Well you can run

Miranda

TLT

Rec Spec

Horton

TLT

Dutch

TLT

R2-D6

VI

only three TLTs but lots of opportunity to modify reds and they all fire at PS 8. If you really like rolling dice you can add R5-K6 instead of R2+VI and go nutty with TLs (green dice being cooperative that is). A TL+F Miranda with a shield to spare can help cover the donut hole on the Ys. Probably still dies to Brobots with VI and glitterstim if not flown very well.

Not scared at all. Soontir, carnor, and the palp mobile with sensor hammer eats them for breakfast. Multiple tlt ships are generally poor handling ships. Unmodded three dice have little effect against turtled soontir with autothrusters, even if it's 8 attacks.

Anything with autothrusters and a higher ps than 2 will tear them up one round at a time. At least, that's been my experience so far. They aren't the game changers everyone is making them out to be.

With hwks, there are crew to combine with standard action to modify each attack.

Or you've got something like 4 TLT Hwks w/Feedback Array and one of the HWKs is Mux. That makes the donut hole a really dangerous place for a guy like Soontir.

I don't think that TLTs are scary and unbeatable but I do think there are people that underestimated how great they are.

Well, think of it like this. The the TIE swarm is still considered to be a viable play style based on the fact that it brings 8 shots to the table.

In the same price, you can bring 4 syndicate thugs with TLT to the table which also get 8 shots, each of which has more survivability than 2 TIE fighters...

No, they don't. A Y-wing is more durable than a TIE fighter, but depending how you do the math, it's 35-40% more--not even close to twice near as durable. In comparison to the 8-TIE swarm, 4x TLT Y-wings is actually a glass cannon.

Not scared at all. Soontir, carnor, and the palp mobile with sensor hammer eats them for breakfast. Multiple tlt ships are generally poor handling ships. Unmodded three dice have little effect against turtled soontir with autothrusters, even if it's 8 attacks.

Anything with autothrusters and a higher ps than 2 will tear them up one round at a time. At least, that's been my experience so far. They aren't the game changers everyone is making them out to be.

They aren't unmodified 3 dice attacks in most instances. With agromech and a focus action the y-wings can modify each once.

With hwks, there are crew to combine with standard action to modify each attack.

You're running four Y-wings with TLT and an R4 Agromech each?

The maximum damage output of hlc makes it far more terrifying than tlt

Also, as had to be pointed out a few times, wave 7 does very little for ordnance. We got munis, stims, and redline. That's it. Wave 8 is more an ord fix with inq tie + pogostick packs giving us hilarious ordnance buffs and the means to use them

Wave 7 is the bomb wace, giving us the k, death rain, munis, ions, and the game changing conners

If there was a 17 point ship with 8 hull/shield and pilot skill 2 or better that could equip a Heavy Laser Cannon.

The ships you can bring HLC on are either too expensive to have more than 2 of or too few hull and shield to outlast the tlt spam.

Ordinance on a high PS named is probably the best way to do some serious damage to a Y-wing. That or brining 3 HLC or FCS/Gunner shuttles each with a hull upgrade and face tanking them.

Wouldn't 5x Autoceptor do well? Skirt the TLTs at range ~4 and then blast into range 1 next turn?

Well, think of it like this. The the TIE swarm is still considered to be a viable play style based on the fact that it brings 8 shots to the table.

In the same price, you can bring 4 syndicate thugs with TLT to the table which also get 8 shots, each of which has more survivability than 2 TIE fighters...

No, they don't. A Y-wing is more durable than a TIE fighter, but depending how you do the math, it's 35-40% more--not even close to twice near as durable. In comparison to the 8-TIE swarm, 4x TLT Y-wings is actually a glass cannon.

Not scared at all. Soontir, carnor, and the palp mobile with sensor hammer eats them for breakfast. Multiple tlt ships are generally poor handling ships. Unmodded three dice have little effect against turtled soontir with autothrusters, even if it's 8 attacks.

Anything with autothrusters and a higher ps than 2 will tear them up one round at a time. At least, that's been my experience so far. They aren't the game changers everyone is making them out to be.

