I'll give my two cents on all of this power creep stuff... Let's look at numbers:
SHIP (point range) stats
Wave 4:
E-wing (27-35) 3/3/2/3
Z-95 (12-19) 2/2/2/2
Wave 5:
YT-2400 (30-36) *large* 2/2/5/5
Wave 6:
n/a
Wave 7:
K-wing (23-29) 2/1/5/4
Episode VII:
T-70 (24-31) 3/2/3/3
When looking at these numbers.... I fail to see the power creep.
The tie/ln has nothing to worry about and I'm struggling to think of a reason to ever own a fo you can't even mini swarm them effectively.
The t-70 is good but as others have pointed out you pay for it, what ffg should of done to assuage fears is give a more definitive time frame for when the x-wing fix will hit.
I don't think it's unreasonable for people who own and like x-wing's to be a bit put out though.
It a power creep plan and simple seen many time In 40 k why would this be any different In ffg
It a power creep plan and simple seen many time In 40 k why would this be any different In ffg
...and that seals it. Clearly not power creep(or at least not in a negative way).
Edited by DariusAPBIt a power creep plan and simple seen many time In 40 k why would this be any different In ffg
Truly, your reasoned, thoughtful arguments are impossible to dispute. 
So are we seeing the first true signs of powercreep?
No.
Version 2.0 effectively invalidates the t-65 and TIE/LN.
No.
Is there any reason to use the old ships?
Yes.
C'mon Vorpal - stop prevaricating and tell us what you really think 
Things aren't priced the same. The cheapest FO TIE is 15 points, on par with the A-Wing, so you won't bring more than 6 of them to the table. The old TIEs? Yeah, you can bring 2 more to the table, including 1 named pilot. The T-70 is also priced differently and offers a different set of upgrades and pilots.
How is this not obvious? This is like asking "THE TIE PUNISHER CAME OUT, WHY WOULD I EVER WANT TO FLY THE TIE FIGHTER?!"
Why can't people see there's power creep that just how games work the force u to keep buying the new stuff to be able to play
I think the next question should be, is the T-70 viable in a list, and what would be good builds?
Why can't people see there's power creep that just how games work the force u to keep buying the new stuff to be able to play
I disagree. I have seen a few times over players with all Wave 1 ships holding their own in tournaments. I know, I know, I know.... you're going to quote some kind of statistic of how many wave 1 ships are winning right now. As Mark Twain once said, "There are three types of lies in this world; lies, **** lies, and statistics." The numbers don't tell the whole story. The hard core tournament players buy everything a few times over. The casual (but still very good) player has a much smaller collection. I don't think we see many of those (the casual player) at State, Regional, and World.
Poet is the most obviously viable t70
Run with pred/ptl and R2d2/r5p9 for tank
Ptl + bb-8 for mobility
Thrusters always and obviously
For fos, it's super special awesome wingman with an ln swarm or a punch of pyl ceptors or fos
It a power creep plan and simple seen many time In 40 k why would this be any different In ffg
Why can't people see there's power creep that just how games work the force u to keep buying the new stuff to be able to play
10/10 logic. I love you, frogy
Do yourselves a favor and just ignore Frogy. You only encourage him - he is not and never has been looking for answers or actual intelligent discussion.
Anyway, that aside, the question that interests me is this: Would the question of power creep even be a question if these had been, say, Wave 8 ships that were called anything other than "X-wing" and "TIE Fighter?"
In other words, if this had been, say, the TIE Aggressor and the, I don't know, H-wing, or M-Class or T-wing or something, would the design alone have drawn complaints of power creep, or is it purely because of the names drawing (perhaps unfair) comparisons to the 'classic' X-wing and TIE and preventing people from viewing them as new, distinct ships in their own right?
One point I'd like to make separately is that what is balanced at 100 points may not be balanced at 300 or 400.
Epic is one of those things that way more games need to be played at to really see the differences. The impression I get is that swarms, or at least generics have more of a spot in epic than fats / aces.
You raise an interesting point Crooked. Especially as the TIE **** off seems to fill a different niche to the TIE Workhorse we all know and love.
The T-70 is a different animal. I'm not sure where that fits yet.
Edited by DariusAPBWhy can't people see there's power creep that just how games work the force u to keep buying the new stuff to be able to play
A game evolves and things become different, but if point costing differs the creep is minimal to none. And nothing "forces" you to buy things, you choose to buy and play. If you don't like the way a game is going you can always choose to move on to another. I've bounced a few games when they turned bad (looking at you 40k)
The issue really is rebel players who own x-wing's and want to use them and find they don't work that well, then ffg releases a new x-wing before the original is fixed.
