From the fluff in the books i always pictured that there is no internet present in the 41st Milennnium. The ability to disseminate information that comes with a planet wide network tecnology would **** a planet pretty quickly in my opinion. However this is one thing that my players always joked about, how can a society that spawns across the universe not have internet.

With that in mind i am considering doing an adventure where a planet develops a form of internet and allows free flow of information. The players would need to come to this planet and see the consequences of not hiding knowledge and probably try to bring down this global network, in extreme case even declare an exterminatus on the planet if things get completly out of hand.

What you guys think would be the consequences of the free flow of information on the 41st millenium. For this scenario i am assuming a hive or forge world?

And what would be interesting challenges for the players to face when dealing with this problem and trying to bring down the net?

Finally remember: Knowledge is power, hide it well.

Even on this exceptionally progressive world, I highly doubt that individual people will be making their own individual websites for others to visit - seems like an impossibly large investment of time for an Imperial subject; even on a relatively prosperous world. I suppose most of the content would be created by the local government or corporations, with some individual contributions as well.

I imagine flickering green-and-black CRT monitors with no discernible operating system, just lots of text and low-resolution images, and buttons to click on for more text. Content might be news stories, official proclamations, messages of religious import, notices of fugitives from justice, and maybe a few forward-thinking trade combines trying their hand at consumer-oriented marketing and advertising? News stories might incriminate Nobles, weatlhy traders or Adepts, or might be seen as compromising security by the Adeptus Arbites. But the decentralized nature of the system means that it's difficult to limit the flow of information without large-scale purges of the infrastructure.

After this taste of freedom, the citizens might be very unwilling to part with their pseudo-internet and set up backup networks to keep their connections working after purges of the official installations - and might find themselves partnering with hereteks for the required technical expertise. Of course, no proper servant of the Machine God would become involved with this whole plan - it gives individuals outside their order control over machines which are either priceless artifacts or bordering-on-heretical cheap knockoffs of their priceless artifacts; and any follower of the Omnnissiah would balk at this banalization of knowledge by disseminating it to those who lack the clarity of mind to understand it.

However this is one thing that my players always joked about, how can a society that spawns across the universe not have internet.

The same way a society that spawns across oceans does not have telephones?

Although in 40k, this would actually be a case of technology getting lost/forbidden, rather than not yet having been invented. I imagine that the worlds of the Imperium either never had an internet due to the colony failing and devolving into a Feral world society, or they lost it during a conflict and were just never able to patch it back together, or -- for most Hive worlds -- the Imperium has outlawed its use for anyone but specially sanctioned Adepta (much like with the original ARPANET on Earth), and if there was civilian access it would have been dismantled under force of arms.

On the other hand, it could also depend on what exactly you mean by internet: just the ability to connect to a mainframe for a very limited set of informations, or actually largely unfiltered access to information? The former seems plausible for advanced Imperial worlds, as it's essentially just a hardwired equivalent of one's interaction with a dedicated terminal or a servoskull, etc.

What you guys think would be the consequences of the free flow of information on the 41st millenium. For this scenario i am assuming a hive or forge world?

I don't think there would be many consequences at first , as it'd still take some time for information to start circulating. In the end, the internet is just a much speedier way of spreading information than travelling by mount or by ship. I think it would also depend heavily on the individual planet and the differences between its regions or castes that could generate friction if they are put into spotlight.

Over time, however, social unrest is likely to build up, as people may have an easier time exchanging stories of inequality and protest against daily harshness, whilst on the flipside, extremists will find it easier to build up pressure in their own "echo chambers" and possibly even organise terrorist activity, such as the mutant pogroms that already happen from time to time when a firebrand militia of religious zealots finds a particularly bombastic demagogue to rally around.

I think the biggest challenge here would be to find an explanation as to why the local government actually lets it happen, but this could be resolved by either the planetary leaders being a bit naive in their dreams and hopes for their society, or by this "internet" not actually being a hardwired solution, but one that uses wireless and is hard to suppress, working via mobile devices the likes of which have played a pivotal role in recent insurrections in the Middle East.

Perhaps - and this could be an important plot point - this is actually a ploy by the Tau to generate unrest with simple black market xenotech trade under the rather harmless guise of free information? The Water Caste overseer could reason that these devices simply expose the weaknesses of Imperial doctrine that the human military is so hard at work at suppressing.

