With the new imperial SD being speed 3, that leaves the Vic being the only ship with speed 2. Will anyone be running lists with the Vic? and if so whats the plan?

They still make cheap carriers. Plus, in general, they are cheaper enough than the ISD to likely see some play.

I don't know about you, but I think there's something to be said for the sheer inescapability that five Victory Class Star Destroyers in formation abreast represents.

Imagine a wall of Victories that reacts to your movement by encircling and bringing each of those front arcs to bear. Now remember that these ships aren't much easier to kill than an Imperial, and you can't focus fire on five ships like you could on three.

Sometimes you also have to think in terms of how affordable a ship is to lose. When an Imperial leaves the table it's taking a lot more potential dice with it than a Victory.

I don't think the Victory will fall out of use here any more than it did in the lore. Victories weren't as powerful or as fast as their big brother the Imperial, but they found their role in numerous battles regardless.

Personally I think they are great ships to flank your ISD with in a flying V to protect its vulnerable rear section from flankers (Something it's particularly vulnerable to with that speed 3 and no automatic 2 yaw clicks) even using their medium bases to literally obstruct any shot at the Imperial's rear, or ready to mop up wounded ships limping away from the Imperial's front arc.

You could even supplement those three ships with an Engine Tech Demolisher lurking in the rear, ready to surge forward and tackle as necessary. (Though I haven't checked the points on that, it may be too expensive with the upgrades)

I imagine you will see vics with bomber wings escorted by raiders

I imagine you will see vics with bomber wings escorted by raiders

Dominator with Leading Shots/XI7 and Warlord with H9 or Heavy Turbolasers and flanking Raiders packing Overload Pulse.

Sounds pretty brutal, and high on activations (Something I'm not used to as an Imperial player)

I haven't built any fleet on the known information about the ISD, but I have no problem running one ISD and then flanking with VSDs. And lots of fighter squadrons!

I just put an IVV list up. Fully intending on keeping up with the Strengths of the Victory in its own right.

Despite being slower, the firepower isn't that much less than an ISD for significantly fewer amount of points. Those 30-50 pts are worth the extra speed, few extra dice, extra shield, and extra defense token.

I don't know about you, but I think there's something to be said for the sheer inescapability that five Victory Class Star Destroyers in formation abreast represents.

I really want to try this now...5 VSD1s all abreast (running Motti), slow rolling to the center...so many things will end up in the front arc of multiple VSDs

Yeah, I think I'll be trying to buy VSDs off people wanting to raise some cash for ISDs.

Yeah, I think I'll be trying to buy VSDs off people wanting to raise some cash for ISDs.

The Victory II should be faster than the Vic-I. It has completely different engines specifically because the old Vic-Is were considered too slow.

the ISD looks like a monster, but remember that the ISD-2 is 26 points away from 2 VSD-1s

like I said before, the default game design decision in these cases is:

the cheaper variant is more cost efficient, the more expensive variant is a more stable platform for upgrades

seems to be the case with these guys. The ISD offers notable improvements to the VSD, at the notable cost of 37 and 35 points respectively and a fatter arse to navigate with.

the cheaper variant is more cost efficient, the more expensive variant is a more stable platform for upgrades

Is it, though? The ISD-I has two offensive retrofits, no shield upgrade, and a terrifyingly powerful close in battery. It doesn't seem more efficient so much as capable of being specialized toward different battlefield roles entirely, with that black die lending itself well to point defense re-route.

I'd argue that the blue dice on the ISD II, with their zero blank faces, are the efficiency you're purchasing by dropping a few more points in, or at least more reliable damage if less overall.

I think FGD was talking about the VSD as the cheaper variant, and the ISD as the more expensive variant

I think that one big advantage that the VSD has over an ISD (yes !) is that you can fit more like FGD said. I think that early in the ISD's life, we're going to see people trying to get the most out of their ISD by throwing it forward and then losing its front arc for the rest of the game. An ISD without its front arc, much like a VSD without its front arc, is a much less scary endeavour to take on.

I can also see the VSD becoming a more defensive platform while the ISD becomes more offensive, due to higher speed and most important, better maneuvrability.

Well the great thing about the ISD 1 is that it is deadly at all ranges. I like that.

Well the great thing about the ISD 1 is that it is deadly at all ranges. I like that.

deadly for it's cost, though?

eh................................

definitely a case for the VSD-1 being more efficient

they both suck outside the front, but you're paying much less for the VSD

I don't think the Victory will fall out of use here any more than it did in the lore. Victories weren't as powerful or as fast as their big brother the Imperial, but they found their role in numerous battles regardless.

Personally I think they are great ships to flank your ISD with in a flying V to protect its vulnerable rear section from flankers (Something it's particularly vulnerable to with that speed 3 and no automatic 2 yaw clicks) even using their medium bases to literally obstruct any shot at the Imperial's rear, or ready to mop up wounded ships limping away from the Imperial's front arc.

You could even supplement those three ships with an Engine Tech Demolisher lurking in the rear, ready to surge forward and tackle as necessary. (Though I haven't checked the points on that, it may be too expensive with the upgrades)

You can. An ISD-I with Vader, those sweet tractor beams, and advanced projectors runs 168 162. Add two naked Vic-Is for cover (73 + 73), and a Glad I Demolisher with ACMs and Engine Techs (81), for a grand total of 395 389. Swapping the ISD-I for a II would mean dropping something (downgrading Vader for Screed, dropping ETs, etc) take it to 399. That's an awful lot of dice, hull, and huge overlapping front arcs of nastiness...

Or, you could drop Demolisher, and run Motti, an ISD-II, and three VSD-IIs for 399. The insanity...

