According to pg 241 (The Chase text box), the pilots of both the chased and persuing vessel should make a Pilot check (to determine changes in relative position) at the beginning of the round before anyone takes their turn. Is this Pilot check assumed to be a Fly/Drive manauver for the pilot and thus counts as one of their maneuvers for the turn?

It happens at the beginning of the round, and is a Competitive Check, so it's basically outside of the normal structured play rules. You could consider it an out-of-turn action.

Further, as an aside, maneuvers performed outside of a character's turn to not count towards his two-maneuver-per-turn limit. The GM is called on to rule what is a reasonable amount of out-of-turn maneuvers for the situation at hand.

It happens at the beginning of the round, and is a Competitive Check, so it's basically outside of the normal structured play rules. You could consider it an out-of-turn action.

Further, as an aside, maneuvers performed outside of a character's turn to not count towards his two-maneuver-per-turn limit. The GM is called on to rule what is a reasonable amount of out-of-turn maneuvers for the situation at hand.

Okay, but what source are you using for that information? I don't recall seeing that explained anywhere.

Sources are tricky

1. The nature of Competitive Checks from EotE p. 25 (both parties are making a check) means that either 1) someone's performing an action during someone else's turn, or 2) the actions are happening outside of the turns, "at the beginning of the round." The second option is more simple. I choose to read "at the beginning of the round" as "before anyone takes a turn." So much easier that way. Make the checks, and the Successes, Advantages, and Triumphs are already all spoken for. Determine the winner, narrate the effects, get on with your bad self.

2. Out of turn maneuvers are discussed in EotE p. 200-201 (Maneuvers Outside a Character's Turn).

In any case, I don't see the check doing anything except determining relative positioning of the vehicles before everyone gets to take their turn. More importantly, it doesn't really take anything away from the encounter. It is simply used to move the chase along in an expeditious way.

Sources are tricky

1. The nature of Competitive Checks from EotE p. 25 (both parties are making a check) means that either 1) someone's performing an action during someone else's turn, or 2) the actions are happening outside of the turns, "at the beginning of the round." The second option is more simple. I choose to read "at the beginning of the round" as "before anyone takes a turn." So much easier that way. Make the checks, and the Successes, Advantages, and Triumphs are already all spoken for. Determine the winner, narrate the effects, get on with your bad self.

2. Out of turn maneuvers are discussed in EotE p. 200-201 (Maneuvers Outside a Character's Turn).

In any case, I don't see the check doing anything except determining relative positioning of the vehicles before everyone gets to take their turn. More importantly, it doesn't really take anything away from the encounter. It is simply used to move the chase along in an expeditious way.

Respectfully, sure. But I don't think this Competative Check is really a toss away action. It is, after all, part of the focus of the scene. Maintaining the vessel in the chase would require some measure of concentration. Even if they're just pouring on speed in a straight line, and the check is a Simple one, you'd have to focus to keep the vessel steady. This is especially so if moving through adverse terrain, where the check uses the terrain rules on page 240 to determine the difficulty of the Compentative Check.

Simply put? I'd say no.

Given that the second column says it's an action before anyone else. Then it goes on to suggest all the other maneuvers and actions the crew can do on their turn in the round. You may count it as a Fly/Drive, and I wouldn't protest as a player, but as a GM I wouldn't do it like that. Not counting it as one of the maneuvers for the round makes it simpler, and more fun!

Then of course there's away's arguments above.

And sure, the competitive check isn't a toss away action at all no, you're right, it is in fact so important it's done separately from the normal turn order to let it affect the chase, battle, encounter, everything, in a way that's extraordinary and full of potential and/for fun! It's a lot more heroic to chase through an asteroid field and gain the advantage (if the GM lets you, I would) so to provide your gunners an advantage of the chasing vehicles (or the one you're pursuing).

If I'm not mistaken, someone's house-ruling of the space combat system was basically to apply these chase rules to every round of combat, regardless of it being a chase or not (the argument being that any dogfight or space battle is really, deep down, a chase.)

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that the action is throwaway.

The only reason that I wouldn't be willing to rule whole-hog that a pilot must make a Fly/Drive maneuver on his turn during a chase is that there are other pilot-only maneuvers he can take at the expense of "gaining ground"...especially Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target.

But in some situations you could absolutely require that the pilot perform a certain maneuver. I did that in a Death Star trench run...ruled that, whatever else they did, the players had to perform the Stay on Target maneuver during their turn while they remained in the trench.

'Twas a fun time had by all.

The only reason that I wouldn't be willing to rule whole-hog that a pilot must make a Fly/Drive maneuver on his turn during a chase is that there are other pilot-only maneuvers he can take at the expense of "gaining ground"...especially Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target.

Edit: Which, after reading what you said again, I realize that's probably what you were thinking as well.

But wouldn't that be more effective if you counted the compitative check as their maneuver?

Depends on what you mean by "more effective."

If you're of the mind the game should be a Simulation, then yes. The maneuver counts toward the max count forcing the character to make more careful choices later in the round.

If you're of the mind the game is a Structured Representation of the dramatic action typically seen in the films and related media, then probably not. By having the Chase Check be a separate operation that doesn't count toward the characters Actions/Maneuver count you free up the character to perform more actions and maneuvers later, providing more opportunities for dramatic occurrences.

But wouldn't that be more effective if you counted the compitative check as their maneuver?

Depends on what you mean by "more effective."

If you're of the mind the game should be a Simulation, then yes. The maneuver counts toward the max count forcing the character to make more careful choices later in the round.

If you're of the mind the game is a Structured Representation of the dramatic action typically seen in the films and related media, then probably not. By having the Chase Check be a separate operation that doesn't count toward the characters Actions/Maneuver count you free up the character to perform more actions and maneuvers later, providing more opportunities for dramatic occurrences.

I disagree somewhat. I'm all that much concerned with simulation. I just think it heightens drama by making them feel they have to do more just to get away. It also encourages other players to pick up those maneuvers the pilot can't do (the non-pilot only actions, of course).

Let me put it another way: in similar fashion to what awaypturwpn mentioned earlier, say you're running a trench run. You're essentially racing (the enemy trying to close the distance to firing range). If you do NOT count the competitive check as a move/fly maneuver the pilot would be able to do that AND do evasive maneuvers AND stay on target (by stressing their ship, of course). That seems to contradict what we see in the movie (they had to fly a straight line to maintain weapons lock) and is (IMO) less dramatic.

Obviously it is dependent on the flavor you're going for. But I disagree that it would make for a less dramatic situation. Quite the opposite.