The Emperor Protects!

So in this post I'm going to layout my idea for resolving Ship to Ship combat quicker and easier...

Now what I'm about to present is done with the intend of glossing over many details to reach a conclusive yet (I hope) satisfying end to any "large" scaled Voidship battles!

Macro verses Micro Play Style is the gist

Concerns and or Questions beforehand>

A. How long "would it" conceivably take a group of players to resolve a battle of 10 ships vs. 10 ships using the raw Rogue Trader Rules? (I wouldn't even attempt it myself as a GM - but that's just me)

B. How important is the outcome verses the actual details that came to said conclusion?

Those were the two things I had to consider before trying my hand at a system which has soo much contention in terms of its mechanics presented by Fantasy Flight Games.

So I went first to Battle Fleet Gothic Rules (going page by page and addressing each facet of play therein for conversion here)

Summary: So in essence theses House Rules use Dice Pools to resolve all facets of play - three pools are used; Offense, Defense, and Crew Pool. These pools are tallied then rolled as an expression of D10s - the higher "side" winning the momentary action. This is the essence of the system below. For those who feel "heck I don't want my character to die in such a narratively based system" or better yet "I don't want my fancy flagship that I worked hours on to be defeated in mere minutes of playtime" - which are both good reasons not to use this system when detailing the specific outcome for your flagship or the ship your character currently happens to aboard. In those instances I would suggested you fall back to the RT Core Book's system to resolve your single ship to ship engagements. For those bold enough to put not only their characters on the line but as well as their Flagship amongst your other ships should be rewarded well for the risk (i.e. risk for reward) - give them more XP or dare I say either a Temporary (in-session) Fate Point or a new Permanent Fate Point for their risky win!

BASIC EXAMPLE OF PLAY

Ship A's Offensive tally is 47 while Ship B's tally came out to 36 - Ship B takes a Hit (47 - 36 = 9 Point Reduction to further CREW tally rolls)
Ship A's Offensive tally is 39 while Ship B's tally comes out to 45 - Ship B takes no Hits (CREW values hasn't been affected)

If Ship B is a Transport class vessel then it's been defeated (depending on the GM maybe even destroyed)

FIN

THE GRIMY STARS RULES

Each ship gets three pools:

- Offense Pool: used to attack / damage

- Defense Pool: used to "soak" / stave off defeat / destruction

- Crew Pool: used to perform "Orders" (i.e. either Extended Actions and or Special Orders)

Player "A" goes through his ship and tallies all the ship's Defensive then Offensive capabilities into TWO Dice Pools
known as O (Offense) and D (Defense). Each pool is used verses the other.

Each ship type can suffer a number of hits based on its class ranging from 1 to 5 hits.

If/when the Defender wins a O vs. D Test - the defending Ship suffers no Hits!
If/when the Attacker wins a O vs. D Test - the defending Ship takes a Hit or Hits depending on the type of attack

(Veteran Command and/or Crew) NOTE: The PCs are always "considered" to be aboard a Veteran grade vessel in that the best player advantage in this system is their ability to populate the same flagship and perform a number of extended
actions on that ship on their turn unlike NPCs who can only take a single extended action in their ships.


GAME METRICS

d = Boarding Defense (Small Scale - Internal / Defenses)
D = Voidship Defense (Big Scale - External / Defenses)
o = Boarding Offense (Small Scale - Internal / Damage is applied to CREW Pool)
O = Voidship Offense (Big Scale - External / Damage is applied as "Hits" to the Ship; ranging from 1 to 6 Hits)

BIG SCALE D & O = Damage/Stress to Ship (i.e. Hits)
SMALL SCALE d & o = Damage/Stress to Crew Value

T = Turret Rating (Turret Dice vs. Squads & Ordnance before their attack is made)

Offense vs. Denfense (O win) is applied as a "Hit"

CREW: Used to perform Orders (i.e. either Extended PC Actions and/or Special Orders)

DEFENSE: Roll O vs. D

If Attack wins Dice Pool Defender suffers a Hit / Hits
If Defender wins Dice Pool they suffer no Hits

LINK TO PDF

I've gotten as far as I could - at this point I figured I'd review my "system" and those values assigned therein for fair yet "fluff" oriented play (this type of weapon should do that according to this Codex, whatever)...

I stopped at the ENGINEs - figured I use some input form the cumminity before committing to assign final values

Standard Engines should provide no advantage in this type of system (i.e. Jovian Pattern Class 1 Drive to 4 found in the CORE Book); anything else thats "harder to find and or obtain" should give some sort of Movement Buff herein - lets see what you guys have to say!