In the Lathe worlds book for 1st edition (page 33) there was something called praecursator grid:

Using scarcely understood devices from the Dark Age of Technology, the Lords Dragon [super secret boss cabal of calixian AdMech] establised an extensive monitoring network - the Praecursator Grid - across the Pondus system, using the space around their new home as a field test. If their system allowed observation without direct interference, then they knew that they could expand the grid to cover all the forge worlds that would eventually be built, and even some worlds outside the Mechanicus' sphere of authority.

On page 34, there is a description of what is possible with access to the grid:

If the Acolyte gains 3 or more DoS, he gains complete access to the Grid on that planet, and may look through any pict feed and access any archived data.

This implies to me that (at least forge worlds) have a cogitator network, that lets you access data from many places. This is a form of internet.

Don't forget about attempts to censor it. Large numbers of people trying to monitor everything. If someone is doing anything they don't like, which will include any attempt to prevent them seeing what someone is doing, that leads to censorship. Not by deleting heretical content or blocking access to it (though they do that as temporary measures), but by having local enforces visit the source and start breaking things.

The worlds leaders might think their censorship efforts are keeping everything under control.

This implies to me that (at least forge worlds) have a cogitator network, that lets you access data from many places. This is a form of internet.

From the description, it sounds more like a CCTV network -- both due to the mention of "monitoring network", but also because praecursator is Latin for spy.

That being said, I still like the idea of a network for "freeform" data exchange on at least some few worlds, just that in my idea of the setting, access to it would be heavily restricted, and on many worlds people may not even know it exists. More of an intranet than an internet perhaps, not even connecting the different Adepta with one another, but limited to single compounds to connect their terminals to a central server. Thus the flow of information is kept suitably low, and couriers retain their important function as emissaries between the various organisations.

From the fluff in the books i always pictured that there is no internet present in the 41st Milennnium. The ability to disseminate information that comes with a planet wide network tecnology would **** a planet pretty quickly in my opinion. However this is one thing that my players always joked about, how can a society that spawns across the universe not have internet.

Finally remember: Knowledge is power, hide it well.

Please remind your players that during the time that we reached the moon, there was no Internet. Full stop.

In addition, it is safe to assume that those scientist and engineers working at Project for NASA, ESA or all the other space agencies do -not- waste hours of time with youtbube.clips, Forum flame wars or Internet porn or deleting spam emails. All of which sums up about 90% what the Internet is currently used for.

The electronic messenging that comes along with "the Internet" and the ability to Exchange Information quickly is a plus. The fact that millions of private individuals, political/religious Groups and economic entities use it to spread their "News" and "fun stuff" isn´t helping space travel at all. Nor do cat Videos and porn on YouTube. Don´t get me wrong, I like cats AND Porn like every other dude does, but your players just got it all wrong

Back2Topic:

What has become todays Internet was usually intent as a means of exchanging Information between different Groups working together. As such, an Internet could be installed on each and every planet with the matching Technology. The Access would not be "public", so. You would Need t be part of a certain Group to Access Information Banks and it would not be half "multi-media" as our Internet is today. Heck, those of the Mechanicus might just be binary, plain informative binary.

Police would use it for official messenging, crime Scene files and "warrents" and case files. Nobles would have their lackeys use it to send invitations and write prose about their glorius escapades. Tech-Priests would use it to Show of their results without giving any helpful Information about how the achieved it, since they are all so-jealous about each others mars-Patterns.

Well, what do you mean speaking "Internet"?

First of all, there is kind of concept of computer/cogitor network. There is something about it in Imperium, I believe, with thousands of petabytes hided on forbidden data vaults and something. Even on papers.

Second, there is concept of INTERCONNECTED networks. Point of Internet is not it's kind of world-wide web, but it's thousands of connected networks. This isn't exist, I believe, because why Imperium will want something like that? Every institution will have it's own cogitor network, with it's own security protocols (and with core protocoles by Adepta Mechanicus).

