Yes, very much and I feel no guilt flying them compared to the Super Chewie list I flew in the early days of the Fat PWTs meta. Flying TLT ships is not like flying Fat PWTs. Yes they don't have to worry about keeping ships in their front arcs but they're generally slower and much easier to catch and have donut holes. Those reasons are enough to make them more challenging to fly and harder to keep in formation such that they can cover each others R1 weakness. Compare that to the Fat Chewie I flew before, which have none of those weaknesses, I felt almost fearless; as long as I don't get boxed in, which wasn't much of a problem either with EU, I was able to rain death upon my opponent.

Multiple TLTs are a strong counter against those fat PWTs but can be countered by a larger variety of other lists (AutoT arcdodgers, classic swarms, HLC+ Brobots). Gone are the days where the only way to beat a PWT list is to bring your own PWT or fly Whipser/Echo and vice versa. I agree with those who have said that TLTs will open up the meta and I look forward to that.

As for everyone's favorite arc dodger, Soontir Fel, he still has very little to fear from TLTs; AutoT + SD will keep him alive for a long time, throw in Palpatine and he can tank like a boss. All the games that I've played or watched Fel was generally able to shirk off those TLT shots. 4 x TLTs list might still get to him but you have other lists that can beat that. Tie Phantoms + SJs are gonna be the bane of TLTs and I'm not looking forward to facing them.

In my current list I'm fielding 2 x Golds with TLTs to deal with PWTs and VI Ten + Mangler to provide cover and hunt down high agility arc dodgers like Soontir or Whisper. If they get too close to my Y-wings they can drop Seismics to deter pursuers. To finish the list off I added a Bandit as blocker and fodder. So far I'm getting a lot of satisfaction from this list especially when I'm able to deny my opponent any form of easy engagements by having my ships covering each other's backs.

I do enjoy playing them for a few reasons:

1.) Even broken stuff that I complain about is fun to try out every once a while. The time I played Dash I enjoyed it even though Super Dash is game ruining. God mode is fun every once and a while.

2.) They're new.

3.) There is /some/ nuance to flying them. Not a lot but enough to be bearable.

4.) They counter Fat Turrets and that's great. Anything to not have to face a meta dominated by +50% fat turrets.

5.) The counters to them are massed firepower from conventional arc based lists, and a wide variety of things should well against them. Flying TLT's and beating fat turrets from the meta encourages list variety by making the interesting things that counter TLT lists better meta choices.

I find your lack of skill hilarious, and that of your opponents if you think Dash is god mode. TLTs are fun. I usually run interceptors and have since they came out, back when people on the boards thought they were crap. I have never found PWT (still hate this acromyn) OP and constantly beat them even before AT was a thing. Never understood all the hate on the boards. The current list I am running with a TLT is 2 Kirz (cartel marauders?), a spice runner with TLT, and Guri LW, AT, AdvS. Haven't lost a ship with this load out yet. I don't think I would enjoy 4x TLT but I do think I'm going to try a 2x Y and Kath list here shortly with them. So there are lots of options out there to use with them, just don't go cookie cutter and you will be fine.

Remember Fat Hans was not so fat until the Phantom came in and swept out the swarms.

The two things happened at about the same time but Han would have gotten Fat without the Phantom. The Tantive dropped at about a month before the Phantoms and Wave 4. Z-95s came in that wave as well. Han Shoots First was already pretty chubby and being able to take 3 Z-95s for 36 points instead of needing to spend 42 points for a pair of rookies gave him room to grow. The extra ship made dealing with swarms a little easier as did being able to squeeze in an Engine Upgrade allowing him to dodge a lot of the shots that would come from a swarm without needing to give anything up. C-3PO would have replaced Chewbacca regardless, as he tends to provide at least as much extra durability (and usually more) and costs less.

Even if the Phantom wouldn't have dropped, Fat Han would have caught on. It was better at dealing with swarms than HSF was, better at dealing with Biggs Walks The Dogs, and it could beat HSF. It could beat lists that might have been more popular if the Phantom hadn't existed like Soontir with a Howlrunner Miniswarm, or Soontir, Turr, and Carnor.

