Hellhounds' Hunt

By Indalecio, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

The Hunt ability from the Hellhound's monster card read as follows:

1 surge: After this attack resolves, you may remove the target from the map and place it in an empty adjacent space to this monster.


Question 1: If the attack missed, it still resolved, correct? EDIT: Yeah, no surge can be spent upon missing, so obviously Hunt cannot trigger.
Question 2: Can you perform Hunt if the hero has been KO:ed by the attack? E.g. move the hero token?

Thanks by advance

EDIT: I guess the same can be asked about Knockback ability.
Once the attack has resolved it means damage has been dealt and the hero is already KO, therefore there is no legal "target" anymore for the ability to carry out? There used to be a valid target though and that's why I´m asking.

Edited by Indalecio

1- nope, since the attack is missed, surge cannot be spend, so it can't be used after the resolution of the attack

2- not sure, would say no, since the trigger time is "after" the resolution of the attack, the hero is a token and cannot be moved, but not so sure.

Thanks Rugal

This one is giving me a headache.

One can say the target is already removed from the map straight after damage has been dealt. The problem is, though, is that the OL has to declare how the surges will be spent and that would probably be prior to knowing if the hero is KO or not. Even if dices have been rolled I guess there can still be effects which would help mitigating the damage, like an item you can exhaust after dices have been rolled to give you more defense.

So in practice, before surges are spent you can see the attack deals enough damage to kill the hero. If Hunt cannot trigger on a hero token then this extra surge cannot be spent (OL cards aside). Then the hero exhausts his shield and survives. Can the OL retroactively spend the surge to perform Hunt, then, since it suddenly would have become legal again? Can you say "I spend that surge on Hunt if you survive, otherwise I´ll go trigger Flurry to get an extra attack on a second hero"? I guess not? Sounds like a bad situation for the OL.

When does Knockback apply? The effect doesn't say "after this attack resolves" like Hunt does. Can the OL in that case have the hero die three spaces away from the Ynfernael Hulk?

Thematically you could throw the corpse away, couldn't you? :)

Edited by Indalecio

All surge abilities are applied during the spend surges step. Knockback, Pierce, + damage, etc. All of them get applied during the spend surges step, in the order the attacker chooses.

Conditions are the exception.* Conditions are predicated by "if this attack deals at least 1 damage..." in most cases. Even though "surge: poison" was applied in the spend surges step, the target/victim doesn't actually receive the condition card until step 5. This allows situations like "Doom" causing an extra damage on the attack when it is gained, but "Weakened" having no effect until the next attack. Response from Nathan below regarding that awhile back (taken from unofficial FAQ, page 9.)

It is my conclusion that you cannot resolve hunt after defeating a hero. My reasoning is that when the hero is defeated, you remove him from the map and place a hero token in his space (and this happens right when he suffers damage equal to his health., which is before the attack is resolved**, see response from Kara below.) Since the target has already been removed from the map, you cannot "remove him from the map" a second time. The token which is currently in the hero's space at the time hunt would resolve is not your target, so you can't move it.

*Conditions are not applied until damage is dealt. This being the case, Weakened does not take effect on the attack it is given because the damage has already been calculated to determine if Weakened will take effect or not.
Thanks for playing!
Nathan Hajek
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

** There is not a timing conflict between Advance and Stalwart. Advance triggers when a figure is defeated and Stalwart when the attack is resolved, which are not simultaneous events. The defeat of the figure happens just before (and in fact often leads to) the resolution of the attack. This distinction is clearer in attacks that target multiple figures. The attack is not resolved at the time one figure is defeated, but after each figure has been dealt damage (defeated or not), the attack would then resolve.

Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Edited by Zaltyre

There is not a timing conflict between Advance and Stalwart. Advance triggers when a figure is defeated and Stalwart when the attack is resolved, which are not simultaneous events. The defeat of the figure happens just before (and in fact often leads to) the resolution of the attack. This distinction is clearer in attacks that target multiple figures. The attack is not resolved at the time one figure is defeated, but after each figure has been dealt damage (defeated or not), the attack would then resolve.

So, does this mean that a Knight can use Stalwart and Advance "at the same time", before being defeated?

Yes. The original question was:

2a) Can a Knight who defeats a monster while using "Stalwart" then exhaust "Advance" before being defeated to move and attack? 2b) If yes, could the OL use the timing rule to defeat the Knight before doing his "Advance" move and attack? Thanks!

Question 2b assumed that the knight would be defeated (since the stalwart attack resolved) at the same time he would do advance. Since it's likely the OL's turn when the knight gets defeated, this would mean the "advance" could be prevented by the OL choosing to resolve the KO first. However, Kara's response clarified that the window to trigger advance actually occurs before the attack resolves. This means that the knight, upon suffering wounds up to his health, could:

1) Trigger Stalwart to move up to his speed and attack

2) Exhaust Advance during the deal damage step (as long as the target does get defeated)

3) Perform the move and attack granted by Advance

4) Finally be knocked out

Edited by Zaltyre