So are we seeing the first true signs of powercreep? Version 2.0 effectively invalidates the t-65 and TIE/LN. Is there any reason to use the old ships? Will all our purchases eventually meet the same '2.0' fate?

Point cost. And some pilot abilities

jesus christ, what is it about the new core set that brings out the crazy in people ?

for the record, the Tie/ln beats the everloving **** out of the FO in terms of pure cost efficiency

this means, if you spam 100 points of Ln and 100 points of FO, the Lns will reliably win in a pure dice off

the t-65 is in a different boat, because the t-65 sucked since release (it sucked compared to the Tie/ln, no less!). There won't be any Biggs parallel to the t-70, though, and Tarn is incredibly durable for only +1 point up from the cheapest t-70 variant.

what? TIE/LN are still good all around. In fact these new first order tie pilots seem to complement them very well, if only as fillers.

the T-65 isn't really invalidated either. Sure it's crippled atm, but the trench run trio is still good to go (Biggs, Luke, Wedge).

I think it is a matter of information having dripped to us in obscure ways befor officialy being there and people not being versed in the underlying math of X-Wing.

The T65 is just as good today as it was yesterday.

The T65 is just as good today as it was yesterday.

which is a sad state of affairs

but indeed not powercreep

Wild guess......most players that go off about 'power creep' and old units being obsolete.....40k players by any chance??

The T65 is just as good today as it was yesterday.

Here is how the new X-wing will effect the T-65

First, the new upgrade slot. Second, the EPT slot on the PS 4. There is always going to be a place for the 21 point and named T-65s, but I think the where the named T-65s see more table time, the non-unique T-70s will find a place in the meta.

It would be power creep if the new X-Wings and TIE Fighters cost the same as the old ones. But they don't, so it's not.

Wild guess......most players that go off about 'power creep' and old units being obsolete.....40k players by any chance??

ruthless conditioning is ruthless

give them time to adjust, the poor fellas are rightly traumatized

The Tie/LN at 12 pts base is still very hard to beat. These new guys are a little too expensive to fly as full swarms but might be pretty good as mini swarms of 3-4 ships.

So are we seeing the first true signs of powercreep? Version 2.0 effectively invalidates the t-65 and TIE/LN. Is there any reason to use the old ships? Will all our purchases eventually meet the same '2.0' fate?

Not 2.0. The sky is not falling. That is all.

Wild guess......most players that go off about 'power creep' and old units being obsolete.....40k players by any chance??

Possibly, but power creep has existed in most games to some degree, even tabletop RPGs (those familiar with Rifts rpg will rue the power creep of South America 2). I think it is a natural extension of what happens when the designers have over time developed new tools to expand the game, thus making it better and more varied, and have failed to incorporate into their iconic and much loved starter items

Ya, the power creep is SO real. It's not like the new ships cost more or anything. Or that the B-wing already outclassed the T-65 X-wing. And on that note, I'm not even sure why they are releasing the "old" Tie fighter with the Gozanti expansion, because it's totally useless now. Thanks FFG for ruining my game.

/sarcasm

So are we seeing the first true signs of powercreep?

No.

Version 2.0 effectively invalidates the t-65 and TIE/LN.

No.

Is there any reason to use the old ships?

Yes.

The Tie/LN at 12 pts base is still very hard to beat. These new guys are a little too expensive to fly as full swarms but might be pretty good as mini swarms of 3-4 ships.

I don't even know about that

for the Tie/FO I'm worried about reverse creep

I see close to no reason to take the generic pilots. Sure, you're getting a super health upgrade, but at a 3 point premium for the same offense that's simply not enough bang for your buck.

the named pilots and the tech upgrade (so far underwhelming, but there's only one card for it atm) will be the only ways through which the FO can surpass the Tie/Ln.

the dial is sexy too, but lest we forget the Tie/ln's dial is also incredibly sexy for a ship of its class (i.e "fodder")

so far, for me, it's just the awesome ultra-wingman and the troll 2"-roll that'll see any play until proven otherwise

and this coming from a guy who loves A-wings

Oh boy. This again?

There is no real powercreep here unless you believe the T-65 was perfectly fine. If you came to that conclusion I can't help you, you have a vastly different view of a balanced game.

TIE FOs are more little interceptor than tie fighter. I'll be sprinkling 1-2 into many list.

Power creep does happen, but in x-wing it happens in a good way. Power creep usually retroactively fixes older ships these days.

Look at the Y-wing(who has had christmas 3 times in 12 months with bomb loadouts, BTLA4, EPT scum pilots, TLTs, and can now barrel roll with BB8). TIE Advanced (x1 ACT/AC), Interceptors (Autothrusters, aces RGIs), the HWK (Scum made them awesome, TLTs) even the B wing got the /E modification.

FFG go out of their way to make older ships viable.

So are we seeing the first true signs of powercreep?

No.

Version 2.0 effectively invalidates the t-65 and TIE/LN.

No.

Is there any reason to use the old ships?

Yes.

This has been another episode of short answers to multiple questions.

If it is not indeed powercreep, then what it tells me is that since adding 1 shield and Engine Upgrade makes a T65 so much more expensive than a T70, that these are not necessarily good upgrades to put on the T65 in the first place. If you want to do that, use the T70 - it's cheaper.

The question is now you have a cheaper ship that has other upgrade slots available so you can build an even better ship for the same cost of what it took to make a T65 even look like a T70. I might be missing something here, but I know there's something to learn from this.

The T65 is just as good today as it was yesterday.

Here is how the new X-wing will effect the T-65

First, the new upgrade slot. Second, the EPT slot on the PS 4. There is always going to be a place for the 21 point and named T-65s, but I think the where the named T-65s see more table time, the non-unique T-70s will find a place in the meta.

Throw Autothrusters and an EPT on that and you're breaking 30 points. The two ships that the T-70 might look like power creep when you compare them is the T-65 and the Defender. Both of those ships have known issues and don't make for the most accurate comparison.

The T-70 seems to be roughly on the same power level as other ships that exist. the T-65 is under powered.

The fault of your argument lies in believing the T-65 is the baseline ship for balance. It should be, it isn't.

The fault of your argument lies in believing the T-65 is the baseline ship for balance. It should be, it isn't.

And, if you consider it against the TIE fighter, it never really has been.

Exactly.