First, I come to say the HotAC is an excellent work.

I don't know if it helps, but I'm doing a project that might be compatible with this system.

Been forgetting to mention this, but thanks a lot for the "Nobody Home" mission. The whole team had loved using the very Rebel-style guerilla tactics against waves of TIEs bumping into each other- you should've see the crazy grins on our faces. Very much the perfect consolation prize for anyone who had trouble with "Capture Officer". Very good work as well with "Miners' Strike." We fell right into your trap and almost didn't finish the mission. Great work.

Also, here's another hilarious combo someone thought up: T-70 X-wing with "Red Ace" / Miranda Doni / Comm Relay. Will let you know how effective it is once I've had a chance to see him put it into action. On my end, an unhinged X-wing with engine upgrade, push the limit, and Sabine Wren's ability has been too much fun to quantify.

We went exclusively for objectives in "Miners' Strike" and ended up winning the mission with two defeated rebels, and not a single TIE off the board LOL.

My favorite build is a B-Wing with PTL / Rage / Keyan Farlander / Tycho Celchu with Hera as Crew. Do any maneuver you want, RAGE, then PTL to do something else. It's like Moldy Crow for Stress where you can get as many as 4 a round. It makes me sad to think I won't be able to get to PS 9 before the campaign ends to truly try it out. Oh well.

My current build is a Y-Wing with Predator, Nera Dantels, R2 Astromech, TLT, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips, 2x Proton Torpedoes and an extra shield (I'm at PS6 atm). The plan is to take Determination, Miranda and another shield as future upgrades.

Basically - "arc? what arc?"

Problem:

The TIE Interceptor never takes the Focus action.

We were playing the escort the HWK mission and the TIE/IN Ace came zipping around an asteroid, perfectly placing himself outside all the players' arcs and within range 1 of a player's X-Wing. When we checked the AI sequence, though, we found out it goes right past the boosting/barrel rolling to escape arcs and straight to Evade.

I mean, we had a blast playing it and ruled that he'd take the Focus instead of using the strict AI (to the detriment of the poor X-wing he caught in arc, who knew he'd flip 3 dice!), but it still seems like an AI flaw.

Problem:

The TIE Interceptor never takes the Focus action.

We were playing the escort the HWK mission and the TIE/IN Ace came zipping around an asteroid, perfectly placing himself outside all the players' arcs and within range 1 of a player's X-Wing. When we checked the AI sequence, though, we found out it goes right past the boosting/barrel rolling to escape arcs and straight to Evade.

I mean, we had a blast playing it and ruled that he'd take the Focus instead of using the strict AI (to the detriment of the poor X-wing he caught in arc, who knew he'd flip 3 dice!), but it still seems like an AI flaw.

Read the TIE Interceptor's AI card again. It actually gets a free focus action before it moves. After moving it will then complete its true action for the turn.

The TIE Interceptor never takes the Focus action.

The TIE Interceptor always gets a focus token before you do its maneuver. So it always has focus no matter what, even on a K-turn or a bump.

The TIE Interceptor never takes the Focus action.

The TIE Interceptor always gets a focus token before you do its maneuver. So it always has focus no matter what, even on a K-turn or a bump.

Unless it has a stress. AI can not preform an action while stressed. While they do not get one from maneuvers, they can still get a stress token from other means (debris,flechette weapons , etc...)

Naw, I just screwed up and didn't see the Focus line. My bad.

Right now I'm flying White Mage - HWK with TLT, Moldy Crow, Shield Upgrade, Recon Spec of course, with a Cloaking Device in my Illicit slot. For EPTs I picked up Roark's, and I'm aiming for Esege's ability next instead of Kyle Katarn's - that way I can pass out a LOT more Focus. Am I wrong, though, and I should get Kyle's for that extra Range 3 boost?

After that I'm going Jake Farell's so I get free boosts/barrel rolls in addition to my massive Focus token collection, and I think last I'm getting Miranda Donei's ability for defensive purposes, if we ever get that far.

