so the rules say that you roll 2 dice and suffer any hits rolled when you overlap a token. Say you overlap all 3, do you roll 6 dice all at once or 2 dice at a time? Is there anything in the rules that says you couldn't do it either way? I looked but didn't see anything. I'm not sure it would matter much but I know personally I would want 3 separate rolls. Call me crazy but I wouldn't want to be rolling 6 dice all at once against myself haha.

I also have a question, if you roll crit, does it not cause damage?

I think to save time you would roll 6. (2 for each) unless there were some ability that allows you to cancel a damage but I can't think of any way you could at this time.

If you want to get technical then you would roll 2 at a time but I am sure that even if a ship was destroyed by the 1st cluster mine token if it overlapped all 3 then all 3 would detonate no matter which one destroyed the ship.

I also have a question, if you roll crit, does it not cause damage?

You only count hits.

So the amount of damage done by a single mine is 2((3/8 * 5/8) + 3/8) ?

well then i think its my turn. i don´t know whether anyone tried this with deathrain but at vassal this 3 bank movement after deploying a bomb with deathrain seems to work http://imgur.com/O63kOIH

however i just tried it for real and, beside the fact that the guides in the mine token are a little wider than the 1-straight template and you can move them slightly left and right, in practice this manouver seems not to work at all. its just barely overlapping it but they overlap.

anyone else tried this?

I think to save time you would roll 6. (2 for each) unless there were some ability that allows you to cancel a damage but I can't think of any way you could at this time.

If you want to get technical then you would roll 2 at a time but I am sure that even if a ship was destroyed by the 1st cluster mine token if it overlapped all 3 then all 3 would detonate no matter which one destroyed the ship.

I also have a question, if you roll crit, does it not cause damage?

No, crits do not count.

The cluster mines has more potential for damage with up to 6 hits and more area covered. The proximity mines can do critical hits and have a better chance of doing damage rolling 3 dice and counting crits but it is unlikely to do 6 damage, (would need 3 crits and each on a direct hit or minor explosion that procs.)

Ok that's what I thought, pretty much you can roll 2 at a time or all at once. Thanks

I just got my ships and haven't had time to read through all the new rules yet. Does each mine in the cluster mine drop trigger independently, or do they all explode at once when a ship overlaps just one of them (rolling damage only for the one it overlapped)? The reason I ask is because of the logistics of trying to drop the cluster mine multiple times. If I have extra munitions and drop a cluster mine. Assuming I don't have extra copies of cluster mines, I can't drop the cluster mines again until all three get run over by someone.

I just got my ships and haven't had time to read through all the new rules yet. Does each mine in the cluster mine drop trigger independently, or do they all explode at once when a ship overlaps just one of them (rolling damage only for the one it overlapped)? The reason I ask is because of the logistics of trying to drop the cluster mine multiple times. If I have extra munitions and drop a cluster mine. Assuming I don't have extra copies of cluster mines, I can't drop the cluster mines again until all three get run over by someone.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

So the amount of damage done by a single mine is 2((3/8 * 5/8) + 3/8) ?

Expected value of damage is 3/8+3/8 (or .75 damage per mine)

Actual probability is 9/64 for two damage, 25/64 for none and 30/64 for one.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

Well the card states that you roll 2 dice for each token that's overlapped, so my guess is you would roll 2 dice, hit blank, destroyed, remove the other 2 tokens. You overlapped them so they would detonate no matter what. Even if you removed your ship after the first detonation they were still overlapped at one point when they triggered.

... if you had already placed a cluster mine that has not been triggered then you would be unable to drop a second one since you don't have the templates. You would need to buy another expansion for the second set.

Luckily enough, each side cluster mine is the same size as a dial. Proxy it.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

The tokens detonate when the template or base overlaps them. Since placing the template and placing the base are two different steps during the activation phase, it is possible that a ship could be destroyed before it detonates all the tokens.