They aren't unmodified 3 dice attacks in most instances. With agromech and a focus action the y-wings can modify each once.

With hwks, there are crew to combine with standard action to modify each attack.

You're running four Y-wings with TLT and an R4 Agromech each?

4 hwks can do recspec/k4 crew or feedback/hotshot, or a mix averaging 25pts each.

If there was a 17 point ship with 8 hull/shield and pilot skill 2 or better that could equip a Heavy Laser Cannon.

The ships you can bring HLC on are either too expensive to have more than 2 of or too few hull and shield to outlast the tlt spam.

@ViscerothSWG: 4x HWK is one of the weakest lists out there, defensively, and while it's very accurate it still has to contend with the damage cap. I've played both sides of a couple of different matchups with TLT + Recon HWK, and it's not nearly as scary as 4 Y-wings--even if you can modify all your shots.

It's part of why I think fears about TLT soam are overblown: HWKs don't scare me and Y-wings are going to be taking a lot of unmodified shots (and are okay but not great defensively, and have okay but not great dials).

4 HWK is not only weakest defensively, it's laughable at range 1 AND has the most difficult time staying out of it

no hard 3 turns? red 3 banks? yuck

if there's ever a maneuver I abuse the **** out off with TLTs, it's that 3 bank on the Ys and Ks

It tears apart low agility ships but does start having a problem against ships that role 3 green dice or more

Since this has been touched on, from my limited experience TLT ships really don't like a TIE Fighter swarm.

I have to say the TLT doesn't scare me and that only a very few ships get them and those all need the help they can get. But with that said the funniest argument for the TLT was when someone said "they can now attack out of arc" when turret attacks could already do that. LOL

Now yes you can fly 4 TLT's but the ships that can use them will be hard to maneuver so if you can get all 8 attacks in on one target you are lucky and you will not be in a good position the next turn. Faster ships should be able to separate them and take them out one ship at a time.

Is it good? Yes. But I still don't think it will break the game like the old Phantom (Whisper) did.

People don't like change. the thought of having to come up with a new list and new tactics is to hard for some so they will complain about it till an FAQ comes out to nerf the problem or someone comes up with a easy to fly list to counter TLT they can all copy.

We just might do a batrep this week to show there not that scary

Now yes you can fly 4 TLT's but the ships that can use them will be hard to maneuver so if you can get all 8 attacks in on one target you are lucky and you will not be in a good position the next turn. Faster ships should be able to separate them and take them out one ship at a time.

Y-Wings don't have a bad dial, it just doesn't have a ton of green on it. Add R2 or Unhinged to a Y-Wing and they've got a dial that has at least as much green as an Interceptor dial.

Really whats the biig deal with it deals max 1 damge for two shots

Green dice.

One thing I found flying against this sort of list (Mux and 3 unhinged Ys all with TLT) was that getting into range 1 against 1 or two if them was easy, but all of them at once is impossible, so you're always taking some damage. My Latts lost his shields in the first exchange as 3 were at range 3. I swung round behind his formation and got in range 1 of Mux and one of the Ys but still had two shooting at me. Next turn he only needed 1 ship to target to Latts finish her off.

Because you get to attack twice. It almost forces your opponent to use up damage mitigation items like evade tokens, focus tokens, C-3PO, etc. for the first attack, leaving your opponent's ship wide open for the second attack. This is compounded if you have many ships that have TLT. Right now, the cheapest user of TLT is the Rebel Operative HWK, at 22 total points. So, you can easily fit 4 of those in a team and still have a Z-95 to boot.

Just a thought: what's the chance you'll get a hit through on stealth device auto fel? With or without tokens? How many shots should you expect it to take?

One thing I found flying against this sort of list (Mux and 3 unhinged Ys all with TLT) was that getting into range 1 against 1 or two if them was easy, but all of them at once is impossible, so you're always taking some damage. My Latts lost his shields in the first exchange as 3 were at range 3. I swung round behind his formation and got in range 1 of Mux and one of the Ys but still had two shooting at me. Next turn he only needed 1 ship to target to Latts finish her off.

This guy gets it.