The EPT the offensive people keep picking first for their first is Predator, and that makes sense to me and it's been what I've recommending. The extra offense against the massive TIE swarm is pretty helpful. I'm also really trying to convince one guy that the B-Wing is better off with the Sensor Jammer than an FCS - yes, you get more offense, but the B-Wing needs DEFENSE more.

Another thing we've noticed, two players picked T-70s as their new ship and they got Autothrusters... except Autothrusters isn't all that good. There's very little in the Imperial arsenal with a turret, and R3 is uncommon. I think they're better off with Integrated Astromech.

I'm thinking about starting up a second character and aiming for a B-Wing build using Hera Syndulla as crew, along with both Hera Syndulla's AND Tycho Celchu's ability - always keep it on the reds, move around to wherever I need to, and who cares about how much stress I build up because of Tycho and Hera crew?

Kanan Jarrus/Garvin in a HWK with Recon spec and Moldy Crow. Whenever an ally is attacked, 1 less die and the ally gets focus.

Kanan Jarrus/Garvin in a HWK with Recon spec and Moldy Crow. Whenever an ally is attacked, 1 less die and the ally gets focus.

You're a mad genius. And I'm sitting at PS5 with 6 XP and an empty slot for my 5 EPT... Hello, Kanan's EPT!

I've appended a zip that contains all of the ship cards currently in this thread in page format, 4 to a page except the K-Wing which only fits 2 to a page.

The included files are for A-Wing, B-Wing, E-Wing, K-Wing, X-Wing, T-70 X-Wing, Y-Wing, HWK-290, dual Z-95s, Kihrahz, and Starviper.

I hope that link works. If not I'll try to figure out how to upload them to the forum but I can't seem to figure it out. *sigh*

Okay, serious question, bolded and underlined for emphasis:

Other than fluff reasons is there any reason that players cannot start with any small base ship they want?

I say this because I want people to be playing their favorite ships to draw them in more easily and make them happier, and the fact that some ships are more/less powerful from the beginning has an easy balance point: Starting XP. The X-Wing is 'better' than the Y-Wing, so the X-Wing gets less starting XP. That's a place to start from.

So why not rewrite the starting XP list to match all the available ships and their comparative power levels, giving out more XP for the weakest ones (HWK) and less for the powerful ones (B-Wing, E-Wing, and so on) using the ship cards that people have created?

The same rule about not being able to swap ships until PS4 is still a good idea, as I'm thinking that the K-Wing, Starviper, and T-70 might start at 0 XP - and starting in a 'weaker' ship that has relevant upgrades and moving to a favored ship later on is good sense. In fact, I've been starting off ANY players who want non-standard ships at 0 XP, though I'd probably relax that for anyone who started an A-Wing or Kihrahz.

(Fluffwise I've been stating that the Aturi cluster is deep inside Empire-held space after Endor and we're an advance group sent to weaken their hold on its systems).

So which ships are strongest to weakest in terms of Actions, modifications, damage, and overall defense? My personal ranking is:

1) K-Wing

2) T-70 X-Wing

3) Starviper

4) E-Wing

5) B-Wing

6) Dual Z-95s

7) A-Wing

8) X-Wing

9) HWK-290

10) Y-Wing

Any dissenting thoughts? I haven't seen them all and hell, I've only been playing this campaign for a week so I'm not sure how they load out endgame or unbalance something early game.

I'd say you put the Z-95 WAY to high and Y-wing far too low. The Y-wing is awsome sauce in the campaign. Even with my group allowing YT's and T-70's, I stayed with my Y-wing all the way though (now maxed at PS9) Any ship can be good or bad depending on your load out. Bombs are SO much fun in the campaign. And putting Jake Farrell on a Y-wing gives it just as much reposition as any other ship (plus a focus for R5-P9).

It was stated by the creator that the E-wing was left out due to it being too powerful. After going though pretty much the entire campaign (we are just playing every mission, no campaign vicroty points) I think he was correct. The E-wing is a very powerful ship. The thing that causes a problem in regular games is the cost, not it's stats/abilities.