Problem is, and it's the third - what do you mean with "free flow of information"? Our first world have, with all complications, base principles of freedom of speech, liberty to collect and hoard information and so on. It's something totaly alien for Imperium (and for any other race in Milky Way I believe). People there just don't need Internet as we know it; you need to change them drastically first. They can use something about Kwangmyong or Soviet unfinished analogue, so you will have something like that in Imperium hive, why not, with terminal in every hab block, with Global Social Network (premoderated, of course, and everybody knows it), Global Informatorium (premoderated and censured) and so on.

As many things in the civil area of 40k it is up to your own interpretation of the universe.

As for a lore basis there is something called noosphere. It is something the Mechanicus uses to interact between each other and with machines and some sort or super WLAN. Sources: Lexicanum and novels 'priests of mars' & 'gods of mars'. The techpriests are able to access all databases connected via the sphere, which in the novels is a giant (even in 40k terms giant...there is a trainings area where several titans can practice on board) space ship, an arc. Anyways that seems to be a mechanicus equivalent to internet.

In my games the Adepta have big networks to exchange data internally as well as between the adepta. At least on developed worlds this can happen electronically. As the Imperium is usualy reigned like a dictatorship the access to information is a privilege, but nothing works without the big trade houses and nobles. Ergo they can access these networks, too. Likely they are monitored while doing so, but nonetheless they will need access to such information like the development on the stock exchanges or actual news to adjust their goods and prices.

Also I go from the perspective that the internet is not so attractive for the normal people, as it is actually used to exchange information and not for entertainment or social media...you know, no inquisitorial selfies will be uploaded to the Emperor's facebook.

Then of course this opens up room for criminal elements, too.

Of course, as with most of such details, the noosphere exists only in some novels, whereas others present an alternative (or don't deal with the subject at all). For example, I recall James Swallow's books having the Mechanicus use tightbeam laser comms that require line of sight but otherwise serve a similar purpose in terms of networking.

Just do it like the novel authors and pick what you think is best for your interpretation of the setting.

4 0k chan LOL! Not sure I'd want to see the Imperial equivalent of 7chan...

In any case "noosphere-web" would be heavily monitored by the Inquisition and the admech and possibly rife with cultist/AL taint.

Also the flow of information may be free, but the information itself could be redacted, altered and tampered with without the populace knowing about it. (For that matter, what makes you think that doesn't happen on our internet? Que paranoid toughts )

Would the Tau have internet? It might be a bit more liberall but would possibly still look like the propaganda stuff from Starship Troopers (Would you like to know more?)

English is not my native language, so sorry for any mistakes.

Regarding the topic.

When you think of an Internet in WH40k universe you should take into consideration certain laws of physics limiting the Internet. First, it is impossible to transmit anything from one star system to another with the speed higher than 300 000 km per second (light speed). Taking into account the distances, sending an information from Earth to the nearest star system of Alha Centaurus takes approximately 4 years. The only alternative for that in WH40k universe is Asthropaths messages and written mail sent via Rogue Traders or Chartists Captains. That is why network spanning over at least two star systems (for example between Silvanius Binary and Desoleum in Askellon) is impossible.

On the hive cities, you may face another problem. Most cities (for example Desoleum Prime) are covered with thick plates of ceramite, giant walls divide them into different levels. All this may prevent signals used for transferring data (wi-fi, gps, etc.). Only wires can be used, but in most parts of the hive, they are usually damaged or even stolen.

Finally, take into account the mindset of WH40k universe inhabitants. Ordinary worker or serf on the hive/forge world is working all day long to meet his labor quota. On the other hand, Mars Priesthood does not need an Internet in the way we used to. They do not need youtube, facebook, Instagram, porn, etc. as they are half machines concerning only about collecting knowledge and preserving access to it from anyone outside the Machine Cult.

When you think of an Internet in WH40k universe you should take into consideration certain laws of physics limiting the Internet. First, it is impossible to transmit anything from one star system to another with the speed higher than 300 000 km per second (light speed). Taking into account the distances, sending an information from Earth to the nearest star system of Alha Centaurus takes approximately 4 years. The only alternative for that in WH40k universe is Asthropaths messages and written mail sent via Rogue Traders or Chartists Captains. That is why network spanning over at least two star systems (for example between Silvanius Binary and Desoleum in Askellon) is impossible.