The fo isn't replacing the ln so there's been no fuss, but the t-70 is better than the t-65 and that hurts people.
That's true. The T-65 needs not just some love, but at this point all the love.
Even the Defender has the Twin ion mk2.
I mean FFS when your ship is overshadowed by the HWK you know something must be amiss, right?
The issue really is rebel players who own x-wing's and want to use them and find they don't work that well, then ffg releases a new x-wing before the original is fixed.
The fo isn't replacing the ln so there's been no fuss, but the t-70 is better than the t-65 and that hurts people.
well, fortunately the T-70 isn't really a new X-wing
sure, in our heads we associate it with a new X-wing, but in gameplay terms it's its own ship
it does not replace the new X-wing, it doesn't even compete with the ship that replaced the X-wing (the B)
it is, for all intents and purposes outside of irrelevant looks and our own personal associations, it's its own thing and completely separate from the T-65 (apart from the fact that they share titles, if X-wing only titles ever come to be)
or they're the E-wing 2.0, depending on how paranoid you are 
jesus christ, what is it about the new core set that brings out the crazy in people
for the record, the Tie/ln beats the everloving **** out of the FO in terms of pure cost efficiency
this means, if you spam 100 points of Ln and 100 points of FO, the Lns will reliably win in a pure dice off
the t-65 is in a different boat, because the t-65 sucked since release (it sucked compared to the Tie/ln, no less!). There won't be any Biggs parallel to the t-70, though, and Tarn is incredibly durable for only +1 point up from the cheapest t-70 variant.
Absolutely true. The Tie/ln is stilla fine ship, a 7 or 8 Swarm is still a strong list, i recently tried it out and results were remarkable. Its not as dominant as in wave 1-2 but still very playable.
The X-Wing as fickle says was never a good ship and therefore power creep cant invalidate it, it was never really a top pick, except for some rare pilot abilities.
We are still waiting for a fix for the T-65 X-Wing!
So. then what would the fix for T65 be?
title adding hull point,
title adding tech upgrade slot with 1-2 points leeway?
point reduction on astromechs?
PS increase?
Blah, everyone disregard this post, as we've been discussing x-wing fixes for over a year now.
So. then what would the fix for T65 be?
title adding hull point,
title adding tech upgrade slot with 1-2 points leeway?
point reduction on astromechs?
PS increase?
Blah, everyone disregard this post, as we've been discussing x-wing fixes for over a year now.
But that's why it's frustrating all those suggestions to fix the classic got bolted onto the new coke version.
This was also a situation that was kind of a lose-lose for FFG as far as much of the community is concerned. 
Scenario 1: They release the T-70, and it's exactly the same (or arguably worse) than the T-65, and all they hear is "what was the point of making a new X-wing if it's no better than the old X-wing? Why would they still be using it decades later if it hasn't improved at all??"
Scenario 2: They release the T-70, and it has some bells and whistles and upgrades the T-65 does not, try and cost it so that it costs more than the old X-wing but is at a price point people will want to include it, and all they hear is "what the hell, FFG? Why make the new X-wing better? Why would anyone use the old X-wing now? Ahhhhh power creep! Now you need to put out upgrades that make the old one as good as the new one!"
I'm curious what 3rd scenario anyone here imagines that would have made people remotely happy. It had to be demonstrably 'better' in some ways while charging you for the privilege, or its existence made no sense - and their hands were kind of tied on the fact that it is indeed a canon 'thing' now. Same with the new TIE.
As I said, I think it's a lot more productive to not bother comparing them to the 'old versions' of each ship and view them on their own merits as brand new ships that happen to have similar names.
Thing is though is that the TIE LN is still the baseline ship for Empire. a TIE Defender is better in every way just about.
it's over twice the pointage.
a T-70 could be a technical marvel, a beast. just make it 30 points.
Release a title that gives the 65 a barrel roll and -1 squad point job done it's really that simple.
The kgfrdvht fighter is still cheaper gets the illicit slot so that does not feel hard done by.
There's also now a reason to take an x-wing over a b-wing.
I can't wait for that.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Imperial and scum because of my nature (Anti Hero, tragic/misunderstood/anti villain over plain good guy any day). But for when I do Rebels, I want to be able to field the classics.