Quick question,

Advanced projectors allow you to transfer dmg 1/1/1 to the not defending hull zones. With concussion missles roll a critical then do 1 to each adjacent hull zone. Does this keep advanced projectors from being able to redirect more then 1 dmg as the other zones already took 1?

Edit: apologies I should have been more clear, this is say on a VSD 1 with XI7

Advanced Projectors lets you transfer any amount of damage to the other hull zones, it's not limited to 1 each (unless hit by XI7 Turbolasers).

In any case, the extra damage from Advanced Concussion Missiles cannot be redirected or braced, and is taken immediately when the crit effect is resolved, before the normal damage from the attack is assigned to the target hull zone and/or redirected to other zones.

To use Advanced Projectors you need to spend a Redirect Defense Token. This allows you to shift any amount of incoming damage to a particular hull zone to other hull zones, up to the number of remaining shields on a given hull zone. Since you cannot spend the same kind of Defense Token more than once per attack, you will only be able to use Advanced Projectors once per attack.

Here's a scenario to help explain things:

Your front hull zone is hit by Assault Concussion Missiles for five points of damage and there is at least one critical symbol showing. You, as defender, must declare which Defense Tokens you are going to use. You decide to use Brace and Redirect. The attacker then decides which critical effect they will resolve — they have the option of two: the standard critical effect (the first damage card dealt is dealt face up) or the critical effect allowed by Assault Concussion Missiles. Your opponent elects to use ACM's critical effect.

You have to handle five points of damage, which is cut down to three points because of Brace. You Redirect two points of damage to your rear hull zone and one point to your left hull zone. The critical effect of ACM also inflicts an additional one point of damage to your left hull zone and one point to your right hull zone. There is nothing you can do about that, defense– wise. You cannot Redirect this damage because you Redirected the initial hit to your front hull zone.

It so happens that you had no shields remaining on your right hull zone. This causes you to draw one damage card — it is not a critical hit. While normally it would be a critical hit (because the initial damage inflicted on the ship contained a critical result on the attack dice), the attacker already declared they were using ACM's critical effect and you can only resolve one critical effect per attack (unless some card, upgrade, or game effect states otherwise).

Your idea that Advanced Projectors allow you to transfer 1/1/1 points of damage around the ship is a special case. When an opponent uses XI7 Turbolasers, the defender normally cannot Redirect more than one point of damage away from the targeted hull zone. However, Advanced Projectors allow the defender to use a Redirect token to transfer one point of damage away from the attack to each of the remaining three hull zones when facing an attack from XI7 weaponry.

Actually. . . I don't know if ACMs can not be redirected. . . Redirected damage occurs when damage is dealt to the ship. Since you don't declare what damage is going to be dealt where until the damage is dealt. . . Hmmm

Actually. . . I don't know if ACMs can not be redirected. . . Redirected damage occurs when damage is dealt to the ship. Since you don't declare what damage is going to be dealt where until the damage is dealt. . . Hmmm

Are you saying that ACM can be redirected or it can not be redirected?

I do not see how ACMs could possibly be redirected. Step 4 of the Attack is resolve crit effects, ACMs would then immediately deal 1 damage to each adjacent hull zone. Then the damage from the dice rolls is applied.

ACMs allowed me to do something very evil to my last opponent in the vassal tournament. VSD shot the left of my opponents Space Whale which had 0 shields, and his front and rear had 1 shield left. He called he was going to use his redirect (he was also using Advanced Projectors). So I chose to use ACMs as my crit effect, which then stripped his front and rear of their single shields, so he then had nothing to redirect to.

Good luck untangling this one...

Redirect: The defender chooses one of its hullzones adjacent to the defending hull zone. When the defender suffers damage from this attack, it may suffer any amount of damage on the chosen zone’s shields (up to the shields remaining on that zone) before it must suffer the remaining damage on the defending hull zone.

It all comes down to how we interpret "when the defender sufferes damage from this attack". Is "damage from the attack" different to damage from the critical effect? Or is any damage dealt during the attack counted as "damage from this attack".

I'd be be inclined to rule that damage from ACM is from the effect and not direct damage from the attack itself.

