While I'm not as sold on the new TIEs (seem expensive for Sloops, a shield, and a couple more greens), the new X-Wing is going to be a beast.

- An extra shield, plus native Boost for repositioning and Autothrusters access.

- A PS4 generic with an EPT.

- An entirely new maneuver, which minimizes the opponent's ability to block it compared to the single 4K, plus a hair of green.

However, they're also 3 points more expensive than the old T65s, so they're not going to completely knock that ship or the B-Wing out of the game. You're generally not going to fit a squad of 4 into a list and expect it to do great. Older pilots like Biggs and Wedge can probably still show some of the new flyboys some tricks, and Wes can probably ruin Poe's day. There will still be a spot for the old craft.

BB-8 also helps the T65 X-Wing out a lot. For two points, he gives you a free barrel roll action when you reveal your dial. As it's a free action, you can pair that with PTL to focus or TL, then execute your green, clear the stress, and take a third action. He locks you out of R2D2 or any other astromechs, and cannot be used when stressed or after revealing a white maneuver, but he's still going to be a great option for the older craft for only two points.

The stress clearing TIE might be nice for a swarm. Let's you K without a care in the world.

statwise they seem monstrously inefficient, truly the E-wing 2.0 (and not nearly as terribly overpriced as the knave, so thank the force for that) only not strictly better (autothrusters --> geared to taking multiple attacks, evade --> taking a single attack) outside the pricing for the generics

you're going to have to customize these guys to get your points' worth, because those naked stats are what the rookie pilot should have had to be viable

anyway, Poe is basically another Corran (continuing the theme between the t-70 and the E, Poe is better versus multiple ships and Corran against one big ****) I see him being quite competitive right out the box (especially if you're frightened of tlts)

everyone else, though? meh

I share concerns about the tie/fo though. apart from super wingman, I have no idea how they'll fit in

the answers might lie in additional "Tech" upgrades

WHAT THE FLOB DID I JUST READ. ARE YOU KIDDING.

While I'm not as sold on the new TIEs (seem expensive for Sloops, a shield, and a couple more greens)

Maybe some of the new Tech upgrades will be awesome.

You know...when there are some.

Look I ain't gonna' lie that's pretty much the definition of Power Creep.

But screw it, why not? The tech is 30 years younger. Things have changed.

statwise they seem monstrously inefficient, truly the E-wing 2.0 (and not nearly as terribly overpriced as the knave, so thank the force for that) only not strictly better (autothrusters --> geared to taking multiple attacks, evade --> taking a single attack) outside the pricing for the generics

you're going to have to customize these guys to get your points' worth, because those naked stats are what the rookie pilot should have had to be viable

anyway, Poe is basically another Corran (continuing the theme between the t-70 and the E, Poe is better versus multiple ships and Corran against one big ****) I see him being quite competitive right out the box (especially if you're frightened of tlts)

everyone else, though? meh

I share concerns about the tie/fo though. apart from super wingman, I have no idea how they'll fit in

the answers might lie in additional "Tech" upgrades

I don't think they're all that inefficient. You're paying three points for both Shield and Engine Upgrades, without consuming the Modification slot. I'm no Juggler, but that seems to be right where they need to be. Add in Autothrusters, and their durability should be right where it needs to be.

Poe does look great, but he has limits. He won't do well with stress, and pilots like Carnor or Palob can mess with him. He's strong, but he'll have counters.

Agree that we'll need to see additional tech upgrades. I'm assuming those will show up in the missing SKUs.

WHAT THE FLOB DID I JUST READ. ARE YOU KIDDING.

What'd I say?

every powerful meta option has counters (except PWTs; their only counters are dice)

Poe joining their ranks wont make him any different (esp since he can corran are both so action dependent0

Look I ain't gonna' lie that's pretty much the definition of Power Creep.

But screw it, why not? The tech is 30 years younger. Things have changed.

new things seeming too expensive for the things they bring are the definition of power creep ?

or do you mean the T-70 X-wing, which is technically a completely different ship unrelated to the original X-wing in everything but name, outperforming the original X-wing which is widely regarded as far less than optimal

seems less powercreep and more balanced creep

or, it would be if the B-wing hadn't already addressed that issue. the T-70 X-wing is more of its own thing i.t.o ship class and pricing (closest parallel being the E-wing)

Look I ain't gonna' lie that's pretty much the definition of Power Creep.

But screw it, why not? The tech is 30 years younger. Things have changed.

