the case of the dragon pearl, does the dragon determine the color? These are the questions that vex me, haha.

How does that work? According to the book the Makashi talent that lets you use the Presence stat is a Force talent. I guess you could take it and just stick with brawn, but I feel you'd be giving up some valuable talents. Also, a lightsaber crystal can't be attuned by a droid because droids aren't alive and can't feel the Force.

The only thing you can do is keep Brawn. Makashi's an excellent tree for someone non-Force sensitive to learn to use a lightsaber, since it has a lot of Parry and pretty easy access to both Feint and Improved Parry. The only bum deal is having to buy a Force talent that you can't use to unlock the rest of the tree.

And I agree with you about the crystal. Since they can't have Force Ratings, droids can't attune crystals themselves. There's a droid PC in my group who has expressed a desire to learn how to use a lightsaber pike; my two ideas on how she might acquire the crystal required runs from "gifted to her" to "she kills the previous owner." She's okay with either outcome.

Ok so, I like the idea that droids can't find or attune to a kyber crystal. But hypothetically if a droid killed a krayt dragon and took the pearl or stumbled upon one some other way, what color would the crystal be? Would it not turn on? In the case of the dragon pearl, does the dragon determine the color? These are the questions that vex me, haha.

Finding the crystal is not the same as attuning the crystal. Attuning would typically occur when they construct the lightsabre using the Force. Lacking an ability to touch the Force they would lack the ability to attune the lightsabre. You don't need the Force to come into possession of a kyber crystal or the dragon pearl one. You need the Force in order to make the connection with the crystal and your personality while constructing the sabre for the first time.

So it would be attuned to whomever actually ends up building the lightsabre.

How does that work? According to the book the Makashi talent that lets you use the Presence stat is a Force talent. I guess you could take it and just stick with brawn, but I feel you'd be giving up some valuable talents. Also, a lightsaber crystal can't be attuned by a droid because droids aren't alive and can't feel the Force.

The only thing you can do is keep Brawn. Makashi's an excellent tree for someone non-Force sensitive to learn to use a lightsaber, since it has a lot of Parry and pretty easy access to both Feint and Improved Parry. The only bum deal is having to buy a Force talent that you can't use to unlock the rest of the tree.

And I agree with you about the crystal. Since they can't have Force Ratings, droids can't attune crystals themselves. There's a droid PC in my group who has expressed a desire to learn how to use a lightsaber pike; my two ideas on how she might acquire the crystal required runs from "gifted to her" to "she kills the previous owner." She's okay with either outcome.

Ok so, I like the idea that droids can't find or attune to a kyber crystal. But hypothetically if a droid killed a krayt dragon and took the pearl or stumbled upon one some other way, what color would the crystal be? Would it not turn on? In the case of the dragon pearl, does the dragon determine the color? These are the questions that vex me, haha.

Finding the crystal is not the same as attuning the crystal. Attuning would typically occur when they construct the lightsabre using the Force. Lacking an ability to touch the Force they would lack the ability to attune the lightsabre. You don't need the Force to come into possession of a kyber crystal or the dragon pearl one. You need the Force in order to make the connection with the crystal and your personality while constructing the sabre for the first time.

So it would be attuned to whomever actually ends up building the lightsabre.

But what's stopping a droid from building a Lightsaber? You don't need the force to construct one (if so, proof?). Indeed, even the Jedi used a droid to assist their younglings in the construction of their lightsabers.

But what's stopping a droid from building a Lightsaber? You don't need the force to construct one (if so, proof?). Indeed, even the Jedi used a droid to assist their younglings in the construction of their lightsabers.

The droids never constructed the lightsabre. They just had the technical skills of how to do it. It's been fairly consistent but part of the process seems to involve manipulating all the pieces through the force with the lightsabre coming together not by physical hands but an act of using move object to assemble all the pieces together.

Check out this link

https://www.google.com/search?q=constructing+a+lightsaber&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCoQsARqFQoTCM-L3oDP9ccCFRQTkgodmC4JiQ&biw=1366&bih=667

You'll see through the various pictures that when constructing a lightsabre the parts are assembled using the Force as the Jedi meditates on the act of making the lightsabre. Whether we're talking about the Clone Wars (both versions of the cartoon show), Force Unleashed, cut scenes from Return of the Jedi .... etc etc .... we consistently see that the act of assembling a lightsabre is done via the Force and not with their hands. Thus I tend to reason that attunment of the crystal to the Jedi occurs during this final act.

A droid can have the technical know how to build a lightsabre. But they lack the ability to actually construct it, as evidenced by a fairly consistent depiction of it all coming together.

Here's a youtube video from SWTOR. All things considered googling and youtube will show you this pattern of how it's done.

But what's stopping a droid from building a Lightsaber? You don't need the force to construct one (if so, proof?). Indeed, even the Jedi used a droid to assist their younglings in the construction of their lightsabers.

The droids never constructed the lightsabre. They just had the technical skills of how to do it. It's been fairly consistent but part of the process seems to involve manipulating all the pieces through the force with the lightsabre coming together not by physical hands but an act of using move object to assemble all the pieces together.

Check out this link

https://www.google.com/search?q=constructing+a+lightsaber&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCoQsARqFQoTCM-L3oDP9ccCFRQTkgodmC4JiQ&biw=1366&bih=667

You'll see through the various pictures that when constructing a lightsabre the parts are assembled using the Force as the Jedi meditates on the act of making the lightsabre. Whether we're talking about the Clone Wars (both versions of the cartoon show), Force Unleashed, cut scenes from Return of the Jedi .... etc etc .... we consistently see that the act of assembling a lightsabre is done via the Force and not with their hands. Thus I tend to reason that attunment of the crystal to the Jedi occurs during this final act.

