In approximately thirty years of tabletop rpg experience, I have never actually run a heist game.

Played in more than a few, but never designed or ran one.

I may be starting to, now, however.

The concept I have in mind is to give my players a month to plan.

Four weeks before we play each player chooses one skill that they can justify as part of the initial information-gathering stage. I am not sure if I will combine the results or not.

The players will roll the ability, proficiency and any boost dice openly and I will roll difficulty, challenge and any setback dice in secret. They players will only have a sense of the final results but not the full outcome.

Depending on that outcome, they will be given one of three packets:

1.) The failure packet will contain enough useful information that planning a successful heist will be possible, but the amount of gaps, out of date intel and misinformation will make it difficult.

2.) The success packet will be enough basic information to plan a heist. The players still have to plan well but the deck won't be stacked against them.

3.) The awesome packet will contain basic information as well as a few perks mixed in if the players can identify them and exploit them. It still won't be a cake walk.

During the month until game day, the players can review the data, plan and even make additional rolls to explore options, investigate leads and so on. Missteps during this phase can have consequences.

Come game day they enact the plan.

All that leads to this:

Do those of you who have run heist games have any ideas or tips they would be so kind as to share?

Currently my research will largely consist of cherry-picking through episodes of "Leverage".

The benefit for me being a member of this community for so long, I sometimes remember repeat topics. This thread might give you some good ideas.

Having reviewed the previous thread Kaosoe linked to make sure I'm not about to repeat something...

First off, I like the idea of the packets you mentioned. As one of my players accuses me of loving the "Arts and Crafts" side of RPGs, part of me says there should be real manila envelopes with the strings that tie the flaps down and a big red "CONFIDENTIAL" stamped or stenciled on it, but I digress.

I feel the key to a heist game is to keep it tight. Keep everyone's focus tight, keep the tension high. If you are at a physical table, I would lower the lights in the room and have one bright light in the middle of the table. With as much prep work as you are talking about doing, i would make sure you have a nice big "blueprint" to lay out on the table and have some tokens for the players, any security, and the ubiquitous innocent bystanders. Depending on how comfortable you are with multitasking, keep the tokens shuffling. If you have a good internal clock, or can keep a clock in view, every minute or two, move people around.

Next up, on the subject of the bystanders, have a couple with personalities ready. Someone will always want to play the hero, someone will be trying to call their sick momma/child/honeybunny, someone always needs some kind of medical treatment in a timely fashion. Keep it organic, and don't over use it, but I think the two best times to play this card are when things are going really well for the players, or as a twist of the knife when things go bad.

Now, I have never used this, but one of my favorite monkey wrenches I have seen in a heist movie is to have another group coming in to try and pull a heist of their own. If you use this, create some kind of dark and twisted reflection of the PCs. Using the Leverage crew as an example, Hardison gets thrown up against Wil Wheaton, Parker versus her mentor, etc...

Last but not least, it's important to have some memorable security chief or law enforcement if this heist starts to turn into a hostage situation. Think a John McClain from the first Die Hard, or any of the police and FBI from Boondock Saints. When the hostage negotiation/smack talking banter goes on, if you are using the blueprint and tokens idea, be sure to keep the bystanders milling while this is going on to keep the tension high for your players, plant the thought in the back of their heads that they are going to need to split their focus.

As an entertaining side note, if you are really feeling like you ate your wheaties, Have the security chief or law enforcement be the other team trying to pull the heist out from under you. Give them a full on Kansas City Shuffle. if you aren't familiar with a Kansas City Shuffle, it's a Con within a Con. The idea is for the mark to spot the first layer of con, and their reaction to the fake out con actually gives an advantage on the real con. To be fair, this is one of the most difficult kinds of cons because the lynch pin is for the players to spot "a" con, but not "the" con. I've only pulled of a kansas city shuffle once in 20 years of running games, but it was a -glorious- thing. Fair warning: if the players look left and fall right into it, you may have to run a follow up where the players get to dish out some payback for being duped and losing the prize.

If you are looking for episodes of leverage to cherry pick, the one episode I would recommend above almost any others is "The Hot Potato Job" (Season 4, episode 5 if you are looking for it). It's a good one, IMHO, because the heist has to happen in a facility on lockdown.

Hope this helps, and enjoy the life of crime!

First off, I like the idea of the packets you mentioned. As one of my players accuses me of loving the "Arts and Crafts" side of RPGs, part of me says there should be real manila envelopes with the strings that tie the flaps down and a big red "CONFIDENTIAL" stamped or stenciled on it, but I digress.

Thank you and of COURSE they will be delivered in in manila envelopes, possibly even in a briefcase a'la "The Usual Suspects".

I am an "arts and crafts" gamer, as well.