I'd say you put the Z-95 WAY to high and Y-wing far too low. The Y-wing is awsome sauce in the campaign. Even with my group allowing YT's and T-70's, I stayed with my Y-wing all the way though (now maxed at PS9) Any ship can be good or bad depending on your load out. Bombs are SO much fun in the campaign. And putting Jake Farrell on a Y-wing gives it just as much reposition as any other ship (plus a focus for R5-P9).

It was stated by the creator that the E-wing was left out due to it being too powerful. After going though pretty much the entire campaign (we are just playing every mission, no campaign vicroty points) I think he was correct. The E-wing is a very powerful ship. The thing that causes a problem in regular games is the cost, not it's stats/abilities.

I think you are underestimating the value of having 2 ships under your control, even if they are Z95s.

When I run, I let the pplayers use any low tier ship at start (XYABHwkDbZAtS, as well as scum DbZ,Y, Khz, Sck, Hwk, G1A- if we ran imperials the list would be DbLN, T(b), T(i), T(a), and Shuttle)

However, I also let Nightmare Mode creep into the game based on average PS, and let players upgrade to high tier ships (T70, Ewing, Kwing, YTs, Starviper, Aggressor (no title), Firespray, YV666, Triple LN, DbFO, DbAp, Tie Defender (no title), Tie Phantom) at PS6

Other than fluff reasons is there any reason that players cannot start with any small base ship they want?

I say this because I want people to be playing their favorite ships to draw them in more easily and make them happier, and the fact that some ships are more/less powerful from the beginning has an easy balance point: Starting XP. The X-Wing is 'better' than the Y-Wing, so the X-Wing gets less starting XP. That's a place to start from.

So why not rewrite the starting XP list to match all the available ships and their comparative power levels, giving out more XP for the weakest ones (HWK) and less for the powerful ones (B-Wing, E-Wing, and so on) using the ship cards that people have created?

I don't think that would be a huge problem. The E-wing and K-wing are too strong without some rules mods, but there are a few ways you could address that.

The Y-wing and X-wing start at 26 points each, so by that logic most ships would be OK if you followed the same principle. That is:

B-wing: Start with 3 XP

A-wing: Start with 8 XP

HWK-290: Start with 10 XP

Some other ships probably wouldn't be an issue, either. Khirazx starting with 6 XP, or G1-A starting with 4 XP would probably be fine. A Starviper with 0 XP would also probably be OK.

The T-70 X-wing, starting with 2 XP, would also probably be fine in terms of balance; my issue with it is that it's strictly superior to the T-65. While other ships require you to trade off some of the things the X-wing can do, the T-70 does everything better. I'd go so far as to say you might as well ditch the T-65 altogether if you're allowing the T-70.

E-wings, K-wings and other powerful ships (maybe including the Starviper) are a bigger problem. I suspect that you could largely fix it by doubling the XP cost of all upgrades for those ships would work. Another possibility would be to replace some of the EPT and Modifications slots for high PS on those ships with their regular upgrade slots (so you can't fully kit out a "basic" ship until you're at a high PS, and you'll always have fewer EPT/mod slots than a weaker ship).

I believe that the limited starting ships are more about flavour than balance anyway.

I'd say you put the Z-95 WAY to high and Y-wing far too low. The Y-wing is awsome sauce in the campaign. Even with my group allowing YT's and T-70's, I stayed with my Y-wing all the way though (now maxed at PS9) Any ship can be good or bad depending on your load out. Bombs are SO much fun in the campaign. And putting Jake Farrell on a Y-wing gives it just as much reposition as any other ship (plus a focus for R5-P9).

It was stated by the creator that the E-wing was left out due to it being too powerful. After going though pretty much the entire campaign (we are just playing every mission, no campaign vicroty points) I think he was correct. The E-wing is a very powerful ship. The thing that causes a problem in regular games is the cost, not it's stats/abilities.

