Target-locking a ship you already have locked

By digitalbusker, in X-Wing Rules Questions

In the discussion of Redline and FCS, it's come up that you can't target-lock a ship that you've already got a target lock on.

What's the source for that? Is it spelled out somewhere, or are we inferring it from these FAQ items:

Q: If a ship already has a target lock on an enemy ship, can the locking ship acquire a target lock again on the same enemy ship in order to trigger a game effect (such as "Dutch” Vander)?

A: No.

--FAQ p15

If a ship already has a target lock on Captain Kagi, it may acquire a target lock on a different ship.

--FAQ p7

Here's is the more relevant FAQ entry i think.

Q: If a ship already has a target lock on an enemy ship, can the locking ship acquire a target lock again on the same enemy ship in order to trigger a game effect (such as “Dutch” Vander)?

A: No.

It seems to me at one point they had something in the FAQ that said you could gain a TL on the same ship a 2nd time, but doing so wouldn't actually do anything.

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

I think It's the combination of the two that lead to the conclusion that a target you already have a target lock on is not a legal target for the target lock action. It would be much clearer if FFG stated this outright. Hopefully they will do so when they release a Rules Reference Guide for X-Wing.

If a ship can target lock Kagi then Kagi must be target locked. If having an existing target lock on Kagi allows you to acquire a target lock on others then it follows that he is not a legal target.

Also, the page FAQ entries are just clarifying the rulebook which says (on page 9) that TL tokens are only removed if spent or the ship acquires a TL on a different ship.

Edited by Forgottenlore

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

Abilities overrule general rules.

Redline may take a second target lock on the same target when he takes a target lock. If he already has a lock on his target he is unable to acquire the initial target lock that triggers his ability.

Edited by WWHSD

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

I think so, and I am reasonably confident that it will eventually be ruled as such, but there are those who disagree. In most cases it won't matter a whole lot (I already pointed out the work around with cluster missiles).

Also, the page FAQ entries are just clarifying the rulebook which says (on page 9) that TL tokens are only removed if spent or the ship acquires a TL on a different ship.

Okay, I can buy that as a source for the general version of the rule (Redline is something else again). I'd rather have a clear cut rule that says you can't acquire a target lock on a ship you're already locked onto than have a situation where you are allowed to do that but it doesn't matter because the FAQ specifically disallows every case where it would make a difference.

Forgottenlore is correct, there's some disagreement on how to interpret Redline (he's wrong, but that's okay). There are a handful of threads where it has been debated. If you want to argue about it, please use one of the existing threads to keep things consolidated.

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

Abilities overrule general rules.

Redline may take a second target lock on the same target when he takes a target lock. If he already has a lock on his target he is unable to acquire the initial target lock that triggers his ability.

so would it be in the persons best interest to use the second targetlock to reroll nothing in the case of having FCS and a wantingness to acquire two targetlocks?

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

Abilities overrule general rules.

Redline may take a second target lock on the same target when he takes a target lock. If he already has a lock on his target he is unable to acquire the initial target lock that triggers his ability.

so would it be in the persons best interest to use the second targetlock to reroll nothing in the case of having FCS and a wantingness to acquire two targetlocks?

Yes. Also note that Redline's ability is a "may" and not required.

So with Cluster Missiles, spend one TL to fire, one to modify the first attack, use FCS to gain a single TL, use FCS to modify the second attack, use FCS to gain a pair of TLs.

That's Forgottenlore's Cluster Missile work around that he mentioned.

Edited by WWHSD

doesn't redline's ability allow him/her to do so? isn't it reasonable to believe that with FCS assuming you spent one of your TL's to use a missile to then Reacquire (assuming you spend the remaining to modify dice [even if you didnt]) up to two TL's on the same target.

Abilities overrule general rules.

Redline may take a second target lock on the same target when he takes a target lock. If he already has a lock on his target he is unable to acquire the initial target lock that triggers his ability.

so would it be in the persons best interest to use the second targetlock to reroll nothing in the case of having FCS and a wantingness to acquire two targetlocks?

Two target locks on the same target equates to a missile/torpedo launch and a dice modify each turn until it's dead. So, yes, getting the timing right in order to get those two locks is definitely the best way to go.