Edit : as Drasnighta pointed out, no advanced projectors on the ISD-I.

I don't think the Victory will fall out of use here any more than it did in the lore. Victories weren't as powerful or as fast as their big brother the Imperial, but they found their role in numerous battles regardless.

Personally I think they are great ships to flank your ISD with in a flying V to protect its vulnerable rear section from flankers (Something it's particularly vulnerable to with that speed 3 and no automatic 2 yaw clicks) even using their medium bases to literally obstruct any shot at the Imperial's rear, or ready to mop up wounded ships limping away from the Imperial's front arc.

You could even supplement those three ships with an Engine Tech Demolisher lurking in the rear, ready to surge forward and tackle as necessary. (Though I haven't checked the points on that, it may be too expensive with the upgrades)

You can. An ISD-I with Vader, those sweet tractor beams, and advanced projectors runs 168. Add two naked Vic-Is for cover (73 + 73), and a Glad I Demolisher with ACMs and Engine Techs (81), for a grand total of 395. Swapping the ISD-I for a II would mean dropping something (downgrading Vader for Screed, dropping ETs, etc), but that's an awful lot of dice, hull, and huge overlapping front arcs of nastiness...

An ISD-1 cannot take Advanced Projectors. It has 2 Offensive Refit slots, whereas the ISD-2 has the Offensive and Defensive... So you'd have to go with the Screed Option listed.

Don't forget how great it will be to have a couple cheap little Raiders zipping around.

I don't think the Victory will fall out of use here any more than it did in the lore. Victories weren't as powerful or as fast as their big brother the Imperial, but they found their role in numerous battles regardless.

Personally I think they are great ships to flank your ISD with in a flying V to protect its vulnerable rear section from flankers (Something it's particularly vulnerable to with that speed 3 and no automatic 2 yaw clicks) even using their medium bases to literally obstruct any shot at the Imperial's rear, or ready to mop up wounded ships limping away from the Imperial's front arc.

You could even supplement those three ships with an Engine Tech Demolisher lurking in the rear, ready to surge forward and tackle as necessary. (Though I haven't checked the points on that, it may be too expensive with the upgrades)

You can. An ISD-I with Vader, those sweet tractor beams, and advanced projectors runs 168. Add two naked Vic-Is for cover (73 + 73), and a Glad I Demolisher with ACMs and Engine Techs (81), for a grand total of 395. Swapping the ISD-I for a II would mean dropping something (downgrading Vader for Screed, dropping ETs, etc), but that's an awful lot of dice, hull, and huge overlapping front arcs of nastiness...

An ISD-1 cannot take Advanced Projectors. It has 2 Offensive Refit slots, whereas the ISD-2 has the Offensive and Defensive... So you'd have to go with the Screed Option listed.

Doh, my bad. So dropping APs, that's 387 for four ships, 33 hull, Vader, tractors, Demolisher title, many dice... and room for a little season to taste.

Don't forget how great it will be to have a couple cheap little Raiders zipping around.

Screed is going to pair nicely with Raiders packing Overload Pulse

'Screed: He's Not Just Good For ACMs Anymore!'

Will the VSD be phased out for the ISD. . . I don't think so personally.

Here is a list that I think is pretty good.

+++ Wave 2 carrier build (397pts) +++

+ Imperial Star Destroyer (140pts) +

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (140pts) [Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts), •Admiral Motti (24pts)]

+ Victory Star Destroyer (158pts) +

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (79pts) [Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts)]

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (79pts) [Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts)]

+ Squadrons (99pts) +

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

•"Howlrunner" (16pts)

•Major Rhymer (16pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Precision Strike]

Defense Objective [Fleet Ambush]

Navigation Objective [Dangerous Territory]

The VicSD is out. Why take a Vic, if you can get an ISD for only 30 points more? Speed 3 makes all the difference. And there is an increased chance of one-shotting a smaller ship, which is sizeable advantage in an I go, You go system.

Before the ISD, there was a trade-off. Smaller ships are more maneuverable, have more dice and more attacks to pull defence tokens. Bigger ships have more staying power, shoot back till the last hull point and have less dice, but a more concentrated fire power. An ISD with 4 (four) blue dice without upgrades can overcome tokens just as well, has the concentrated fire power, the staying power (even crits, the bane of big ships are less frightening) and has speed 3 to make the attack connect. Did I forget something? Yes, a higher squadron value. With I go, you go, the attack of the first wing of squadrons can be crucial. When Darth Vader, Soontir Fel, Mauler Mithel, Howlrunner and two more attack together, there will be some defenders, who won't shoot back.

The VicSD is out. Why take a Vic, if you can get an ISD for only 30 points more? Speed 3 makes all the difference. And there is an increased chance of one-shotting a smaller ship, which is sizeable advantage in an I go, You go system.

Before the ISD, there was a trade-off. Smaller ships are more maneuverable, have more dice and more attacks to pull defence tokens. Bigger ships have more staying power, shoot back till the last hull point and have less dice, but a more concentrated fire power. An ISD with 4 (four) blue dice without upgrades can overcome tokens just as well, has the concentrated fire power, the staying power (even crits, the bane of big ships are less frightening) and has speed 3 to make the attack connect. Did I forget something? Yes, a higher squadron value. With I go, you go, the attack of the first wing of squadrons can be crucial. When Darth Vader, Soontir Fel, Mauler Mithel, Howlrunner and two more attack together, there will be some defenders, who won't shoot back.

Like I said, when playing Rebels with Corvette and Neb Bs, I'm not scared of Speed 3 Imperial ships, because after that I'll just zoom by and take sweet sweet shots in its rear arc. It's much harder to flank a Speed 1 Victory class that dances around you than it is to flank a Gladiator at Speed 3.