Anything can be balanced properly. If the E-Wing is stronger than other options, it needs to lose some upgrade slots to balance that out - same deal with the K-Wing.

And frankly, if I hadn't already made my mind up to move to the HWK and become White Mage, I would have stuck with a Y-Wing too. Not only is it thematic (and my ship from the WEG SW RPG), but it IS strong with the proper kit and PT options.

But is that a function of the ship itself, with its combined slot options, defensive options, and offensive ability?

And I think you're underestimating the dual-Z's. Not only is it more ships in the furball without raising the enemy count, but each one can be raised separately, meaning you can keep one as a low-PS blocker and level the other, or keep them even and go wild with a bunch of different EPTs. I'd say that the two of them are about equal to a 3-attack, 3-evade, 8 HP ship that has a 180-degree field of fire.

I don't think that would be a huge problem. The E-wing and K-wing are too strong without some rules mods, but there are a few ways you could address that.

The Y-wing and X-wing start at 26 points each, so by that logic most ships would be OK if you followed the same principle. That is:

B-wing: Start with 3 XP

A-wing: Start with 8 XP

HWK-290: Start with 10 XP

Some other ships probably wouldn't be an issue, either. Khirazx starting with 6 XP, or G1-A starting with 4 XP would probably be fine. A Starviper with 0 XP would also probably be OK.

The T-70 X-wing, starting with 2 XP, would also probably be fine in terms of balance; my issue with it is that it's strictly superior to the T-65. While other ships require you to trade off some of the things the X-wing can do, the T-70 does everything better. I'd go so far as to say you might as well ditch the T-65 altogether if you're allowing the T-70.

E-wings, K-wings and other powerful ships (maybe including the Starviper) are a bigger problem. I suspect that you could largely fix it by doubling the XP cost of all upgrades for those ships would work. Another possibility would be to replace some of the EPT and Modifications slots for high PS on those ships with their regular upgrade slots (so you can't fully kit out a "basic" ship until you're at a high PS, and you'll always have fewer EPT/mod slots than a weaker ship).

I believe that the limited starting ships are more about flavour than balance anyway.

I hadn't even REALIZED that it's 26 points total. Brain blank there.

But we all agree that the E-Wing at 27 points for a Knave is overpriced, with MJuggler's numbers pointing that it should be what, 25? Starting them with 0 XP seems OK; their stats aren't THAT much better than the other ships and the A-Wing still has a niche for allowing an extra EPT.

The K-Wing is another matter, though. It isn't any GOOD without an upgrade or two, so giving them like 3 XP for a cheap missile or turret seems reasonable - but it's the late game which worries me.. I hate picking on them, but it seems like the sheer number of slots available should reduce their EPTs and Mod Slots by 1 - but which EPT should be lost? I don't want to kill the PS3 EPT because it's possible someone might level up to get the K-Wing, I don't want to kill the PS9 EPT because that would limit top-end builds... so removing the PS5 EPT means that choosing a K-Wing requires CAREFUL planning and forethought.

The T-70's in much the same boat. From a balance perspective, there HAS to be a reason that the X-Wing is worth choosing over its newer brother - and perhaps the same solution as the K-Wing, killing the PS5 EPT, would cover that. Rules-wise I'd say that if you switch over to a K or T-70 and have a PS5 EPT, you lose it until you reach the next PS that gives an EPT slot.

Not that switching ships around is a good thing to do a lot of anyway, with its prohibitive XP penalty.

I see nothing wrong with a single z95 with 14pts to spend to start. Should get the elicit slot as does the hwk. Lets you bank some points for later and makes more upgrade sense if you want an a wing anyways (not that I think A Wings are too much to start with). Elicit points would be wasted unless you went to HWK or kept the Z though. I did play one like this in a few games and it wasn't that bad, you do rely on the other players to help out a tad but with something like hot shot or glitter it does some damage the first pass usually.