Remember Fat Hans was not so fat until the Phantom came in and swept out the swarms.

Except they were. HSF + its evolutions, remember?

I look upon TLT as... puzzles. Some people like to make them. Me, I enjoy solving them. There is nothing quite as satisfactory my IGs keeping a Falcon stressed and ionned at range 3 or in the case of TLT, creating the conditions where the bumps and arcs work in my favor.

Yes, they are scary, but where would the fun be if I won all the time?

I have never found PWT (still hate this acromyn) OP and constantly beat them even before AT was a thing. Never understood all the hate on the boards.

Fat turrets are popular in tournament play in large part because they're reliable. They've got few agility dice, so there's relatively little variance with regard to how many shots they can take before they blow up. Stacking upgrades on them means their red dice are usually highly modified, so there's consistency with regard to the amount of damage they put out too. Throw in the fact that they're well set-up to take advantage in a couple of quirks in the rules (MoV and the large displacement caused by a big-ship boost) and they're hard to kill cheaply, which is important when you're playing 4-6 rounds of a tournament where a couple of runs of bad luck might knock you out.

People (generally) don't hate PWTs (DEAL WITH IT! B)) because they're too powerful. They hate them because they're too dominant. As in, too popular and too homogeneous. Most of the people complaining about the turret meta know how to beat them, it's just that to a degree how to beat them is "throw a wall of dice at them" which some people see (somewhat understandably) as ****ing boring, particularly if you're having to do it in more than half of your games at a tournament.

Yes, I enjoy TLTs, even though they're a challenge to face for sure. I'll adapt... and that's great! Something new to consider or tackle. That's a huge part of the fun of this game: replayability, variations, combinations, diversity.

Also, just repeating endlessly that PWTs are broken or poorly designed doesn't contribute anything useful in my opinion. I don't think they are broken or poorly designed at all either. They're a part of the Star Wars universe and of this game. Deal with it. Accept it. Or move on/along. They're not unbeatable. They're usually about half of the list too, so it can be a gamble. And, as I've said a few times already, you still need to maneuver well to make them work. They can be blocked like any other ship too.

Even turrets have to fly, no one has a white 0 yet. Your PWT will evaporate if you let the more agile foes get good positioning.

5 A's with Autothrusters and VI rule TLT squads from what I have seen.

Nothing is more agile that a dumb fat turret with engine upgrade and/or large ship barrel roll. There is nothing more agile than that perhaps for arguably daredevil Tycho. And once you've sunk 30+ points into an A-Wing you've auto lost against most things.

Why limit yourself to either or? I choose both and it's very rewarding. Corran and Y's are a blast to fly as individuals and strategic list decisions.

I'm running a scum list with Hwk-290 and Three Z-95's, I think that this allows for the best of both worlds. You get that formation satisfaction as well as the turret consistency; it's a very fun way to play the game.

I had a blast flying around "Lawnmowers" (serrate's list: Rebel Operative HWK + TLT + Recon Spec x3, Roark + ABT + Crewbacca) in a TCA match the other night. It is a real challenge to get the range band stuff done correctly, to negotiate with that awful hawk dial, to properly time the 'scatter' maneuver (opening: fly them in format; crisis moment: scatter them out of formation at the appropriate crisis moment).

...it's also a bit of mean fun to melt ships with those TLTs ...

I couldn't tell you, because only TIEs are worth of being used by me, and we don't have any **** turrets yet!

#wheresmyaggressor

Even turrets have to fly, no one has a white 0 yet. Your PWT will evaporate if you let the more agile foes get good positioning.

5 A's with Autothrusters and VI rule TLT squads from what I have seen.

Why VI? You're already going to beat the PS of the ships that get used in Full TLT squads without it and PS 5 doesn't really do much for you. You'd be better off with most of the other 1 point EPTs on them than you would be with VI.

