Anyone have any real table experiences to share?

No theory plz. We've talked about it already.

edit: read carefully: mass vs none. Don't discuss other instances please.

Mass likely 4 or more, but really I want to know about 6 or more.

Everytime I showed up with a larger number of fighters than my opponent I had clear victory (me playing Rebels only). We talk about 4+ more fighters here though. That includes 2 games where I had 6 squadrons and my opponent had none. Fighters paid back their points every time (except for Wedge). Games with no clear fighter superiority I won some and lost one, but the fighters had a hard time and where mostly busy with the enemies fighters.

I have to say that we play 400 points only (left the 300 point games behind some time ago - I never played fighter-heavy in 300 pt games).

Based on my experience so far I will take at least a few every time (like 2 - 3 A Wings), if only to be able to screw with opponents fighters if there are any.

I have a feeling I will get to answer this from the receiving end of a Rhymerball so I will wait to add more to this then.

I like squadron light though. I feel that they are useful at a few squadrons and I don't have to force anything to make them be worth their points.

Depends on what you mean by fighter heavy

I played like an ass against vsd + 2 gsd using 3 NEB's with 4 as, 3 bs and still only lost by 1 hull (some incredibly **** rolls from the NEB's with one round six total dice for 0 total damage) which was the difference between skreeds vsd 2 and not

Bwings carried against gsds

FWIW, last couple of games I crushed my opponents (both 9-1) with a small Rhymerball (Rhymer, 3xTIE Bomber, 1xTIE Advanced). One opponent had a pair of X-Wings, the other a pair of A-Wings.

On the table across from us, a guy with 11x TIE Fighters got his rear end handed to him by Wedge & Dutch flying from Gallant Haven.

It's no more than anecdotal evidence, of course, but it's all I can offer you.

Last night, I had 2x Advanced and Soontir tie up 3 X-Wings, 2 Y-Wings and Luke, for 4 turns, starting turn 2...

If it were not for Gallant Haven being nearby, I probably would have won that scrap - or at least, he wouldn't have had any X-Wings... As it was, Luke got away with only a single hit point.

My Rhymer Ball was on the other side of the table, having a -hell- of a time dealing with Tycho + Friends...

ok ayok ay. Guys. Read.

mass fighters vs no fighters.

Not some fighters vs none or mass.

By mass, I'm expecting at least 4, but I'm really asking more like 6 and up. Like Rhymer balls, or Gallant Haven masses.

I've always found mass fighters against no fighters to be an absolute steamroll against the guy without any.

Played last tourney with no fighters. All three opponents had at least seven squadrons. I totally crushed them all.

So far I have not lost against any fighter composition, while taking none.

Last game that I had Squadrons, I had two guppies my opponent three. We played for three turns then called it as my fighters took him apart.

Last weekend I took 2VSD and 3 GSD's in a 400 point game and he took just 4 Fighters. He fired with them maybe 4 times and dinged me for 3 points out of 4 each time he fired.

At the Australian Nationals, I was similarly shot by Squadrons, and not being able to do anything other than watch your fleet have death inflicted by 1,000 paper cuts is frustrating.

I still marvel at the idea you can play a Squadron-Free build and then win with it.

Depends on who is the better player. In all seriousness. I've been on the winning and losing end of both situations.

I just played a game on Sunday and the guy I was up against had 2 VSDs and 99 points of squadrons, 1 point less than max. He had Rhymer, Howl, Mithel, an Advanced, and the rest were Ties. I didn't really bother to count, but suffice to say he had a WALL of squadrons. I had 3 GSD1s and 1 VSD.

I won the game 8-2. On the last 2 rounds, I had 2 GSDs and he had his VSD hurting. I mentioned that I was thinking about just points-denying him, thinking he won the game for sure. He teased me back, saying "don't be THAT guy!" and so I pressed my attack. I took out his VSD on the last round, giving me the win. Objective was Advanced Gunnery.

His squadrons did do a very, VERY good job of whittling my VSD down though, but my goal was always to take out the enemy ships and ignore the squadrons.

I've been playing with no-squadron fleets for most of my games now. I played with squadrons at the start, had maybe 2-3 games with them, but have not really missed them since. Sure, I'd like to try out a few fleet builds with squadrons but I'm not getting enough games to experiment so I just fly what list I like the most.



However, this discussion would not be complete without a bit of theory. Are no-squadron lists better than lists with squadrons? Maybe at the current meta, no. But I have a nagging feeling at the back of my head that that's not the complete picture.

On my last game (mentioned above), my opponent made his VSDs do squadron commands on the 2nd and 3rd turn, just as we got into firing distance. On the next few turns, IIRC, he did concentrate fire. I think if he stuck with squadron commands, he could've brought more squadrons to attack and I probably would've lost the game.

On the last round, I think if he did a squadron command, then they might've been able to hurt my GSD before it came in to finish off his VSD.

A lot of IFs and with the result up to the attack dice, nothing is certain. I think his Rhymer missed with his black attack dice 3x on that game.

Bottom line, no-squadron fleets are easier to fly than fleets with squadrons. However, the difference in "power" still lies very much in the player's ability to fly his list, the objective being played, and obviously, the luck of the dice.

I think a similar argument here is "which is better, going 1st player or 2nd player?"

Both my games have been my list of 0 fighters vs either 5 y-wings and 2 a-wings, or 2 b-wings and 2 a-wings, with both having 3 ships on the table, like me. It is a uphill battle, and I have learned that your Assault Frigates Mrk2A's NEED point defense reroute, and I wish I could change my list to include it. I have scored 9-1 and 8-2 both games.

So basically. Its a little too hard to tell. But not skewed in the mass fighters favor massively it seems. That bodes ill.