A PTL K wing with boost and ASlam would be a LOT too powerful I think, if you wanted those or Ewings I think you would need to limit their upgrade choices.

What I really like about the way this game works is how YWings are actually good. Bombs just work so well against the AI and are still relatively cheap. I know a lot of people who love Y's but hate being relegated to flying them with TLT's.

Ddog already mentioned it but I really don't see a problem with just giving a new player 26 pts for a ship and upgrades, provided the OP combos (K and E Wing) get limited somehow. I like to leave large base ships out completely but even those would be fine with some mods (like counting them as two ships for difficulty). Only ship I don't know about would be the attack shuttle as there is no generic pilot to get a point basis from.

Finished an 8 week campaign using this game. Absolutely fantastic! Everything worked like intended: no glitches or hiccups. You guys did a first rate job all the way through! The missions were tough but beatable IF you worked together.

The second best part of the game was watching some of the younger players getting their butts handed to them because they have no sense of cooperation! Our team of old farts, youngest was 43, was the only one to beat the mission with the comm relay. Only four pilots with one PS-5, the rest 2s and 3s. We earned some bragging rights that night.

Thanks again for producing a great game!

A PS2 Attack Shuttle would be ~17 points. It seems like it might be a little too good compared to the HWK but fills a similar role.

As for the "too powerful" ships, I like the idea of taking away an EPT slot. Another possibility is to take a cue from the Chardaan Refit and Heavy Scyk upgrades, and let the ships buy negative point upgrades to remove slots; -2 points per slot sounds fair. You'd have to buy off the negative upgrades with XP before you could equip them.

The T-70 X-wing, starting with 2 XP, would also probably be fine in terms of balance; my issue with it is that it's strictly superior to the T-65. While other ships require you to trade off some of the things the X-wing can do, the T-70 does everything better. I'd go so far as to say you might as well ditch the T-65 altogether if you're allowing the T-70

Most of the deficiencies of the X-Wing are addressed by the HotAC game itself with modifications and such. I don't even see the point of including the T-70 at all. You pay 5XP and get 8XP worth of upgrades for free, the Tech slot, and an upgrade to the movement dial, and you get two modification slots back (Shield Upgrade and Engine Upgrade).

Like you said, there's literally no trade-off like with the other ships, so it just becomes a power gamer move, a cheat-code if you will. Which sorta defeats the purpose of playing a cooperative game against a scripted opponent if you're just looking for ways to game a system that is already letting the players "cheat" by design, lol. If people are using the T-70, they should be paying at least 10-15 XP for that right, if not more.

To that extent, because generationally (in terms of Wave Releases) the ships aren't equal, they can't just be measured by the 26 Point scale. The E-Wing has a dial only beaten by the A-Wing, and X-Wing survivability with its droid slot. It's absolutely not overcosted in HotAC, even if it is mediocre on the regular tabletop game. 3 attack dice, 3 defense dice, 5 Greens for R2D2, Evade, Barrel Roll, and a System slot plus all the same Mod and EPT slots as an X-Wing? Again, people have been suggesting paying 5 Points to upgrade to get all of that. Like the T-70, it's an "X-Wing Plus" with zero tradeoff. You just get way better, instantly.

The math gets really complicated trying to use non-OT ships for player characters. Mostly because later-Wave ships are simply better. They have Upgrade types that didn't even exist when the original four ships were released. And the E-Wing's primary problem is internal balance (it just isn't worth its price on a 100 point max build system), not its external balance (it's just way better than an X or an A-Wing and should cost more). The T-70 is the same way.

The balance internal to the "advanced" ships in HotAC is that there's a trade-off. Yeah, the A-Wing is fun as heck to fly with the right combination of pilot skills and modifications, but it's fragile. You have 5-7 (approximately) total damage you can soak, and then you are done. The B-Wing is the same way. You've got a ton of firepower compared to everyone else, but you can take 8-10 damage and then you're done because the Regen Upgrades are droids, and a few high-priced skills.