Like Lightning Reflexes!

I always find it fascinating reading these threads, the people that dislike Turrets are also the most likely to play Interceptors and Phantoms. The problem is that if you take away turrets from the game, the only thing that would see table time would be Interceptors Phantoms and the occasional Corran. It would be a sea of Arc dodgers with even less meta diversity than the current meta.

This. I don't fly turrets much, I don't hate them, but a lot of people who do are flying triple action interceptors or other ships that can boost and barrel roll or decloak after movement. somehow, they don't see that as overpowered or broken, but I gotta tell you, when you are flying 3 or 4 generic rebel pilots, fel or turr seems pretty unfair. I think that being able to decloak, then boost, then barrel roll if you need to, takes a lot of skill out of the game. If you plan wrong or fly badly, just take 2 more moves until you like where you are at.

So, yeah, this. Again, I rarely fly turrets, or triple 9 interceptors, but the same argument people make about turrets taking away skill from the gme sounds funny coming out of their mouth while they are moving last, then moving twice more.

does that mean I hate interceptors? not at all. I accept that both of these are part of the game.

I hear you there. I feel like people think flying PS9 arc dodgers makes them feel skilled, because thematically it takes a lot of skill to fly a lightweight, shieldless fighter that relies on speed for defense. The rules in the game give you a lot to work with, though. When I was teaching my buddy to play, he referred to Soontir Fel as "training wheels".

compared to a PS 9 PWT, arc-dodgers ala soontir do take far more skill to not perform horribly with (except when navigating obstacles due to base size, although obstacles are a risk because it limits your dial heavily next turn)

this is because arc-dodgers ala Soontir are a "**** up and you're ******" kinda deal. One bump and they're toast. PWTs have no such concerns, packing action independent defensive and offensive upgrades as well as not giving half a **** about their facing. While a soontir can be forced away from an engagement, negating his contribution or a round, a han or cheri simply does not have to make that decision. They are, far and away, the most forgiving and easy to use ships in the game (not counting the PWTs that are horribly inefficient, ofc, ala the yt-2400, K-wing, and ORS).

ships such as IGs are more forgiving than soonts, but combination of arcs and large-bases put a heavy premium on proper positioning, as goofing up can lead an aggressor out of the game for a few crucial turns; exposing the rest of his list to the enemy

except now with TLTs, PWTs are going to be forced to maneuver in new ways in order to minimize that shots they're taking and pile on the range 1 bonuses where they have a decided advantage. It won't be as simple as move wherever you want and then boost out of any arcs you missed anymore.

personally, though, as fragile as Soontir is, I find the game gets much more difficult the more ships you have to manage and plan ahead with. This remains mostly true with 4 TLT ships, but the nature of the turret takes a huge chunck of the strain off (but not too much, with low PS and minimum range). Thankfully, the ships involved are so slow and clunky that they become hilariously predictable if not moved with a plan in mind. Predictable TLTs not taking advantage of obstacles and each other are TLTs that probably won't be getting many shots off.

nowhere near as fun as Ks, though

compared to a PS 9 PWT, arc-dodgers ala soontir do take far more skill to not perform horribly with (except when navigating obstacles due to base size, although obstacles are a risk because it limits your dial heavily next turn)

this is because arc-dodgers ala Soontir are a "**** up and you're ******" kinda deal. One bump and they're toast. PWTs have no such concerns, packing action independent defensive and offensive upgrades as well as not giving half a **** about their facing. While a soontir can be forced away from an engagement, negating his contribution or a round, a han or cheri simply does not have to make that decision. They are, far and away, the most forgiving and easy to use ships in the game (not counting the PWTs that are horribly inefficient, ofc, ala the yt-2400, K-wing, and ORS).

ships such as IGs are more forgiving than soonts, but combination of arcs and large-bases put a heavy premium on proper positioning, as goofing up can lead an aggressor out of the game for a few crucial turns; exposing the rest of his list to the enemy

except now with TLTs, PWTs are going to be forced to maneuver in new ways in order to minimize that shots they're taking and pile on the range 1 bonuses where they have a decided advantage. It won't be as simple as move wherever you want and then boost out of any arcs you missed anymore.