On the hive cities, you may face another problem. Most cities (for example Desoleum Prime) are covered with thick plates of ceramite, giant walls divide them into different levels. All this may prevent signals used for transferring data (wi-fi, gps, etc.). Only wires can be used, but in most parts of the hive, they are usually damaged or even stolen.

Yup, if communicators for 40K don't use neutrino or something even more narrative.

When you think of an Internet in WH40k universe you should take into consideration certain laws of physics limiting the Internet. First, it is impossible to transmit anything from one star system to another with the speed higher than 300 000 km per second (light speed). Taking into account the distances, sending an information from Earth to the nearest star system of Alha Centaurus takes approximately 4 years. The only alternative for that in WH40k universe is Asthropaths messages and written mail sent via Rogue Traders or Chartists Captains. That is why network spanning over at least two star systems (for example between Silvanius Binary and Desoleum in Askellon) is impossible.

I don't recall where I seen it but there was a conception that Mars Priesthood have some kind of FIDO they use for keep tech info in date.

UPD: A-ha, found it. Not FIDO, somewhere about modern clouds. High Altar network, using "Transmat links" - psychic servitors (just for protocol means I don't like an idea of psychic servitor). Every discovery is put on altar, that synchronize with each other in Galaxy, White Dwarf #178.

That seem oddly... open for the AdMech. Don't they often hoard their technology even from each other?

It seems weird that they'd do that but that some Forge Worlds and sects still have "expertise" and exclusivity over certain technologies (for example, I believe that the IG lost a Leman Russ variant when a single forge world was attacked).

I don't like an idea you can create a functional psychic servitor. Because I can't imagine why Imperium use non-servitor then.

I believe they can use encrypted packages to send something, but if I were adeptus mechanics I'd sent this packages in material form with couriers.

So yeah, it's strange for AM, but AAT can use such system.

It does sound weird... You've checked WD #178 yourself, I assume?

I suppose one could "explain it away" by claiming that it is an extremely resource-intensive project and these "psychic servitors" could be immobile .. like, essentially just a brain in a rotting carcass, connected to a fixed network station with a series of tubes, kind of like the Hybrids in the re-imagined Galactica series. And their psychic potential is so stunted that they can at best transmit thoughts, and even this only when you bundle several of them together. Something like that.

At least that is how I would "salvage" it. Given how servitors are always described as mindless automatons, this is rather unexpected, but I guess you may not actually need a working personality to use a brain's psychic potential.

Given how servitors are always described as mindless automatons, this is rather unexpected, but I guess you may not actually need a working personality to use a brain's psychic potential.

I was thinking the same thing, still highly unorthodox tough. How secure is comunication trough the warp anyway? Can those messages be interscepted/picked up on? (I know the hive mind blocks/drowns them out.)

Lord of Change: "Yes you fools! Keep talking! Feed me your secrets! The warp is our realm and we listen...and hunger!"

Farseer: " Will you bloody monkeigh stop shouting into the warp! People are trying to meditate here!"

It does sound weird... You've checked WD #178 yourself, I assume?

Can those messages be interscepted/picked up on? (I know the hive mind blocks/drowns them out.)

Oh, they can. I even recalling rules for it in some RT (I believe) books. But to fix it you just need to cipher your message.

Of course it can't help against some Lord of Change - and they know everything. Or at least A LOT.

You know that's exactly against anything how Warp working in my opinion. Warp is fully about emotions, psyche and willpower, and "mindless automatons" is just the opposite for that. They don't have soul, right? then how can they to use warp at all?

It depends on how we interpret the lobotomisation that leads to a Servitor -- parts of their brain are still working, so their "soul" is still there, it just cannot express itself anymore, essentially trapped in its own body. No idea how that would affect one's connection to the Warp, though.

For what it's worth, Codex Imperialis (which had stats for Servitors) stated that "their minds are essentially blank and only the most rudimentary instincts remain", and that "they cannot be affected by fear or Terror and are Immune to all psychological effects".

The Warp is about emotions, but it is also about thoughts and dreams -- perhaps the AdMech has found a way to feed their data as "artificial dreams" to be "thought-cast" by these networked Servitors? You know, just running those numbers and characters through their wired bodies, automatically picked up and transmitted by a brainwashed, lobotomised brain that doesn't even realise what it's doing.