Morbid

Keep in mind I've looked at many "house rules" for ship to ship action - so telling me to go here and use this or that really isn't a constructive answer or any help to this effort herein - like any of the content I share with the community - if you don't like this or its not for you - that's OK please move on and save your comments...

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I went page by page in my Voidship Portfolio: www.wurkhaus.com/docs/2015-rogue-trader-voidship-portfolio.pdf and made sure I assigned only those Components that had something to conceivably offer the Ship as a whole in terms of raw combat ability…

Certain components that helped with maneuvering were assigned in most cases as a D (defensive dice pool bonus) or in other cases certain scanners helped with ballistic skill rolls as O (offensive dice pool); and finally a lot of components helped the overall CREW when you look at all the facets from Life Support to a Brig (keeps the criminals off of the launch button in the heat of a battle LOL)

So that was the concept / how I can to my conclusions therein – assigning values…

What I did with Weapons (correct me if I'm wrong or off)

Macrocannons = Short Ranged (able to perform a single Hit; can double O tally if broadsiding a target)

Lances = Long Ranged (able to perform a single Hit)

Nova Cannons = Mid Ranged (able to do Area of Effect Hit)

Torpedoes = No Range Limit (able to do Multiple Hits based on Degrees of Success)

Morbid

Hazeroth-class Privateer vs. Vagabond-class Trader

Hazeroth-class Privateer
Species: Human
Ship Type: Hazeroth-class Privateer
Ship Class: Raider
Power: 39 / 45
Space: 31 / 35
Essential Components:
• Jovian Pattern Class 2 Drive
• Strelov 1 Warp Engine
• Geller Field
• Single Void Shield Array
• Armoured Command Bridge
• M-1.r Life Sustainer
• Pressed-crew Quarters
• Mark-201.b Auger Array
Supplemental Components: None
Weapon Components:
• Prow: Mars Pattern Macrocannons
• Dorsal: Ryza Pattern Plasma Battery

Hazeroth-class Privateer
4D = Raider 2D + Single Void Shield Array 1D + Armoured Command Bridge 1D
2O = Mars Pattern Macrocannons 2D
5O = Ryza Pattern Plasma Battery 5D
2C = Pressed-crew Quarters 1D + M-1.r Life Sustainer 0D + Mark-201.b Auger Array 1D

Vagabond-class Trader
Species: Human
Ship Type: Vagabond-class Trader
Ship Class: Transport
Power: 33 / 35
Space: 29 / 40
Essential Components:
• Strelov 1 Warp Engine
• Geller Field
• Single Void Shield Array
• Voidsmen Quarters
• Jovian Pattern Class 1 Drive
• Commerce Bridge
• Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer
• Mark-100 Auger Array
Supplemental Components:
• Main Cargo Hold
Weapon Components:
• Prow: Thunderstrike Macrocannons
• Dorsal: Mars Pattern Macrocannons

Vagabond-class Trader
2D = Transport 1D + Single Void Shield Array 1D
1O = Thunderstrike Macrocannons 1O
2O = Mars Pattern Macrocannons 2O
2C = Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer 1D + Mark-100 Auger Array 0D + Voidsmen Quarters 1D

So in my example above we have a Hazeroth Privateer vs. a Vagabond Trader!

When the Hazeroth attacks the Vagabond:

Roll (depending on the weapon chosen - say the Ryza Pattern Plasma Battery) 5D10 vs. 2D10 - if Hazeroth gets a higher tally then it is considered to have "Hit" the Vagabond - seeing as the Vagabond ship is only a Transport that single Hit would have either defeated or destroyed the vessel...

Super Quick and Simple! (now rinse and repeat x10 ships x20 ships, or whatever...)

Morbid

Check it out Five verse Five...

Quote: "Yeah, simulations are just fine, but not for the tabletop. Abstraction is your friend."

- Errant Knight

Beautiful. I think I'll try it for a massed combat I'm planning, but that's a good ways off in my campaign. I was going to narrate the general battle anyway and only fight out the PCs personal vessel(s). I have at least 3 mass spaceship combats lined up for my current campaign and this might be a big help. I'll post the results when it happens (which won't be for months).

A couple notes...

1. I like that there's a good amount of charts. That means plenty of ways to affect the combat, yet it all boils down to a simple test.
2. I could take issue with many of the component effects. For example, a repuslor array adds no extra shielding. You could make an argument for it detering torpedo attacks. In the end, some of these components really don't affect combat that much. The biggest factors, whether in RT or BFG, are the guns, the armor, maneuverability, and the gunners' skill. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Hey Errant!

