I read an old thread on this forum about overpowered decks. One poster said that it was easy to fix dwarves by just banning Dain, but that it was harder to fix Outlands. His suggestion was to ban the Anfalas Herdman, so that all outland allies remained squishy with one single hit point.

I think there is a better way: don't allow Outlands bonuses to stack. In other words, Knight of the Swan only gives Outlands allies +1 attack, regardless of whether you have one or all three in play. If you have all four types of allies in play, Outland allies get +1 willpower, +1 attack, +1 defense and +1 hit point.

This is a big nerf, but the Outlands deck should still be competitive. It is fairly easy to get one of each ally in play, and max out the bonus. A 2 cost ally with stats 2, 2, 2, 2 is still a really good ally.

1 cost Outland allies max stats: 1, 1, 1, 2.

2 cost Outland allies max stats: 2, 2, 2, 2.

3 cost Forlong (which refreshes every phase) max stats: 2, 2, 2, 4.

Hirluin the Fair max stats: 2, 2, 2, 5.

I don't quite get why would you want to "fix" them. It's not like they are broken. Yes, they are strong, and they are simple. But they do not break the game. And, unless you're some sort of power gamer who just can't refuse to play strong cards until they are officially nerfed, I don't see any problems with them.

I honestly don't think Outlands is overpowered. It was really strong in Against the Shadow, but it hasn't gotten any boosts since then. Meanwhile, Silvan and Ent decks have emerged that are quite strong. Rohan has turned into a solid deck with Theoden and Erkenbrand. Dwarves and secrecy have gotten some new cards to give them more options. Gandalf arrived to create some of the strongest decks.

So I don't think they are actually OP anymore. Outlands can be pretty boring to play if you're an experienced player, but they serve a purpose.

In my opinion they should have had a slightly higher resource cost. But that is neither here nor there. If you don't like them don't play them, I certainly don't, nor do I play dwarves either.

I agree that a deck type that is easy to build and play serves a purpose, but I still think that Outlands are overpowered. I played a couple of nightmare scenarios solo yesterday with the typical leadership mono-sphere Outlands deck, and just stomped them. The fact that their stats increase exponentially (one Ethir Swordsman: +2 willpower, two: +6 willpower, three: +12 willpower) means that it just goes bananas when enough number of allies are in play.

But to achieve that you need time and to survive, which is not that easy.

Note to myself: think of something.

In my opinion they should have had a slightly higher resource cost. But that is neither here nor there. If you don't like them don't play them, I certainly don't, nor do I play dwarves either.

Putting all 40+ Outlands and dwarves cards in a binder and hiding it somewhere where the sun never shines is of course an option. I just tried to suggest a way to make the Outlands cards interesting to play. I still like the art on the cards, and the general idea that people from remote parts of the Gondor kingdom gathers and becomes a formidable army.

It also depends a bit on multiplayer vs solo. In solo you can often afford to spend a few rounds ramping up as long as your threat is low enough and you have decent willpower (like Sam in a mono-leadership Outlands deck). In multiplayer you often need to hit the ground running and don't have the luxury of waiting until you have 4 or 5 allies in play. Also Outlands doesn't synergize with other people, which makes them weaker than Dwarves, Silvan, Gondor, Rohan, etc. in multiplayer.

I'm not sure if anyone else has listened to the podcast where Caleb describes the purpose of Outlands. There were a fair number of people playing the game that sent in complaints saying they legitimately did not like to build decks and just wanted to play. So with Outlands you can just put every card that says "Outlands" into one stack and call it a deck, and it will be strong and simple to play. Great to give to new players to the group as well, as they can feel strong and may be willing to play more and perhaps try more intricate decks like Silvan or Gandalf.

With that in mind, Outlands is pretty much where it should be and a nerf would go against the philosophy that it was built upon.

I have listened to this podcast (it was the CardboardOfTheRings interview, right?). After the Heirs of Numenor box many players complained that the game had become too hard, and I understand the reactions from the designers.

I don't have any problems with decks that are easy to build and play. But the Outlands deck has two flaws: It is too powerful, and it is a pain to keep track of all bonuses. When I have put an Outlands deck in the hands of new players, the reaction has been "Ok, this guy has willpower 2 right? No, sorry, forgot the bonus from these guys. Hmm, perhaps I need to save them to defend later, they have defense 2. Or 3? Let me think ... <two minutes later> ... Ok, I quest for 43."

I don't find Outlands bonuses hard to count. Just put allies of the same type together and you'll always know the exact bonus you're getting by just looking at them.

Regardless, you got my gears grinding, and here is what they spew out:

Please, ignore the placeholder art, I've had to make this quick.

I agree that a deck type that is easy to build and play serves a purpose, but I still think that Outlands are overpowered. I played a couple of nightmare scenarios solo yesterday with the typical leadership mono-sphere Outlands deck, and just stomped them. The fact that their stats increase exponentially (one Ethir Swordsman: +2 willpower, two: +6 willpower, three: +12 willpower) means that it just goes bananas when enough number of allies are in play.