I feel the key to a heist game is to keep it tight. Keep everyone's focus tight, keep the tension high. If you are at a physical table, I would lower the lights in the room and have one bright light in the middle of the table. With as much prep work as you are talking about doing, i would make sure you have a nice big "blueprint" to lay out on the table and have some tokens for the players, any security, and the ubiquitous innocent bystanders. Depending on how comfortable you are with multitasking, keep the tokens shuffling. If you have a good internal clock, or can keep a clock in view, every minute or two, move people around.

The blue prints are in the works but the lighting and shuffling of bystanders didn't. Great ideas.

I already plan on using a timer for (some) turns. Not because my players dilly-dally (much) but just to amp up the tension. I am toying with the idea of a 1:5 ratio for IC time to OoC time. I.e.: A ten second timer in the game gives the players 50 seconds to think and re/act.

Now, I have never used this, but one of my favorite monkey wrenches I have seen in a heist movie is to have another group coming in to try and pull a heist of their own. If you use this, create some kind of dark and twisted reflection of the PCs. Using the Leverage crew as an example, Hardison gets thrown up against Wil Wheaton, Parker versus her mentor, etc...

This occurred to me, as well, but I have decided to save it for another outing when the PCs are feeling cocky.

Last but not least, it's important to have some memorable security chief or law enforcement if this heist starts to turn into a hostage situation. Think a John McClain from the first Die Hard, or any of the police and FBI from Boondock Saints. When the hostage negotiation/smack talking banter goes on, if you are using the blueprint and tokens idea, be sure to keep the bystanders milling while this is going on to keep the tension high for your players, plant the thought in the back of their heads that they are going to need to split their focus.

Returning to "Leverage", I already have a Jim Sterling-inspired Imperial in the works.

If you are looking for episodes of leverage to cherry pick, the one episode I would recommend above almost any others is "The Hot Potato Job" (Season 4, episode 5 if you are looking for it). It's a good one, IMHO, because the heist has to happen in a facility on lockdown.

I remember that one! Good thinking.

Thank you for your insight,

I like the idea of the 1:5 ratio for IC to OOC time, and possibly give players a limited number of "Timeouts" just in case they really get stumped but not enough that it removes the pressure of the time constraint. Probably just one or two.

Anyway, glad I could help!

It's very late, and I am on my phone so this will be brief.

Consider introducing pathways which seem promising but rely on skills the party lacks. Then, introduce an NPC for hire with those skills. It gives them a few options... Hire them and take advantage of the situation and pay out of their earnings? Not pay and risk an enemy? Or press their luck? Or just keep on the path they feel safe in without the help?

Maybe the NPCs is better or worse skilled based on the preparations and the results of the dice during that phase? Or just based on their pay? But that last one seems boring.

Also, I'm curious what the job is, the stakes, and they payday.

And, can I just say how much I like the idea of a blueprint with moving tokens for bystanders and opposition and manilla envelopes... Man, if I wasn't so lazy... Ha! And I have two art degrees!

I watched italian job. Apparently your supposed to put spiderman randomly into a cutscene for 2 frames or so

Also, I'm curious what the job is, the stakes, and they payday.

Undecided.

It didn't come up organically but rather directly from my desire to run a heist so I am still reviewing my options.

You’ve read “Jewel of Yavin”, right?

You’ve read “Jewel of Yavin”, right?

I have been through it as a player... as have most of the group.

I don't want to crib from it too much if I can avoid it.

You’ve read “Jewel of Yavin”, right?

I have been through it as a player... as have most of the group.

I don't want to crib from it too much if I can avoid it.

I just wanted to make sure you knew about it and some of the concepts it brings to the table. That’s all.

I've run - and played in - a number of heists. My advice is less about actual game mechanics and more about GMing in general:

1) Make sure there's something for everyone to do. Especially try to make sure there's something for everyone to do at the end. By the way, I love LEVERAGE (and HUSTLE is even better), but don't rely on the TV model too much. Because it's episodic, it's okay for their to be an episode where Parker and Hardison pretty much sit around and chit-chat while the others have fun. That's not okay for a gaming session.

2) Player planning is a delicate balance. If they plan successfully, and things go well, there will be very little tension in the session. If they plan successfully and things go poorly, they will feel like they wasted their time.

3) Don't overcomplicate things. Heists in the movies and TV are full of tons of twists and turns, but they rely on the fact that the creative author controls the reactions of all parties. You don't have that luxury.

Personally, I like the Ocean's 11 model:

a. Lay out the objective

b. Lay out the number of obstacles

c. Let the players determine how to pass each obstacle.

I've found that four a session with 4 players (my usual group size), 3-5 is enough to give you a nice mix of events that go to plan with no problems, events that have unforeseen issues, and events that rely on the actions (and die rolls) of the players day-of.

You want to give each player at least one moment to shine... but it's also fun to have the wrong player in the wrong place.