Jumping in with the sorta derail on ESB being best. I think most people say it's the best of the Orginal Trillogy for different reasons but subconsciously it's because the bad guys straight up win. Unlike most movies, ESB actually shows evil triumph over good. Rebels are soundly defeated on Hoth. Lando betrays them to the Empire. Han is tortured, flash frozen and zipped off to Jabba. Luke loses his hand and finds his daddy. And to top it off, 3PO is blasted(which may or may not be a bad thing depending on how much you like him) and Lando jacks Han's clothes.

Lando gets a bad rep in this movie. He betrayed Han, but it was either sell out one guy and his pals, or doom his entire city to Imperial control. As soon as he found out Vader was leaving troops in the city anyway and he had been lied to, he immediately went to the aid of Leia and Chewie. Lando's a good guy who can put the needs of a whole city over the needs of a few main characters.

Just like Han said, he's a real hero.

But in all honesty, I think that most of us would have done the same. It's easy to judge when you're only a spectator. And the deal got worst all the time. If anything, he was just naive to trust Vader at his words. The gambler got played.

Not sure he was naive, either. Like Lando said, "I had no choice", which interestingly enough is the same excuse Han used in A New Hope multiple times "Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?"

Just like Han, Lando prefers to be on the outside of the civil war, earning his fortune and keeping a semi-low profile. He gets drawn into the conflict by association, and tries to make due the best he can with the hand he is dealt. Unlike Boba, who falls into the same category, Lando and Han both warm to the benefits of being inter-dependent and having friends to watch your back. As a result, they end up heroes and alive, and Boba ends up at the bottom of the Dune Sea. #starwarsmorals...

It should also be noted that Lando gave Han every chance he could to turn back: Having the twin cars fire some pot shots across his bow, no one to greet them on the landing platform...

Not sure he was naive, either. Like Lando said, "I had no choice", which interestingly enough is the same excuse Han used in A New Hope multiple times "Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?"

Just like Han, Lando prefers to be on the outside of the civil war, earning his fortune and keeping a semi-low profile. He gets drawn into the conflict by association, and tries to make due the best he can with the hand he is dealt. Unlike Boba, who falls into the same category, Lando and Han both warm to the benefits of being inter-dependent and having friends to watch your back. As a result, they end up heroes and alive, and Boba ends up at the bottom of the Dune Sea. #starwarsmorals...

He believed he had no choice because he thought that Vader would have kept his word of leaving Bespin alone afterward. The deal at first was to hand Han to the Empire/Boba Fett and keep his friends on Bespin long enough to lure Luke. Then the Empire would leave Bespin with only Luke. Then the deal got altered over and over again.

If Vader would have kept his word from the start, I'm pretty sure Lando would have not change side and just let things go... and continue to live with the remorse to have cheated a friend. Because as soon as the deal got altered, he felt remorse. When he said that he had no choice, he was also trying to convince himself.

Jumping in with the sorta derail on ESB being best. I think most people say it's the best of the Orginal Trillogy for different reasons but subconsciously it's because the bad guys straight up win. Unlike most movies, ESB actually shows evil triumph over good. Rebels are soundly defeated on Hoth. Lando betrays them to the Empire. Han is tortured, flash frozen and zipped off to Jabba. Luke loses his hand and finds his daddy. And to top it off, 3PO is blasted(which may or may not be a bad thing depending on how much you like him) and Lando jacks Han's clothes.

Lando gets a bad rep in this movie. He betrayed Han, but it was either sell out one guy and his pals, or doom his entire city to Imperial control. As soon as he found out Vader was leaving troops in the city anyway and he had been lied to, he immediately went to the aid of Leia and Chewie. Lando's a good guy who can put the needs of a whole city over the needs of a few main characters.

Oh, come on. Lando was acting out of self-preservation, not trying to help the rest of Cloud City. He WAS a good guy, at least so far as Han was a good guy (scoundrel and all), but he wasn't a martyr. What's the problem with Vader leaving a garrison on cloud city? (Which he didn't do even after Lando freed the captives and ran away) The 'evilness' of the empire was never fully demonstrated, only the evilness of Vader, who kills his own people more than he kills any rebels in the movies, and the emperor. The average stormtrooper/commander wasn't 'EVIL'...

*cough*Alderaan*cough*

Not sure he was naive, either. Like Lando said, "I had no choice", which interestingly enough is the same excuse Han used in A New Hope multiple times "Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?"

Just like Han, Lando prefers to be on the outside of the civil war, earning his fortune and keeping a semi-low profile. He gets drawn into the conflict by association, and tries to make due the best he can with the hand he is dealt. Unlike Boba, who falls into the same category, Lando and Han both warm to the benefits of being inter-dependent and having friends to watch your back. As a result, they end up heroes and alive, and Boba ends up at the bottom of the Dune Sea. #starwarsmorals...

He believed he had no choice because he thought that Vader would have kept his word of leaving Bespin alone afterward. The deal at first was to hand Han to the Empire/Boba Fett and keep his friends on Bespin long enough to lure Luke. Then the Empire would leave Bespin with only Luke. Then the deal got altered over and over again.

If Vader would have kept his word from the start, I'm pretty sure Lando would have not change side and just let things go... and continue to live with the remorse to have cheated a friend. Because as soon as the deal got altered, he felt remorse. When he said that he had no choice, he was also trying to convince himself.

Perhaps, but I always read it as "the empire, including darth fricking vader are here, what do you think would happen to ME if I said 'no'?"

Vader would have killed lando.

Not sure he was naive, either. Like Lando said, "I had no choice", which interestingly enough is the same excuse Han used in A New Hope multiple times "Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?"

