Hey all, I thought I'd bring something up about the last form in a turn you play. Now we all know that when you want to play that first form, it's referred to as "First F". That was a good move on the part of the company, to remove the excess text on old cards that said. "You may only play this ability as the first form. And it's in the new rules which is helpful. Now I bring up Last F/Final F, because their are some old cards and new one's also I think that say that. I'm a legacy player, but I haven't played the game for awhile but I do know that were old cards that had the text, after you use this ability, your turn ends. I think it would be easier for James Hata and the rest of FFG, if they just changed it to say Last F or Final F. Then put that in the rules, so that way people know that the turn would end after a player uses the Final F/Last F. It would be just as convienent as First F, and then there wouldn't be extra un needed text on those characters as well. So, what do you guys think of this idea?

Some cards that have "...your turn ends" are E's, so "Last F" wouldn't work, nor would "Last E" as they are usually conditional on something (i.e. your attack dealing dmg).

I think FFG will keep it this way for uniformity.

Smazzurco said:

Final (something) could work. Like "This is my final answer." If it's an F, you do this, and your turn ends. If it's negated, your turn still ends. On Es, it would be "You can no longer play enhances for the rest of this enhance phase."

this could work. changing something to a keyword is a good idea because less reading means crisper gameplay.

First of all, no one would ever play anything with a Last E or Last R. It severely limits whatever you want to do and, most importantly, takes away from the element of not letting the opponent know when you're done with your enhancements. Let's say he's planning on blocking an attack. You have speed pumps, but are leaving them for another attack. He doesn't know this so he's playing abilities accordingly. As soon as you state this is your last E, the opponent will simply go... "Oh, then I'll just use Stand Off" and go off on all his E's, knowing there's absolutely no way you can counteract with your own E's.

Last R will always mean you cannot respond in multiples. So if something is to be a Last R, it might as well be a normal R with an action card that discards itself from the card pool. It still leaves it open for more responses, and would NOT cut response chains short on only one side while the other possibly reaps the benefits. I've only ever seen something like this needed in ONE card, and it clarified itself pretty simply: Demuth's Sponsorship.

Last F? The reason these abilities like First etc. were compressed was to save space. "Only playable as your first form of your turn" is a much bigger chunk of text than "and your turn ends." The text box is small enough to be a nuisance when a lot of text is needed, but adding a whole new mechanic just to cut down four words doesn't seem worth the change in the rules and the confusion, IMO.

guitalex2008 said:

IIRC it was played before, T.Hawk (the only playable one, somewhat) had one and he was played though not at high-level tournaments and I recall some Es stating that you cannot play another Es this enhance phase.

Homme Chapeau said:

Q. E. D.

People didn't play the starter T. Hawk. And also, that T. Hawk's E wasn't the last; it put a limit on how many you could play afterwards. You could still fake out the opponent into thinking you were going to use the allowed E's.

Did this make people want to use him competitively any? Hell no.

The only way people ever consider E's like these is if both players were cut short, like Scroll of the Abyss's Death E.

I don't see anything wrong with changing the templating, but I don't know if there were really very many cards that end the turn (where Last F would matter) and it's just adding more complexity if it were added with such little gain.

re: last E/R/F in general: It's a cool concept. "You may not play another [Enhance/Response/Form] until the next Form resolves, or the turn ends." Maybe we can balance Yoga Mastery with that

You wouldn't want to have your options restricted, but you get a stronger effect than a similarly costed ability.

Wafflecopter said:

Exactly - saying "Nobody would play that!" is just having a limited imagination.

Honestly, I love the combo mechanic, and a lot of people do. Propose this in a heavy control metagame? Laughed out of the building. Nobody's play this - too situational, etc.

It's not limited imagination, it's realism.

You'll see the Last E card played at your local tournaments a lot. And that's only where you'll see it.

The T. Hawk that was mentioned is a prime example. A marginally important ability (as it required Thunder Clap as an action for it to ever matter, and one of his foundations was better at gathering tokens, for BLOCKING), limiting the rest of your enhance phase. It better say "Last E: This attack gets +5 damage and is unblockable. If this attack deals damage, it will fix your car, do your taxes and cook you breakfast in the morning." for it to be even remotely worth running in tournaments.