However, approach is key when fighting TLTs. Most lists can't afford to trade r3 shots with them, so if your list isnt fast enough to get into R1 on the first exchange atleast try to get to R2 so you trade damage more evenly. Bonus: If you are able to trade at R3 favorably try to make sure not all TLTs are shooting you at once.

And yeah you can build lists that beat TLTs most of the time, but (as with the Phantom previously), the question is how much this limits overall list choices and meta variety. If all thats left in a couple weeks/months is TLT lists and anti-TLT lists i dont think the meta is in a good place. And i cant imagine that is what FFG wants either.

With all that being said, it takes quite some effort on the opposing players part to counter TLTs while it takes little effort in the TLT players part to pull this list off, it's just that simple to play.

You can even add unhinged astromechs to the Ys which gives them 5 green maneuvers (more than most ships in the game) and most importantly, turning that hard 3 from red to green. You can pretty much fly it in circles around the board edges (simplified).

That's really the part i dont like, it's just not rewarding for me to play (personally).

It reminds me of Fat Han, in terms of point and click (boost) usability.

Bombs and missles have always been effective against the right ships and/or with the right action economy

Problem is players don't fly the right ships for the reason that they are vulnerable. Missiles require the firing arc and Meta is so Arc dodge heavy that missiles won't work. Fly a turret? well you can't shoot a missile out of the printed firing arc, so you would be better off to take an additional 12 point filler ship as another body for your opponent to chew through.

If there was a 17 point ship with 8 hull/shield and pilot skill 2 or better that could equip a Heavy Laser Cannon.

The ships you can bring HLC on are either too expensive to have more than 2 of or too few hull and shield to outlast the tlt spam.

You can get 3 Shuttles with HLCs for 84 points. Even with dice on the side of a 4 TLT squad it would take 2 rounds to drop a single shuttle. You can put Sensor Jammers and Tactical Jammers on all of the shuttles and still have a point left for a small initiative bid.

I've tried flying shuttles without engine upgrade before, it is very frustrating.

The problem with the Omicron pilots is that because of simultaneous fire, the Y-wings will get to make shots in any round you would finish one off. You can throw a lot of damage at them. You need to be able to destroy one Y-wing in the first round of shooting, and in the 2nd round.

The Y-wings will also have focus tokens available for at least 1 attack, and I don't much like the odds of 3 attack dice versus 1 defense die.

I'd almost say 4 shuttles with engine upgrade would fare better. But I don't own 4 shuttles to try!

How does it reliably do 2damage a turn you still got to roll to hit it not like your give 2damage with out shooting and the still get to roll defense dice. This u auto get 2hits is not true

Froggy, like it or not it IS true. I came in 2nd of 14 yesterday using 4 thug Y's with TLT / unhinged astromech. Fly in decent formation, pick your target, focus fire, murder, repeat.

I wiped out an Aggressor in 2 turns and his firespray companion 2 turns after that. It's reliable plinky damage. Chewie / leebo also got munched way faster than I thought they would.

How does it reliably do 2damage a turn you still got to roll to hit it not like your give 2damage with out shooting and the still get to roll defense dice. This u auto get 2hits is not true

Froggy, like it or not it IS true. I came in 2nd of 14 yesterday using 4 thug Y's with TLT / unhinged astromech. Fly in decent formation, pick your target, focus fire, murder, repeat.

I wiped out an Aggressor in 2 turns and his firespray companion 2 turns after that. It's reliable plinky damage. Chewie / leebo also got munched way faster than I thought they would.

Wait, what? According to some trolls aggressors auto win against TLT.

It does not reliably deal 2 damage. Unless you do fancy Focus sharing or take squad leader for an extra action, you can only modify one attack with it. On targets that people say hate this turret such as Soontir, he avoids the damage nicely, unless you block him, just like always. Even other ships with boost have no problem because of AT.

Yes, it does practically guarantee 1 damage on most ships and offers a good chance at 2 damage, excluding the decimator, but I feel the price and the platform selection for taking this turret balance it nicely. The only list that is roughly skewed in power by TLTs introduction are lists with multiple Y-Wings.