I'm totally a noob when it boils down to the components and how they perform both fluff wise and game wise - anyhow I am totally open to changing ANYTHING herein in order to deliver the best system possible.

I played with mechanics like;

Exploding Dice (d10 on 10s)
Minimum Dice Values (example; like say 1, 2 and 3s count as minimum of 4)
Maximum Dice Values (example; like say 10, 9 and 8s count as maximum of 7)

I tried to make it an "additive" process for doing the tallies rather then a subtractive process - though I have a handful of "things" that do subtract from this or that...

I made the Castellian Shield with Exploding Dice - the Repulsor sounds really interesting but I was at a loss on what to do with it honestly LOL

TESTING

Anyhow - I tried a 2 vs. 2 battle last night - and it all seemed to work out well / very very quick resolution!

Next I would like to do an actual Battlefleet Gothic Scenario using these houserules.

Outside of all that - I have an end campaign event coming up where the players have two big game sessions left;

1. They and an Eldar "high-up" are engaged to go to some world that said Eldar was banished from - this "visit" requires a surgical strike where in the Group must fight its way through said solar system (lots of ship to ship) to said planet - deal with orbital opposition - then land at the "palace" - fight some more - all with the intent purpose of helping said Eldar gain some sort of "artifact" that will allow this exile to "control" all the Eldar there who are present when the prize is gained / used!

2. Then the group returns to Footfall - (then and there lots of ship to ship) there various factions and old alliances culminate to one final climatic battle (the campaign arc - the Rogue Trader was sent to ferret out TWO big foes - namely some sort of Mechnicus "guy" who is based on the puppetmaster from Ghost in a Shell while his mind-influenced Inquisitor "partner" - i.e.e shake the bees nest)

Let me know how and what needs adjustment?

Morbid

I'll see I can find some time tonight, or maybe this weekend, to give it some effort. I'm out and about right now. I've often thought of reworking space combat but didn't want to put that much time and effort into it. I always thought the Crew Rating should have a greater effect, and for many reasons. It makes Imperial Navy ships more combat-oriented than the Rogue Trader and his wonder-buddies. It makes NPC ships in general have a better chance of at least scratching some paint of the RT's ship.

If I were to redo the whole she-bang, I'd increase the strengths of the weapons and base the number of hits on a 1d100 dice roll versus the Crew Rating, but even misses would hit in the case of macrocannons, they'd just hit fewer times (with the outside chance of total whiffs, especially in the case of escorts with little armament). The RT and his/her wonder-buddies' BS would probably modify the damage inflicted. And I'd make sure that damage was common, so that every ship would come out of combat with wounds, and that in the case of solid dice-rolling the combat would end quickly. There's sure to be a way to give enough detail to one-on-one combats that PCs can decisively influence, and yet still quickly adjudicate massive fleet actions, and that should be the objective.

For these house rules - the CREW metric - is what you roll under (via d100%) - for our use CREW represents pretty much everything internally (i.e the people and their respective environment) - anyhow...

From the previous example - CREW can get depleted in ONE of TWO ways:

BASIC EXAMPLE OF PLAY

Ship A's Offensive tally is 47 while Ship B's tally came out to 36 - Ship B takes a Hit (47 - 36 = 9 Point Reduction to further CREW tally rolls )
Ship A's Offensive tally is 39 while Ship B's tally comes out to 45 - Ship B takes no Hits (CREW values hasn't been affected)

If Ship B is a Transport class vessel then it's been defeated (depending on the GM maybe even destroyed)

A. By the actual Voidship being Damaged (on a per Hit basis) SEE ABOVE

B. By Boarding Actions (i.e. dice pool vs. dice pool = o vs. d tallied pools against one another)

With "B" I didn't find much in the game - sure I got Murder Servitors and Storm Troop Detachment - but there should be more factors of play

DEFENSIVE for CREW (d)

- Rogue Trader (aboard Vessel) +3 d (lower cased letter "d" denotes DEFENSE vs. Offensive "o")
- Other PCs (aboard Vessel) +1 d / per Player Character

OFFENSIVE for CREW (o)
- You send "Boarding Specialists" +2 o

- Specially Equipped (i.e. one/time use) +1 o - requires an Upkeep Test at the end of Battle - if fail - Dynasty must re-Acquire that "Special Equipment"

AFTER each side tallies their d & o; each side rolls Tally Test against each other (d vs. o) - if o wins subtract the difference from "d" Value tally; that way the Defender's Pool (d) is reduced with each incursion from "winning" Boarding Parties!