If I may. I think it's polynomial only.

The amount of willpower you get from n Ethir Swordsmen equals 2n+n(n-1) which is n+n ²

Oh, cool cards, and great art that you have found for them! I especially like that you gave prince Imrahil an Outlands synergy.

One year ago, I used to think that Outlands were completely overpowered and broken. With time however I came to realize that it was the other decks during the AtS cycle that were too weak. Today, Outlands are a fine and "competitive" deck, on par with other modern staples. And they are not that easy to pilot in harder quests since you are especially vulnerable during the early rounds. Yeah the mechanics are a bit simplistic but it's also nice to watch those modifiers stack.

So I guess what needs fixing here is not Outlands but weaker traits or archetypes like Gondor or e.g. Mono-lore.

Hmm, another "Outlands were broken a year ago, but today other archetypes have caught up" reply. Perhaps I should start listening to what you say

Another way to put this is that Outlands were broken, and that the designers had no choice than to buff other archetypes to the same level to even it out. But it is probably too unfair.

Dwarves with Dain was the most powerful trait back in the Dwarrowdelf / Against the Shadow days. I have not used Dain for years, and thought it still was. Has it been caught up by other archetypes today as well?

Outlands weren't broken, it was the rest that was lagging behind, except for Dain, Glori and Boromir.

I use NM JDtA as a benchmark for decks. Dwarves are strong but modern stuff like Caldara or Elven decks give them a run for their money.

Please, ignore the placeholder art, I've had to make this quick..

Are you kidding?! That art is great!

Where is it from? And in such high quality! It looks aGoT-ish.

Who's the artist? Does he have a site? Or do FFG has some gallery?

Also, I love your idea. It's a really nice start for a rebalanced outlands trait released in a form of a small fanmade adventure pack or two; "Return to Anfalas".

I'd also like to see Hirulin revised, and maybe develop the Gondor synergy some more; in short make it a more complex, interesting and less straightforward trait. Just for us people interested in having another option/challenge in their deck building and play.

The designers haven't increased the power of other factions to try to "catch up" to Outlands. They just kept Outlands as a self contained deck that beginners can make with limited investment. Some power creep is inevitable in any expanding card game, and IMO the designers have done a great job of limiting power creep by expanding horizontally. But since Outlands hasn't gotten anything new, their power is constant while everything else is creeping.

I'm not sure how Dain compares to other factions, but he's definitely still in the top tier with Ents, Silvan, Gandalf/Elrond/Glorfindel, and some secrecy decks. Outlands might still be in there too, and Rohan isn't far behind. Although these all scale differently with the number of players.

"Boromir abuse/draw your whole deck" decks are the real deal and true top tier at the moment

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/175783-one-deck-to-rule-them-all-nightmare-edition/page-1

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/185588-beat-any-quest-during-first-turn-with-a-100-success-rate-and-end-with-a-score-of-0/page-1

Run an Outlands deck with Loragorn, Grima and Hirluin and it's no problem to draw your deck, dump a bunch on the table and stomp the quest. I'll occasionally bust them out for fun or to take on a really hard nightmare quest, but otherwise I leave them alone. I like the designers current approach: as little errata as possible. It's a co-op game, so let the players police themselves. You don't like Outlands, you're tired of Spirfindel, house rule them, play custom cards like the cool ones above, or don't use them. Power to the players!

Some months ago, I thought of how to get outlands "normal" strong. I think it could be thematic if you not are allowed to control more outlands allies than the number of enemies engaged with you, they only aids you when you really needs it. if you control more allies than enemies engaged you will need to return allies to your hand until you have enough enemies. Also, changing their abilities so if you control at least two with the same name, all Gondor, outlands and Aragorn get an additional stat point in the stat they boost now. Is this good?

Some months ago, I thought of how to get outlands "normal" strong. I think it could be thematic if you not are allowed to control more outlands allies than the number of enemies engaged with you, they only aids you when you really needs it. if you control more allies than enemies engaged you will need to return allies to your hand until you have enough enemies. Also, changing their abilities so if you control at least two with the same name, all Gondor, outlands and Aragorn get an additional stat point in the stat they boost now. Is this good?

The number of enemies engaged with you?. That seems overly harsh. What do you do when you need to defeat an enemy?. Discard an ally?

As I wrote, you return them to hand.

That rule would make Outlands unplayable. They don't get strong until you have at least 3 in play, but realistically you are going to drop to 0 or 1 enemies during every turn so you'll never have more than 1 ally in play.

As I wrote, you return them to hand.

I have never played Outlands anyway and I encourage anyone who doesn't like Outlands to do the same. On the other hand I know people that like simple, linear decks that have some power and I think Outlands is fine for them. I really don't think anything needs to be changed (as many others have said). There are plenty of other tribes and strategies that are at least as powerful as Outlands that are more challenging to play.