For example, you place down the template on two of the mines. Before you place your ship at the end of the template to cmplete the move (which we'll say would have overlapped the third mine) the first two mines detonate. Even if just one detonating was sufficient to destroy the ship the template still overlapped multiple tokens and that is the trigger condition. If this destroys the ship, you never get to step 3 of the activation phase where you'd place the base and detonate the third mine.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

I'm fairly certain that the ship completes it's maneuver first, THEN rolls for damage. Kinda sucks, but all three would proc and be removed. Might be a neat little trick if you have a 1-hp guy and need those mines cleared so as to avoid injuring the healthy ships, I guess.

... if you had already placed a cluster mine that has not been triggered then you would be unable to drop a second one since you don't have the templates. You would need to buy another expansion for the second set.

Luckily enough, each side cluster mine is the same size as a dial. Proxy it.

Only thing is if you proxied a dial in place of the mine the spread would be way wider. The center mine drops first and on each side has a crescent shape where the other 2 mines fit into. If you used 3 dials they would end up a good distance wider. For casual play it wouldn't be a big deal but for tourneys, no way in hell ide allow that haha.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

I'm fairly certain that the ship completes it's maneuver first, THEN rolls for damage. Kinda sucks, but all three would proc and be removed. Might be a neat little trick if you have a 1-hp guy and need those mines cleared so as to avoid injuring the healthy ships, I guess.

"When a bomb token detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped that token rolls 2 attack dice and suffers all Hits rolled. Then discard that token."

Notice it says "moved" and "overlapped" which are past tense indicating the maneuver was completed first before detonating. All 3 detonate IMO.

Also could this situation be similar to when a ship receives damage exceeding its hull value? You don't stop taking damage cards once your destroyed you take all that were dealt. So in this instance, just because you were destroyed by the first mine doesn't mean the damage doesn't count for the other 2, they all detonate immediately but the dice rolled separate.

Marinealver brings up an interesting point.

If you roll all six, then all 3 tokens detonate and are removed.

What if a 1HP ship overlaps all three, but you roll each cluster separately, you could destroy the ship on the first cluster.

In the second case, would the ship be removed from the board and not detonate the other clusters?

I'm fairly certain that the ship completes it's maneuver first, THEN rolls for damage. Kinda sucks, but all three would proc and be removed. Might be a neat little trick if you have a 1-hp guy and need those mines cleared so as to avoid injuring the healthy ships, I guess.

While this is the most intuitive answer, I believe that if you read the rulebook you'll notice that placing the template down is in step 2 of the activation phase while executing the maneuver is in step 3. The trigger condition is not on executing maneuvers, it is on template or ship overlap, which happens in two separate steps allowing a for a ship to be destroyed before it makes it to the next step.

Think of it like if you ran over an asteroid and were destroyed, you wouldn't still get to perform actions or check your stress.

... if you had already placed a cluster mine that has not been triggered then you would be unable to drop a second one since you don't have the templates. You would need to buy another expansion for the second set.

Luckily enough, each side cluster mine is the same size as a dial. Proxy it.

Only thing is if you proxied a dial in place of the mine the spread would be way wider. The center mine drops first and on each side has a crescent shape where the other 2 mines fit into. If you used 3 dials they would end up a good distance wider. For casual play it wouldn't be a big deal but for tourneys, no way in hell ide allow that haha.

You just stick a maneuver template in the guides for the center mine proxy, and proxy the sides with dials.

Now, if you're really in a situation where you dropped two sets of Cluster Mines, and both go an extended amount of time undetonated, requiring proxies for more than just a moment, you are in a different kind of cluster* situation.

[the rulebook you'll notice that placing the template down is in step 2 of the activation phase while executing the maneuver is in step 3.

Yes, but because of the possibility of ship overlaps you have to complete the maneuver before you know if the template conts as overlapping. According to the FAQ, if a ship overlaps another ship and is moved back, the part of the template that it moves back over does not count for overlapping of things. That shows that you have to complete a maneuver before determine whether an overlap has occurred.

Each mine that is overlapped will trigger. The real question is if you drop the mine on multiple ships, can you trigger and resolve one template before you choose which ship the second hits, or you you have to allocate all 3 detonations before rolling damage with any of them?