Or, as I see it.

Redirect allows you to redirect damage on the Defending Hull Zone.

ACMs aren't damaging the Defending Hull Zone (it specifically hitting the zones ADJACENT to the Defending Hull Zone)

Ergo, that damage cannot be Redirected.

Its easy. ACMs cannot be redirected, as the damage is not occuring to the Defending Hull Zone

The Quote for Redirect:

• Redirect : The defender chooses one of its hull zones adjacent to the defending hull zone. When the defender suffers damage from this attack, it may suffer any amount of damage on the chosen zone’s shields (up to the shields remaining on that zone) before it must suffer the remaining damage on the defending hull zone.

And for ACMs:

• Black Critical : Each Hull Zone Adjacent to the Defending Hull Zone takes one damage.

Ok. That makes sense.

Or, ACM damage is dealt as part of the critical effect, which is after the defense token usage, and so can't be redirected.

No, that does not fit because the redirected damage is not selected until damage is dealt. It does have to move from the defending hull zone though so as was pointed out ACMs hit the adjacent hull zones.

No, that does not fit because the redirected damage is not selected until damage is dealt. It does have to move from the defending hull zone though so as was pointed out ACMs hit the adjacent hull zones.

Attacks go:

1. Declare Target

2. Roll Attack Dice

3. Resolve Attack Effects

4. Spend Defense Tokens

5. Resolve Damage

It is in step 5 "Resolve Damage" that critical effects are resolved, according to both attack entries in the rules reference. ACM is a critical effect, and since it takes place in step five, well after the attack is modified and defense tokens spent, I don't think it really counts as part of the "damage from this attack" that redirect has access to.

I understand the argument. Redirect says that "when the defender suffers damage from this attack, it may suffer any amount of damage on the chosen hull zone's shields" But the problem is that ACM damage is not attack damage, it's *specifically* a critical effect, and even if you're assigning damage to hull zones in step five as well, it's still not attack damage in the traditional sense.

I get what you're saying also, in that since Redirect gets spent, then you actually assign damage in step five, you could possibly respond to it. Though, in your argument I have to note that Redirect never specifies the damage has to be hitting the defending hull zone, it just says "When you suffer damage from this attack" which is why I tend to think that damage from a critical effect is a totally separate thing from regular attack damage.

After all, the damage from the attack is counted off the dice. The critical effect deals two more damage to hull zones that aren't even being attacked in the first place.

Either way, you can't redirect it.

I can see how an FAQ clarification on this might help.

Actually, one could argue that a critical is a part of the attack. It is a resolution of dice icon just like the damage icon and accuracy icon.

Actually, one could argue that a critical is a part of the attack. It is a resolution of dice icon just like the damage icon and accuracy icon.

EDIT:

It's late, my brain is fried, and I think you're totally right now that I've read and re-read the pertinent rules.

I fired off an email to FFG for my own peace of mind.

Drasnighta has it right I think.

Redirect: The defender chooses one of its hull zones adjacent to the defending hull zone. When the defender suffers damage from this attack, it may suffer any amount of damage on the chosen zone’s shields (up to the shields remaining on that zone) before it must suffer the remaining damage on the defending hull zone.

The bolded part I think means it can't be.

... since it wouldn't have suffered that damage on the defending hull zone anyway. Right. Makes sense. But that also fits in with what I was saying about the damage to non-defending hull zones not really being exactly the same as "damage suffered from this attack", and now I'm starting to go cross-eyed.

Either way, this can do with clarification. I'll drop FFG an email and see what they say.

I strongly suspect they'll say exactly the same. That redirect only works for damage dealt to the defending hull zone.

Drasnighta has it right I think.

Redirect: The defender chooses one of its hull zones adjacent to the defending hull zone. When the defender suffers damage from this attack, it may suffer any amount of damage on the chosen zone’s shields (up to the shields remaining on that zone) before it must suffer the remaining damage on the defending hull zone.

The bolded part I think means it can't be.

While I agrea the intent is probobly that only damage to the defnding hull zone can be redirected, tha bolded part doesn't realy help.

It only tells us what to do with the remaining damage that was not suffered by the redirected to hull zone, it doesn't in any way restrict where the damage originaly came from.

