So I thought I'd figure out the average damage per point spent on ships and squadrons to give people stuff to compare. My methodology is fairly simple. I took average damage of the best arc at each range and divided by cost. Then I did the same for 2 arcs and again for 2 arcs with a CF command. I did NOT take into account accuracies, as that involves doing the numbers again for each specific target and was far more complicated than I wanted to. Someone else should feel free to do that. First the numbers (best to worst):

1 arc at long range

0.044 Neb-b S

0.039 Neb-b E

0.034 CR-90a

0.031 AFM2b

0.031 VSD-I

0.028 AFM2a

0.027 GSD-I

0.026 VSD-II

0.025 ISD-II

0.024 GSD-II

0.000 CR-90b

1 arc at medium range

0.058 CR-90b

0.053 VSD-II

0.051 CR-90a

0.050 ISD-II

0.044 Neb-b S

0.042 AFM2b

0.039 Neb-b E

0.037 AFM2a

0.031 VSD-I

0.027 GSD-I

0.024 GSD-II

1 arc at short range

0.072 VSD-I

0.071 GSD-I

0.060 GSD-II

0.058 CR-90b

0.053 VSD-II

0.051 CR-90a

0.050 ISD-II

0.044 Neb-b S

0.042 AFM2b

0.039 Neb-b E

0.037 AFM2a

I'm going to skip the 2 arc with no CF dial, as the rankings are nearly identical with the exception that the CR-90a jumps from 5th place to 2nd place at long range.

2 arcs at long range with CF dial

0.074 Neb-b S

0.068 CR-90a

0.066 Neb-b E

0.063 AFM2b

0.062 VSD-I

0.056 AFM2a

0.053 VSD-II

0.048 GSD-II

0.044 ISD-II

0.040 GSD-I

0.000 CR-90b

2 arcs at medium range with CF dial

0.115 CR-90b

0.102 CR-90a

0.088 Neb-b S

0.088 VSD-II

0.081 ISD-II

0.079 Neb-b E

0.074 AFM2a

0.073 AFM2b

0.062 VSD-I

0.048 GSD-II

0.040 GSD-I

2 arcs at short range with CF dial

0.152 GSD-I

0.133 GSD-II

0.120 VSD-I

0.115 CR-90b

0.102 CR-90a

0.088 Neb-b S

0.088 VSD-II

0.081 ISD-II

0.079 Neb-b E

0.074 AFM2a

0.073 AFM2b

Squadrons Anti-ship

0.125 B-wing

0.111 TIE Bomber

0.100 Y-wing

0.068 A-wing

0.063 TIE fighter

0.063 TIE Adv

0.058 X-wing

0.045 TIE Interceptor

Squadrons Anti-squadron (TIE reroll counted as 0.438 damage)

0.242 TIE fighter

0.222 TIE Interceptor

0.154 X-wing

0.136 A-wing

0.125 TIE Adv

0.107 B-wing

0.100 Y-wing

0.083 TIE Bomber

Analysis

This analysis is from a pure damage standpoint only. Obviously we need to take into account shields, hull, speed and so forth for the full picture of a ship. But this does pull out some useful information.

On the ship side we see the Neb-bs to be the superior long range ship, the CR-90 and VSD-II the best medium ships, and the GSD-I going from worst to first at short range.

On the squadron side, no real surprise amongst squadrons, but compare the anti-ship damage per cost with the long range ship ratios. The B-wing, TIE Bomber, and Y-wing are all better than the best long range ship. The worst anti-ship squadron, TIE Interceptor, is still better than 3 ships INCLUDING the Imperial Star Destroyer and that's giving the ships 2 arcs and a CF dial. If we compare to 1 arc with no CF dial at long range, EVERY squadron is superior to every ship. The ONLY 2 ships better than a B-wing at ANY range are the GSD twins at short range. No wonder people like Demolisher. Demolisher (1 arc short no CF GSD-I) is 0.061 damage per point.

My son is waking up from a nap so I'll leave the rest of the analysis to you all.

Defense thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/186702-running-the-numbers-defense-per-point/?p=1764510

Never tel me the odds!

Good math

This pretty much confirms that Squadrons are worth their point cost, IF it weren't for the weird interaction between moving ships and the move or shoot nature w/out SC's.

This can be applied to certain upgrades to see their cost effectiveness. Enhanced Armaments produces .75 damage (realistically) and costs 10 for a .075 ratio making it great for the AFM2s, good for anything at long, but would lower the CR-90 efficiency at medium range.