personally, though, as fragile as Soontir is, I find the game gets much more difficult the more ships you have to manage and plan ahead with. This remains mostly true with 4 TLT ships, but the nature of the turret takes a huge chunck of the strain off (but not too much, with low PS and minimum range). Thankfully, the ships involved are so slow and clunky that they become hilariously predictable if not moved with a plan in mind. Predictable TLTs not taking advantage of obstacles and each other are TLTs that probably won't be getting many shots off.

nowhere near as fun as Ks, though

compared to a PS 9 PWT, arc-dodgers ala soontir do take far more skill to not perform horribly with (except when navigating obstacles due to base size, although obstacles are a risk because it limits your dial heavily next turn)

this is because arc-dodgers ala Soontir are a "**** up and you're ******" kinda deal. One bump and they're toast. PWTs have no such concerns, packing action independent defensive and offensive upgrades as well as not giving half a **** about their facing. While a soontir can be forced away from an engagement, negating his contribution or a round, a han or cheri simply does not have to make that decision. They are, far and away, the most forgiving and easy to use ships in the game (not counting the PWTs that are horribly inefficient, ofc, ala the yt-2400, K-wing, and ORS).

ships such as IGs are more forgiving than soonts, but combination of arcs and large-bases put a heavy premium on proper positioning, as goofing up can lead an aggressor out of the game for a few crucial turns; exposing the rest of his list to the enemy

except now with TLTs, PWTs are going to be forced to maneuver in new ways in order to minimize that shots they're taking and pile on the range 1 bonuses where they have a decided advantage. It won't be as simple as move wherever you want and then boost out of any arcs you missed anymore.

personally, though, as fragile as Soontir is, I find the game gets much more difficult the more ships you have to manage and plan ahead with. This remains mostly true with 4 TLT ships, but the nature of the turret takes a huge chunck of the strain off (but not too much, with low PS and minimum range). Thankfully, the ships involved are so slow and clunky that they become hilariously predictable if not moved with a plan in mind. Predictable TLTs not taking advantage of obstacles and each other are TLTs that probably won't be getting many shots off.

nowhere near as fun as Ks, though

compared to a PS 9 PWT, arc-dodgers ala soontir do take far more skill to not perform horribly with (except when navigating obstacles due to base size, although obstacles are a risk because it limits your dial heavily next turn)

this is because arc-dodgers ala Soontir are a "**** up and you're ******" kinda deal. One bump and they're toast. PWTs have no such concerns, packing action independent defensive and offensive upgrades as well as not giving half a **** about their facing. While a soontir can be forced away from an engagement, negating his contribution or a round, a han or cheri simply does not have to make that decision. They are, far and away, the most forgiving and easy to use ships in the game (not counting the PWTs that are horribly inefficient, ofc, ala the yt-2400, K-wing, and ORS).

ships such as IGs are more forgiving than soonts, but combination of arcs and large-bases put a heavy premium on proper positioning, as goofing up can lead an aggressor out of the game for a few crucial turns; exposing the rest of his list to the enemy

except now with TLTs, PWTs are going to be forced to maneuver in new ways in order to minimize that shots they're taking and pile on the range 1 bonuses where they have a decided advantage. It won't be as simple as move wherever you want and then boost out of any arcs you missed anymore.

personally, though, as fragile as Soontir is, I find the game gets much more difficult the more ships you have to manage and plan ahead with. This remains mostly true with 4 TLT ships, but the nature of the turret takes a huge chunck of the strain off (but not too much, with low PS and minimum range). Thankfully, the ships involved are so slow and clunky that they become hilariously predictable if not moved with a plan in mind. Predictable TLTs not taking advantage of obstacles and each other are TLTs that probably won't be getting many shots off.

nowhere near as fun as Ks, though