Trying to balance the "Just be a way better X-Wing" ships on the same "+5 points" scale won't work. There is zero reason to be an X-Wing or A-Wing, and very few reasons to be a B-Wing in a game system that has T-70s and E-Wings at +5 points.

You should just reconfigure your power list.

E-Wing

T-70

Y-Wing

B-Wing

No, that's it. No other ships exist on this list.

Unless you're massively altering the way the missions are configured for Difficulty Level, allowing players to use higher tier ships is basically setting the game to Easy Mode. A PS6 player with an E-Wing is going to wreck shop, since he likely has Boost, Barrel Roll, Evade, 5 Shields and 2 Hull, Regen, a System, and two Elite skills/talents (swap a shield for Autothrusters by preference). His X-Wing buddy with the same card selection has Boost, Regen and 3 Hull/4 Shields and 2 Elites. It's not even comparable, lol.

Unless you're massively altering the way the missions are configured for Difficulty Level, allowing players to use higher tier ships is basically setting the game to Easy Mode. A PS6 player with an E-Wing is going to wreck shop, since he likely has Boost, Barrel Roll, Evade, 5 Shields and 2 Hull, Regen, a System, and two Elite skills/talents (swap a shield for Autothrusters by preference). His X-Wing buddy with the same card selection has Boost, Regen and 3 Hull/4 Shields and 2 Elites. It's not even comparable, lol.

Which is what I do.

At PS9, Decimaters become Raiders, Shuttles become Decimaters (See Raider AI posted earlier)

At PS8, All tie fighters upgrade to Tie FOs with comm relay (see Tie FO AI posted earlier)

At PS7, All Intercepters become elite

At PS6, All Bombers become Tie Punishers with EM and Sensor Jammer (See Tie Punisher AI posted earlier)

At PS5, Any squad of 3 tie fighters is replaced with 2 FOs.

I never thought about the T70 that way, now I can agree it's a little too good for what you pay.

I do like that it is possible to adjust difficulty of the campaign if you want though, T70's are fine if all the players have them and you dial up the difficulty a bit.

I still think K's and E's are too much though. KWing with PTL Miranda talent, EU and Sabine would just be a mess. At a certain point it loses the fun if everyone is OP and the AI can't adjust enough.

Does Spinn Print also print the stickers for the obstacles and other tokens? Did anyone have luck with Spinn getting them to print in booklet mode?

Thanks!

Looking forward to starting this!

It really is the most fun way to play XWing IMO. Which makes it really surprising that FFG hasn't done something similar.

I've been having a grand ol' time with the campaign so far.

I'm sure it's been addressed before, but I can't find it in the thread; has anyone done any theorycrafting around how to use a huge ship as a 'base of operations'? I always think back to Star Fox 64's infamous "Sector Z" stage, which had your ships as well as your mobile home base (the Great Fox) under attack. I thought it was really neat, and I've always imagined that having a CR90 or even a 'stolen' Gozanti Cruiser as a home-base for the squadron would be really thematic and interesting... though the balance quickly scares me away from even attempting any sorts of rules for it.

By the way - here's a tiny gallery of the fun we've had with the game. Thanks a billion to the creators!

"Cutter" in the HWK flies to safety, leaving "Harbinger" to die.

Viper Squadron escapes with the TIE/FO (instead of TIE/D) Defeector.

It was a VERY close escape.

"Watch it, Viper 2! Friendly fire!"

Action shot during the 'defend transport' mission. We fly in formation so well.

...until the Decimator shows up!

Cutter's HWK stalls out and gets, well... decimated. The rest of Viper Squadron flees. The transport is lost.

Final mission, "Revenge." Cutter dies so much we joke that his ship explodes, warning us to the Ace ambush.

"Sithspit, these guys are good." The Interceptor Aces literally barrel roll between us, dodging every shot we can throw at them.

"The Wolf," the red interceptor, unloads on Backdoor (the B-Wing.) Backdoor ejects, but the ship is lost. In the end, we make it out, and the short campaign is a success.