This pretty much confirms that Squadrons are worth their point cost, IF it weren't for the weird interaction between moving ships and the move or shoot nature w/out SC's.

You can use this method to calculate the opportunity cost of using the Squadron command instead of CF. You can also calculate whether or not things like extended hanger are worth it.

As the op wisely stated this does exclude every other measurable so taking the leap that it justifies squadrons is dangerous, since the valuation presumes the units are actually in firing range. Interesting to see none the less!

Well the debate is never if squadron are worth their points, because statically they are, the problem is that in half of the games squadrons get "deleted" because if you squads have roughly equal damage to the ship you could have brought instead and then you play against someone that did bring that ship you usually end up losing equal ships but the problem is you are out of ships and he has 1 left then your squads just go *POOF*...

Interesting analysis, thanks. It kind of supports the gut feel with the different ships - for long range, the Rebels do it best. At short range, the Imperials will pound them to dust. (B-wings may beg to differ, but that is a whole different analysis on efficiency of squadron commands)

I am also pleasantly surprised to see the TIE fighters score so highly on anti-squadron. Combined with Howlrunner, they are a cheap and potent anti-squadron threat.

I didn't compute Howlrunner's effect. Wouldn't be that hard. It would be useful to know if there is a minimum swarm size to make her worth it.

On a slightly related note, the interceptors and A-wings don't have counter-attack figured in as there is no clear way how to do it. I guess you could estimate how many attacks they might take before being killed and then throw that in.

Bump to get this on the same page as the damage thread

Ah ! Didn't see you did already make this Very interesting math !

I'm very surprised by the results for the A-Wing and X-Wing in terms of anti-ship. They make sense statistically of course, but they're counter intuitive (which is why analysis like this is always good ! It's true that X-Wings have a tad less chacne to deal damage to enemy ships, but when they do they do it well if the enemy has no shields.

It confirms my suspicions about sending the A-Wings to peck away at enemy shields early on, then get them intercepted to get their counter. While X-Wings are much more potent as an activated anti-squadron.

Good job !

Howlrunner

Howlrunner surprised me. You do not reach greater damage per point cost until you get to Howlrunner + 4 TIEs. Of course, the extra die may prove useful in one-shotting ships. Here are the stats:

2 or more TIEs without Howlrunner come to 0.242 anti-squad damage/cost.

Howlrunner plus

TIE Cost Damage Ratio Diff

1 24 4.407 0.184 0.184

2 32 6.876 0.215 0.031

3 40 9.345 0.234 0.019

4 48 11.814 0.246 0.013

5 56 14.283 0.255 0.009

6 64 16.752 0.262 0.007

I used .438 damage for Howlrunners swarm reroll, and .469 damage for the TIE rerolls.

(If you're wondering where I get these numbers, the reroll is basically an extra die, or .5 damage as long as you rolled at least one blank. A normal TIE gets at least one blank 7/8 of the time. So I multiplied 0.5 by 7/8 to get .438. The TIEs being buffed by Howl have a 15/16 chance of rolling at least one blank so get 0.469 damage tacked on)

The Diff column is the difference in ratio for adding 1 TIE to the previous damage. So we're approaching a ratio somewhere around .290 with lots of TIEs. We obviously never get there as this ONLY works for TIEs within 1 distance of Howlrunner, so there is a theoretical limit.

I'm not really liking Howlrunner after looking at these numbers.

I didn't compute Howlrunner's effect. Wouldn't be that hard. It would be useful to know if there is a minimum swarm size to make her worth it.

On a slightly related note, the Interceptors and A-wings don't have counter-attack figured in as there is no clear way how to do it. I guess you could estimate how many attacks they might take before being killed and then throw that in.

Except you can't easily account for whether they'll engage say, a Rhymer ball, or a gaggle of Y-wings, and get to shred them all match long, or get nuked by a FC/Howl/Interceptor wombo combo. Best bet is to just to factor in the one Counter

(+Howl effect for squints) attack and then put an asterisk, saying YMMV.

Trying to factor in whether Squadrons get to shoot is pointless, because I've seen ships get deleted before they get a shot off numerous times as well. These numbers assume ideal situations, like having unobstructed LOS, and whatnot. And besides, assuming placement at command edge, every squadron actually gets the longest ranged attacks in the game. Medium is approximately D3, + speed 2-5, + D1= A full range ruler and half of close range worth of range on their attack, up to nearly half of long range. And most of the time, you can guarantee an Alpha strike with your squadrons, the problem then becomes making sure you get to do anything with them on the turns after.