Been facing off with a player that uses two vsd and one glad. Has rhymer olus 3 bombers, two advance, mithel and some other ships. Like a total of nine squadrons.

His second, third and four command are squadron based. With the upgrade that lets his bombers move even when engaged. So the a wings cant really tie them down. Best bet is to focus fire on that carrier and slag it. Can eek out a win but need yo focus on that damm carrier. Will be harder with the ISD and the imp raider that has a blue and black for squadrons

So basically. Its a little too hard to tell. But not skewed in the mass fighters favor massively it seems. That bodes ill.

I won both my games because the objectives chosen benefit ships over squadrons. If objectives went the other way, and did not buff my capital ship directly, the game probably would of gone the other way.

The second game with the 2 a's and 2 b's... they focused on stripping shields off of my CR90 (salvation oneshotted it after that, even with advanced projectors) and off of the non-flagship Assault frigate, and eventually killed it because of squadrons dealing more damage than I could mitigate. It was a very close game, almost a loss.

If their were more objectives that benefited squadrons, maybe. I think that is the only issue.

But in 400 point games, I am taking at least 1 squadron per ship after those experiences, and tow them around with a single squadron command per ship.

The question of mass fighters vs no fighters is broad. Mass fighters can mean very different style matchups.

A serious bomber heavy squad, with ships built to enhance them are real problems for no-ship builds (assuming no great gap in player skill or mission balance). A squadron heavy list designed to take out other squadrons is far less dangerous to, and vulnerable to getting tabled by an all ship build. To add to that, an all (or most) bomber squad-heavy list has real problems with anti-fighter squad lists.

I think the main reason no-squads are the early rage is because it's early. Easier to learn to play no squads well. There is a big diff between building 200pts in ships then tacking on 100 pts of squadrons, and building a 300pt focused squadron list (bomber or air superiority), and it's more complicated to herd a big batch of fighters than to just maneuver ships.

I haven't faced off against no squadron lists yet, but like Daht said : Squadrons in any list, regardless of size, need to be properly supported by ships and with a role that synergize with the rest of the fleet composition.

My current opponents are mainly Imperials that like Squadrons and go for squadron superiority in most games. It's relatively mainstream to see anything from 6 to 8 squadrons in the game. Even the humble TIE Fighter has 50% chance of damaging a ship when it's not shooting at any squadron, and it does add up over the course of a game if they aren't stopped. Statistically speaking, it's 2 points of damage each turn to an enemy ship, and they are mobile enough to hit the weak spots that the opponent tries to hide.

Unstopped over 6 turns, that's 12 extra damage. That's enough to kill a Corvette.

The important bit when list building is to not go overkill. 2 Victory I Carriers with complements of TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors, as well as Flight Controllers, Mauler, Howlrunner and Fel is overkill.

I've heard the guys from Intensify Forward Firepower say that one of their hosts won a tournament with a list with 2 AFMK2B with Flight Controllers, Expanded Hangars, Raymus on one and 9 Y-Wing Squadrons. So, they're not at a disadvantage, but his list was clearly oriented to support a Bomber Wing.

Ive playtested the winning Gencon list against my 6Y 3A squadron list.

Gencon list doesnt seem to be able to beat it in a "deathmatch" sort scenario.

Thats not meant as boasting, i could be playing the Gencon list wrong, but I am familiar with the tactics that he posted/used. Im sure it could be played better but the Imperial ships dont have the speed needed to box my carrier when it takes a perpendicular course and i have my own two "blockers" in my cr90s to delay. Done it 3 times and its an uphill battle for the Imps.

Mass Y Wings. Awesome.

I haven't faced off against no squadron lists yet, but like Daht said : Squadrons in any list, regardless of size, need to be properly supported by ships and with a role that synergize with the rest of the fleet composition.

My current opponents are mainly Imperials that like Squadrons and go for squadron superiority in most games. It's relatively mainstream to see anything from 6 to 8 squadrons in the game. Even the humble TIE Fighter has 50% chance of damaging a ship when it's not shooting at any squadron, and it does add up over the course of a game if they aren't stopped. Statistically speaking, it's 2 points of damage each turn to an enemy ship, and they are mobile enough to hit the weak spots that the opponent tries to hide.

Unstopped over 6 turns, that's 12 extra damage. That's enough to kill a Corvette.

The important bit when list building is to not go overkill. 2 Victory I Carriers with complements of TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors, as well as Flight Controllers, Mauler, Howlrunner and Fel is overkill.

I've heard the guys from Intensify Forward Firepower say that one of their hosts won a tournament with a list with 2 AFMK2B with Flight Controllers, Expanded Hangars, Raymus on one and 9 Y-Wing Squadrons. So, they're not at a disadvantage, but his list was clearly oriented to support a Bomber Wing.

No fighters means a little different ship placement.

Try some games. A lot is different from what you expect.

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The gencon list is meant to be a 6 turn list. not a deathmatch list. deathmatch severely changes the game from the norm: 6turns, objectives.

I got wrecked twice by Rhymerball and I was flying 3 Whales no squadrons

I got wrecked twice by Rhymerball and I was flying 3 Whales no squadrons

Wanna batrep?

I got wrecked twice by Rhymerball and I was flying 3 Whales no squadrons

Wanna batrep?

I got wrecked twice by Rhymerball and I was flying 3 Whales no squadrons

Wanna batrep?

HNN will post one up. Mikael can't help but tote the Imperial dominance of the night.

win some lose some. its kind of intersting to watch you to play at media. =P

I haven't lost a game when using a pure capital ship list against someone using a heavy Fighter (4+) list yet

Touch wood, I am sure it can and will happen, but my personal experience to date is that there is a greater advantage given by having more capital ships and a higher number of activations than there is by having multiple squadrons.