Although I agree with Drasnighta's logic, my reading is that the ACM effect takes place immediately when the attacker chooses which critical effect to resolve (RRG: Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve
Damage” step of an attack .) . It's not part of the attack damage (or "damage from the attack") as defined in the RRG ( Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. ), it just happens.

Tvayat if you don't mind posting FFG's reply here that would be great.

Although I agree with Drasnighta's logic, my reading is that the ACM effect takes place immediately when the attacker chooses which critical effect to resolve (RRG: Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve

Damage” step of an attack.) . It's not part of the attack damage (or "damage from the attack") as defined in the RRG ( Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. ), it just happens.

Although I agree with Drasnighta's logic, my reading is that the ACM effect takes place immediately when the attacker chooses which critical effect to resolve (RRG: Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve

Damage” step of an attack.) . It's not part of the attack damage (or "damage from the attack") as defined in the RRG ( Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. ), it just happens.

That's correct but redirects effect occurs when you take damage. It does not state it has to occur in the damage step.

Step 4 of damage step, defender spends defense tokens, but for Brace and Redirect they do not take effect until steps 5b and 5c.

Step 5a is attacker resolves crit effects (if they had at lease 1 crit icon), if they use ACMs, the effect would be applied at this time, both adjacent hull zones of the defender suffer 1 damage.

Step 5b is the attacker totals the amount of damage (this is where brace is applied, if used)

Step 5c is apply damage, one point at a time. This is where the redirect is applied, which is after ACMs are already applied.

Although I agree with Drasnighta's logic, my reading is that the ACM effect takes place immediately when the attacker chooses which critical effect to resolve (RRG: Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve

Damage” step of an attack.) . It's not part of the attack damage (or "damage from the attack") as defined in the RRG ( Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. ), it just happens.

That's correct but redirects effect occurs when you take damage. It does not state it has to occur in the damage step.

Step 4 of damage step, defender spends defense tokens, but for Brace and Redirect they do not take effect until steps 5b and 5c.

Step 5a is attacker resolves crit effects (if they had at lease 1 crit icon), if they use ACMs, the effect would be applied at this time, both adjacent hull zones of the defender suffer 1 damage.

Step 5b is the attacker totals the amount of damage (this is where brace is applied, if used)

Step 5c is apply damage, one point at a time. This is where the redirect is applied, which is after ACMs are already applied.

I strongly favor this interpretation. It makes the most sense to me given how the attack steps are broken up.

It does quite specifically state that you resolve a crit effect, THEN the damage from the attack is totaled, THEN the damage from the attack is suffered one point at a time, and it would be during this step that Redirect came into effect.

In this case it would appear that the damage suffered from ACM is damage from the resolution of a critical effect, rather than damage from an attack.

Although I agree with Drasnighta's logic, my reading is that the ACM effect takes place immediately when the attacker chooses which critical effect to resolve (RRG: Critical effects resolve at the beginning of the “Resolve

Damage” step of an attack.) . It's not part of the attack damage (or "damage from the attack") as defined in the RRG ( Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time. ), it just happens.

That's correct but redirects effect occurs when you take damage. It does not state it has to occur in the damage step.

Step 4 of damage step, defender spends defense tokens, but for Brace and Redirect they do not take effect until steps 5b and 5c.

Step 5a is attacker resolves crit effects (if they had at lease 1 crit icon), if they use ACMs, the effect would be applied at this time, both adjacent hull zones of the defender suffer 1 damage.

Step 5b is the attacker totals the amount of damage (this is where brace is applied, if used)

Step 5c is apply damage, one point at a time. This is where the redirect is applied, which is after ACMs are already applied.

Actually, it is odd but redirect only states it occurs when damage is taken. Not when it is taken. Since ACM's deal damage once you choose them one can make the argument that they can be redirected. The counter argument that makes me think they can not is because they are not being dealt at the defending hull zone.

Hello, <Your Name Here>

There we go. Thank you!

I can't believe there was so much fuss about this people will start about Dodonnas pride and when that takes affect.. I think seeing an opponent spend his defence tokens then you cancel the results and deal a crit is so cool