Just like Han, Lando prefers to be on the outside of the civil war, earning his fortune and keeping a semi-low profile. He gets drawn into the conflict by association, and tries to make due the best he can with the hand he is dealt. Unlike Boba, who falls into the same category, Lando and Han both warm to the benefits of being inter-dependent and having friends to watch your back. As a result, they end up heroes and alive, and Boba ends up at the bottom of the Dune Sea. #starwarsmorals...

He believed he had no choice because he thought that Vader would have kept his word of leaving Bespin alone afterward. The deal at first was to hand Han to the Empire/Boba Fett and keep his friends on Bespin long enough to lure Luke. Then the Empire would leave Bespin with only Luke. Then the deal got altered over and over again.

If Vader would have kept his word from the start, I'm pretty sure Lando would have not change side and just let things go... and continue to live with the remorse to have cheated a friend. Because as soon as the deal got altered, he felt remorse. When he said that he had no choice, he was also trying to convince himself.

Perhaps, but I always read it as "the empire, including darth fricking vader are here, what do you think would happen to ME if I said 'no'?"

Vader would have killed lando.

Of course, when it's the dark Lord himself that is making the deal, you are more inclined to say yes, no matter what the deal is.

ESB was the best at everything. Little to no cheese, greatly strengthened the plot and the characters, and most importantly it made the bad guys really, really bad and scary.

Correct.

Take note, Mr Abrams. If I hear a Jawa fart, or see a droid slip up on an oil patch, I'm out of the cinema.

Unlike most movies, ESB actually shows evil triumph over good. Rebels are soundly defeated on Hoth. Lando betrays them to the Empire.

The rebels are defeated on Hoth in the same way that George Washington's rebel army was defeated by the British in the Battle of Long Island - they got a good kicking, but managed to escape total destruction and slip away to fight another day.

I suspect Lando's betrayal of Han also has its parallel in the American Revolution, in the betrayal of the rebel cause by Benedict Arnold, Washington's protogee. This was an extraordinarily traumatic event for the American rebels, which has echoed down the ages to the present day - Arnold is still a 'bogeyman' in American popular culture. In Lando's case, of course, he redeems himself by double-crossing the Empire - perhaps a psychologist might read something into this plot twist?

The derailment is strong in this thread.

Maybe we should try get it on track. What I perceive is that there are 3 routes Imperial Assault could take in regards to what expansions get released.

1. Is the movie after movie expansion story after events, hoth after hoth, yavin after yavin, twinsuns after um well something like that.
2. The other is to pander to the Dead EU fans, have some expansions that tie in with the Jedi Knight Video games and introduce figures like Kyle Katern, Starkiller and Mara Jade.
3. The Last is to go the Canonverse way and have expansions that tie in with things like Starwars Rebels and have figures like Sabine Wren and the Inquisitor from the show and feature a small rebel cell group. Else working in an expansion around the up coming Star Wars Rogue one stuff.

Basically I doubt we will see a completely stand alone expansion as this is Starwars and having ties to cinematic experience helps immensely in the storytelling.

Killjoy =p

Anyway. Was the 1st person shooter all those years ago Dark Forces? With the Dark Troopers? How can FFG pass that up? It'd be perfect for a campaign on its own. I believe it actually takes place before Yavin as I'm almost sure one of the early missions had you stealing the plans for the Death Star, leading into Episode IV.

Killjoy =p

Anyway. Was the 1st person shooter all those years ago Dark Forces? With the Dark Troopers? How can FFG pass that up? It'd be perfect for a campaign on its own. I believe it actually takes place before Yavin as I'm almost sure one of the early missions had you stealing the plans for the Death Star, leading into Episode IV.

The intro level for Dark Forces 1 was stealing the DS plans. The rest of the game jumped ahead in time a bit and took place after Yavin (I think).

Jumping in with the sorta derail on ESB being best. I think most people say it's the best of the Orginal Trillogy for different reasons but subconsciously it's because the bad guys straight up win. Unlike most movies, ESB actually shows evil triumph over good. Rebels are soundly defeated on Hoth. Lando betrays them to the Empire. Han is tortured, flash frozen and zipped off to Jabba. Luke loses his hand and finds his daddy. And to top it off, 3PO is blasted(which may or may not be a bad thing depending on how much you like him) and Lando jacks Han's clothes.

Lando gets a bad rep in this movie. He betrayed Han, but it was either sell out one guy and his pals, or doom his entire city to Imperial control. As soon as he found out Vader was leaving troops in the city anyway and he had been lied to, he immediately went to the aid of Leia and Chewie. Lando's a good guy who can put the needs of a whole city over the needs of a few main characters.

Oh, come on. Lando was acting out of self-preservation, not trying to help the rest of Cloud City. He WAS a good guy, at least so far as Han was a good guy (scoundrel and all), but he wasn't a martyr. What's the problem with Vader leaving a garrison on cloud city? (Which he didn't do even after Lando freed the captives and ran away) The 'evilness' of the empire was never fully demonstrated, only the evilness of Vader, who kills his own people more than he kills any rebels in the movies, and the emperor. The average stormtrooper/commander wasn't 'EVIL'...

*cough*Alderaan*cough*

Don't give us the empire is evil business. Everyone knows the real reason that Alderaan was destroyed was because it was infested with sentient killiks:

I mean can you imagine letting those things continue to run around?! Game over man! Game over!

I like to think of Empire through the middle of ROTJ, let's say somewhere around the time Luke leaves Endor with Vader, as one great incredible, Star Wars at its best, movie.

Then the Ewoks win the entire freakin' war for the Alliance...

I kind of like the way Fett dies. My frustration with his character is they never really used him in two movies, not the way they offed him.

If it wasn't for the ground battle on Endor I would like all of ROTJ nearly as much as Empire.