Its because of this that i'm only going to do games in an era specific fashion. When I play a game i'm either taking full galactic empire, or full first order. And i'd expect my opponent to do the same. I don't like the idea of the old ships being with the new, not only would the ships look weird together on the table...but it kind of breaks the childish immersion factor. I go through all the trouble of putting a starfield on the table and scenery, so it also matters that the ships belong together!

every powerful meta option has counters (except PWTs; their only counters are dice)

Poe joining their ranks wont make him any different (esp since he can corran are both so action dependent0

Look I ain't gonna' lie that's pretty much the definition of Power Creep.

But screw it, why not? The tech is 30 years younger. Things have changed.

new things seeming too expensive for the things they bring are the definition of power creep ?

or do you mean the T-70 X-wing, which is technically a completely different ship unrelated to the original X-wing in everything but name, outperforming the original X-wing which is widely regarded as far less than optimal

seems less powercreep and more balanced creep

or, it would be if the B-wing hadn't already addressed that issue. the T-70 X-wing is more of its own thing i.t.o ship class and pricing (closest parallel being the E-wing)

The T-70 appears to be better than the T-65 in every single conceivable way. Even cost, when you consider the amazing package you're getting.

And I, personally, have no problem with that. Tech should advance.

the t-70 being better than the t-65 is still not powercreep, however

see, powercreep would imply that the t-70 was better than every other option in the game even though it's clearly priced fairly

it can be argued to be superior to the t-65, but considering the t-65 was underpowered compared to the Tie Fighter it's not really powercreep when you design a new ship that can compete (more of just strict balancing)

so no powercreep, just FFG designing a ship free of the shackles of their earliest mistake. "Advancing tech" has literally nothing to do with it, the T-70 is priced and stated appropriately according to pure gameplay considerations that take the entire range of X-wing miniatures; not just the base ship. Basically, it is a.) new and b.) balanced.

Oh. Sorry then- my bad. I misunderstood the term.

The T-70 appears to be better than the T-65 in every single conceivable way. Even cost, when you consider the amazing package you're getting.

And I, personally, have no problem with that. Tech should advance.

Except that cost has nothing to do with tech. It's an abstract measurement of a ships gameplay capabilities for the purposes of game balance.

So the fact that it's a higher tech ship can give it all the advantages in the world, but it's cost should still reflect it's new capabilities in comparison to the older ships.

Power creep is when [new thing] better than [everything else]

Power creep is not when [new thing] is better than [1 thing that is mathematically shown to be sub par]

Yes, T-70 > T-65. But so is everything else. Lets see if T-70 > ALL before we start throwing the term power creep around.

Power creep is when [new thing] better than [everything else]

Power creep is not when [new thing] is better than [1 thing that is mathematically shown to be sub par]

Yes, T-70 > T-65. But so is everything else. Lets see if T-70 > ALL before we start throwing the term power creep around.

It's not even that, though. The T-70 won't eliminate T-65s from the table. All it will do is get more X-Wings on the table where the generic T-65s weren't appearing in the first place.

Power creep is when [new thing] better than [everything else]

Power creep is not when [new thing] is better than [1 thing that is mathematically shown to be sub par]

Yes, T-70 > T-65. But so is everything else. Lets see if T-70 > ALL before we start throwing the term power creep around.

Replacing the X-wing with the JJ model is not an X-wing fix.

It's a new ship

Not power creep if the points are fair for what you are getting.

Power creep is when [new thing] better than [everything else]

Power creep is not when [new thing] is better than [1 thing that is mathematically shown to be sub par]

Yes, T-70 > T-65. But so is everything else. Lets see if T-70 > ALL before we start throwing the term power creep around.

But... but the release of the Punisher means nobody's ever going to use Major Rhymer ever again! POWAR CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!111!!eleven111!!

I would like to see them do a reprinting of all the lesser/unused pilots with fixed point costs or something along the lines of what Juggler has suggested for various pilots.

So does this mean I may start seeing new core material across the table from me in tournaments? Are they legal?

Look I ain't gonna' lie that's pretty much the definition of Power Creep.

But screw it, why not? The tech is 30 years younger. Things have changed.

I see an Imperial A-wing and an better X-wing that costs more.

It seems some people on this forum call power creep if a ship isn't worse than an original TIE advanced.

And I, personally, have no problem with that. Tech should advance.

This is a game, not the real world, and making new ships simply better than their old counterparts is sloppy game design and I for one am extremely unhappy about it.