With each instance where CREW value is being reduce - it thusly becomes harder and harder to doll out new Special Orders let alone Extended Actions from PCs that require the "hands" of those subserviant beneath them (i.e. servants who carry out said Player's Extended Action)...

As far as Player Characters are concerned:

I would never handle PC ( boots on the ground "in-person" encounter) combat using such a home brewed system such as this - that in itself would be handled as a normal encounter... This system could conceivably kill a Player in less than a few minutes - not something any player who has devoted Weeks to Months of play - would enjoy, but hey I put in the option to gamble (XP and/or Fate Point Awards).

Morbid

Getting "Movement" RIGHT

So in 40k - which ships are the fastest (human vessels) - I read BFG and saw that Eldar (theme wise) have the fastest ships in the game...

Transport
Raider

Frigate

L. Cruiser

Cruiser

G. Cruiser

I would like to start off MOVEMENT in "boxes" (i.e. grid) - in that it will help facilitate ONLINE Play (loading a 4 foot by 6 foot play area is not feasible online)...

Are G. Cruisers the fastest "type" of ships (omitting specifics of course)?

Are the smaller ships like Transport or Raider the fastest?

- this is omitting other details like "special engine-X" and such - just wanted some basics before delving into Components

Guidance PLS

Morbid

In BFG the general rule is the bigger the slower, with some notable exceptions. So grand cruisers are slow. Transports are slow, too. They also turn badly, though FFG saw fit to change that. Perhaps they think RT transports are the sporty variety. Would you like the links to BFG pdfs? There's been some revamping of the old BFG stuff to make the ships more uniform in capability. Those are floating around out there, too. I know I have them somewhere.

Here are Imperial, Chaos and Astartes BfG ships converted to RT rules, if that's helpful... Also the Covenant from Halo, cos some people have too much time on their hands.

http://darkreign.org/tags/fleets

This is perfect guys - I'll get on this today!

OK the stats have been flesh out HEREs What I've Got...

LINK TO PDF

LINK to Excel File (If you think some things are "off" please adjust and submit back and I will make the post those changes on the PDF moving forward...)

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I really glossed over much of the FFG numbers in alot of instances - rather I read the descriptions and then thought to balance against what fluff I read vs. a "fun" experience (this is a game at the end of the day lol)...

Considerations / Following the Logic Therein:

Weapon Systems

- So if I saw Weapon System had a "Strength" higher than others that was reason to assign a +1 O

- Seeing some how generally weapons ranged in Damage from D10+2 to as high as D10+6 = d10+2 started off at +1 O (any other special caveats added a +1 O)

- Ranges; there was too many specifics though if a system was purpose built specifically with a RANGE benefit or DRAWBACK i tried to incorporate that in the numbers...

Playing with the Dice

- I opted to add to Lances that natural rolls of "10" do a HIT; albeit with some caveats!
- Torpedoes have the ability to be very deadly (HITs are generated by degrees of success)

- Macro (stuff) does DOUBLE damage when Broadsiding; those systems pre-built to ONLY do Broadsides I tired to give some sort of benefit since they were limited by that DRAWBACK...

Speed / Movement:

- I went with my best judgement - so see the stats (keep in mind those stats are for Human Vessels)

- I would if needed (quick play) for Eldar give em a +2 Speed Buff to all Classes of their Vessels - thats omitting the whole sailing on the solar winds thing - if you need to do that too bump it up to +3 at best!

MISC.

- I added in TWO new components / status indicators

a. Siege Warding; basically the ship has been siege proofed with Booby Traps (think of an old school D&D Dungeon, yeah lol)

b. Mechanicus Ships (as per BFG) get a tremendous buff against being Boarded!

Thats everything that stands out in my mind ATM (if I were to hit the lotto I would just hire some people full time to do this stuff for me LMFAO)

Anyways jokes aside please analyze, test, and advise!

Enjoy Everyone

Stay GAMING

Morbid

I've read very little fluff for space combat and didn't like what I did read. I remember one battle I read about where the Chaos squadron keeps jumping in at combat range and that doesn't meet up with the fluff from a other book I read, so I decided which metric I liked (not the first) and disregarded anything that permits the one I didn't like.

BTW, I'm back to the grind. Vacation is over. So I won't be posting nearly as much for a few months. The first few months of every work year is hectic.