Kind of like the braindead Emperor with his Astronomican.

I think I still don't really like it, though. This may just end up being one of those few things from GW's stuff I'll rather not include into my own interpretation of the setting.

It depends on how we interpret the lobotomisation that leads to a Servitor -- parts of their brain are still working, so their "soul" is still there, it just cannot express itself anymore, essentially trapped in its own body. No idea how that would affect one's connection to the Warp, though.

But I thought one thing. What if you take a psyker who is in the astropathic transition just now and lock his mind in this state? Not real servitorisation, but just putting him unconsious and rerouting his already manifesting power?

Hm. I'm not sure that working brain is something about soul, to be honest.

It is a very esoteric question indeed -- especially as it is one of those aspects of the setting that are clearly fantasy rather than science(-fiction).

My thinking is just based on the bit in the Eldar codex about how "souls" in this setting seem to work, i. e. they actually do survive the body's death and escape into the Warp (although almost all Human souls seem to dissolve quickly, as opposed to Eldar ones). This, to me, means that whatever this soul is, it's not actually tied to the physical wellbeing of the body that hosts it. If the brain dies, the soul still lives on. So if the brain is crippled (via lobotomy), would this not consequentially have no effect on the soul as well?

Just trying to make sense of some weird parts of the fluff, mind you -- but this would actually fit to these weird "Psyker-Servitors" (still not sure I should just accept them into my worldview tho), even if it moves the nature of psychic powers away from a purely scientific one (the Psyker gene) towards a science-fantasy one (gene + soul).

I'm sure one could write half an essay about what this could mean for the nature of these souls, with theories like the Psyker gene being more like Star Wars' midichlorians in that one's psychic power is a result of the soul that inhibits a body at birth, and its genetic makeup being "subconsciously influenced" by this spirit. You could even write crazy thesis about how souls might originate in the Warp, only temporarily drawn into living until the time of death etc ... but this would quickly get into interpretations of the setting I'd rather not touch as I prefer a more scientific perspective.

But I thought one thing. What if you take a psyker who is in the astropathic transition just now and lock his mind in this state? Not real servitorisation, but just putting him unconsious and rerouting his already manifesting power?

GW's material mentions different kinds of servitorisation, mainly regarding the origin of the body (vat-grown flesh or condemned criminals), but perhaps the term could be stretched enough to include what you are referring to? Perhaps the only real qualification for "servitor" is that you no longer have a mind of your own but exist solely to serve , regardless of how much brain surgery it takes?

If you have some powerful psyker with spirit that overlived his brain, why we call it "servitor"? If his soul strong enough it will control the body, as Daemon can possess Servitor (or automobile). I mean you need some method to suppress it's soul (because you need it to enforce control) without suppressing it's soul (because you need to to send astrotelepathic signals).

If the soul can be influenced by the body (read: external stimuli), you could probably "trick" it with drugs -- and the aforementioned crippling of certain parts of the brain, to achieve this "trapped" status?

GW's material claims that almost no human soul actually does survive the death of its brain for long as it effectively "falls apart" and merges with the streams of the Immaterium, so there must be some sort of relationship/dependency. To use an analogy, if the soul is the person, their body is the house that protects them against the stormy weather outside (the Warp).

If the soul is person, then, I believe, body is a medium to do something in Material. And a soul is a medium to do something in the Warp for the body. So yeah, you can influence soul by actions for the body (you can induce fear by biological means for example), but if you unlink a body from the soul, if you taken away keys from the house from the soul, it can't enter it's house and will be dissipated. Bye-bye, psyker abilities - no soul, no ability to influence Warp.

That's the thing -- you'd have to maintain a link strong enough to prevent the soul from "breaking away", though possibly just keeping the body alive would be enough.. On that note, it almost sounds as if such a technology could be linked to the Emperor's Golden Throne, which was after all built by the AdMech as well.

The preamble to Inquisitor suggests that they are forcefully keeping the Emperor locked in his carcass to keep the Astronomican lit and prevent his rebirth; quite grimdark, if you consider that from this perspective, Mankind's leader is effectively abused as a living torch for political reasons.

On the flipside, the soul could just as well be just a "shadow" of the engrams in your brain that can potentially exist without the host body by escaping into the Warp? Lots of possible interpretations here.