A droid can have the technical know how to build a lightsabre. But they lack the ability to actually construct it, as evidenced by a fairly consistent depiction of it all coming together.

Here's a youtube video from SWTOR. All things considered googling and youtube will show you this pattern of how it's done.

So I'm aware that we only ever see Force sensitive people constructing Lightsabers. That said, there is nothing in the rules of the game that requires a lightsaber to be built by a force sensitive person. The fact of the matter is that people with the force are simply the ones most likely to make them. One made by hand would certainly look different! But we have no proof that it's impossible; hence my hypothetical question. If there was an example of it in canon I wouldn't be asking. :-)

You seem to be of the opinion that a droid can't make a lightsaber, which is cool for your table. The rules don't support this however, so I'm curious what happens in the unconventional scenario that a droid aspiring to be a Jedi builds his own lightsaber. Unless I somehow missed the part of the book that says "only living beings/force sensitives can construct lightsabers". At which point my question's unnecessary.

That said, there is nothing in the rules of the game that requires a lightsaber to be built by a force sensitive person.

I wasn't answering a rules based question. I was explaining how the process has been depicted in the source material. I'm aware of what the rules say. The rules leave it up to the GM and if you really want to do it then go for it. But based on the source material using the Force seems to be a key element in constructing one. Not my opinion, just posting what has been presented by the canon sources.

You seem to be of the opinion that a droid can't make a lightsaber, which is cool for your table.

I'm not really discussing my table or really my opinion. It's not my opinion that the Force is an important part. It's how lightsabre construction has been depicted. You asked me to back my position up with source material and I have. You asked for proof and I showed it to you. What you do with that proof is your business. But ulimtately according to the canon material using the Force is a key component to making a lightsabre. There's a very real chance that the reason we never see a droid make one (and there have been chances to depict a droid making one such as one episode of TCW) is because they can't and the creators see no point in showing a droid failing at the task as it wouldn't move the story forward any.

Don't ask for proof if you don't really want it.

That said, there is nothing in the rules of the game that requires a lightsaber to be built by a force sensitive person.

I wasn't answering a rules based question. I was explaining how the process has been depicted in the source material. I'm aware of what the rules say. The rules leave it up to the GM and if you really want to do it then go for it. But based on the source material using the Force seems to be a key element in constructing one. Not my opinion, just posting what has been presented by the canon sources.

You seem to be of the opinion that a droid can't make a lightsaber, which is cool for your table.

I'm not really discussing my table or really my opinion. It's not my opinion that the Force is an important part. It's how lightsabre construction has been depicted. You asked me to back my position up with source material and I have. You asked for proof and I showed it to you. What you do with that proof is your business. But ulimtately according to the canon material using the Force is a key component to making a lightsabre. There's a very real chance that the reason we never see a droid make one (and there have been chances to depict a droid making one such as one episode of TCW) is because they can't and the creators see no point in showing a droid failing at the task as it wouldn't move the story forward any.

Don't ask for proof if you don't really want it.

>.< Ok but, "proof" would imply a hard-set rule. Which is what I was looking for. Listing all of the examples of how a force sensitive makes a saber doesn't prove a non-force sensitive can't, it just provides a precedent.

My apologies though, I was asking for either definitive in-canon proof (which I haven't seen yet) or an in game rule. My question stems from a hypothetical in-game possibility (that the rules allow) and what possible outcomes would come of it. You're suggestion is obviously "it doesn't work", which is cool and supported by the precedent provided by canon. Since this is a RPG that often challenges that precedent, I'm still curious to get other ideas on what a droid (or non Force user) made lightsaber would look like.

That said, there is nothing in the rules of the game that requires a lightsaber to be built by a force sensitive person.

I wasn't answering a rules based question. I was explaining how the process has been depicted in the source material. I'm aware of what the rules say. The rules leave it up to the GM and if you really want to do it then go for it. But based on the source material using the Force seems to be a key element in constructing one. Not my opinion, just posting what has been presented by the canon sources.

You seem to be of the opinion that a droid can't make a lightsaber, which is cool for your table.

I'm not really discussing my table or really my opinion. It's not my opinion that the Force is an important part. It's how lightsabre construction has been depicted. You asked me to back my position up with source material and I have. You asked for proof and I showed it to you. What you do with that proof is your business. But ulimtately according to the canon material using the Force is a key component to making a lightsabre. There's a very real chance that the reason we never see a droid make one (and there have been chances to depict a droid making one such as one episode of TCW) is because they can't and the creators see no point in showing a droid failing at the task as it wouldn't move the story forward any.

Don't ask for proof if you don't really want it.

>.< Ok but, "proof" would imply a hard-set rule. Which is what I was looking for. Listing all of the examples of how a force sensitive makes a saber doesn't prove a non-force sensitive can't, it just provides a precedent.

My apologies though, I was asking for either definitive in-canon proof (which I haven't seen yet) or an in game rule. My question stems from a hypothetical in-game possibility (that the rules allow) and what possible outcomes would come of it. You're suggestion is obviously "it doesn't work", which is cool and supported by the precedent provided by canon. Since this is a RPG that often challenges that precedent, I'm still curious to get other ideas on what a droid (or non Force user) made lightsaber would look like.

It has repeatedly been said in many books that Jedi have to attune the crystal to get it to work. Hell it is subtly said by Huyang that you have to "wake" the force in the crystal to get it to work.

This is not rules obviously, and it is probably not even Canon anymore, at least not all of it, but it has some info on the matter of lightsaber crystals and the need for them to be attuned to or imbued with the Force so as to no longer be just rocks and actually function.

Click me.