[the rulebook you'll notice that placing the template down is in step 2 of the activation phase while executing the maneuver is in step 3.

Yes, but because of the possibility of ship overlaps you have to complete the maneuver before you know if the template conts as overlapping. According to the FAQ, if a ship overlaps another ship and is moved back, the part of the template that it moves back over does not count for overlapping of things. That shows that you have to complete a maneuver before determine whether an overlap has occurred.

Each mine that is overlapped will trigger. The real question is if you drop the mine on multiple ships, can you trigger and resolve one template before you choose which ship the second hits, or you you have to allocate all 3 detonations before rolling damage with any of them?

Hadn't thought of that, that is an intriguing question. I forget how that works exactly. For instance, deathrain plops his cluster mines right on top of 2 bwings. One of the tokens is overlapped by both bwings. Does the token detonate as soon as one of the 2 bwings moves or does it detonate right away as soon as deathrain drops it? If it is right away then my guess is you choose who suffers the damage. If it's as soon as one of them moves then my guess is it's the first bwing that moves suffers the damage.

Definitely deserves clarifying though from ffg.

I don't think that applies because that is only in cases where the ship would overlap another ship.

... if you had already placed a cluster mine that has not been triggered then you would be unable to drop a second one since you don't have the templates. You would need to buy another expansion for the second set.

Luckily enough, each side cluster mine is the same size as a dial. Proxy it.

Actually a little bit smaller.

[the rulebook you'll notice that placing the template down is in step 2 of the activation phase while executing the maneuver is in step 3.

Yes, but because of the possibility of ship overlaps you have to complete the maneuver before you know if the template conts as overlapping. According to the FAQ, if a ship overlaps another ship and is moved back, the part of the template that it moves back over does not count for overlapping of things. That shows that you have to complete a maneuver before determine whether an overlap has occurred.

Each mine that is overlapped will trigger. The real question is if you drop the mine on multiple ships, can you trigger and resolve one template before you choose which ship the second hits, or you you have to allocate all 3 detonations before rolling damage with any of them?

Hadn't thought of that, that is an intriguing question. I forget how that works exactly. For instance, deathrain plops his cluster mines right on top of 2 bwings. One of the tokens is overlapped by both bwings. Does the token detonate as soon as one of the 2 bwings moves or does it detonate right away as soon as deathrain drops it? If it is right away then my guess is you choose who suffers the damage. If it's as soon as one of them moves then my guess is it's the first bwing that moves suffers the damage.

Definitely deserves clarifying though from ffg.

From the FAQ:

Note that a Proximity Mine token that is dropped on a ship is placed under the ship’s base and does immediately detonate.

[the rulebook you'll notice that placing the template down is in step 2 of the activation phase while executing the maneuver is in step 3.

Yes, but because of the possibility of ship overlaps you have to complete the maneuver before you know if the template conts as overlapping. According to the FAQ, if a ship overlaps another ship and is moved back, the part of the template that it moves back over does not count for overlapping of things. That shows that you have to complete a maneuver before determine whether an overlap has occurred.

Each mine that is overlapped will trigger. The real question is if you drop the mine on multiple ships, can you trigger and resolve one template before you choose which ship the second hits, or you you have to allocate all 3 detonations before rolling damage with any of them?

Hadn't thought of that, that is an intriguing question. I forget how that works exactly. For instance, deathrain plops his cluster mines right on top of 2 bwings. One of the tokens is overlapped by both bwings. Does the token detonate as soon as one of the 2 bwings moves or does it detonate right away as soon as deathrain drops it? If it is right away then my guess is you choose who suffers the damage. If it's as soon as one of them moves then my guess is it's the first bwing that moves suffers the damage.

Definitely deserves clarifying though from ffg.

From the FAQ:

Note that a Proximity Mine token that is dropped on a ship is placed under the ship’s base and does immediately detonate.

Ok then ya, you'll have to determine which ship will be rolling for damage IMO.