If weaponizing hyperdrive was possible, why didn't the Empire already do it? The Emperor loves his superweapons and he certainly wouldn't be as concerned as the rebels when it comes to things like fallout and collateral damage. When Vader arrived at Hoth and saw that the energy field was up, why didn't he order a shuttle to just crash into it? And this would have made the Death Star even more unnecessary than it already was since any hyperdrive-capable ship could be a superweapon.

So much for letting the discussion die.

Because he prefers big superweapons and probably because he never thought of it. He's a politician not a starship engineer and most people who haven't actually studied hyperdrive engineering and maintenance or aren't at least experienced pilots probably think that the gravity well limit is a physical law rather then a safety system.

Like I said time and again this is a purely desperation tactic the kind of thing you only consider if you have literally nothing left to lose, and its something most people will consider impossible unless they have an advanced education in how hyperdrives work. Palpatine was never that desperate except for maybe the few seconds before Vader tossed him in the pit and during his fall down it plus we have no reason to believe he had the needed education to realize it was a feasible possibility. This isn't the Sten's setting and AFAIK there is no proof that Palpatine was a trained starship engineer or mechanic

Consider this. There's is an engine class that works great in clear water but causes very nasty effects if the amount of salt in the water it is being used in reaches a certain point. The designers add a system which measures the amount of salt in the water and shuts the engine down before it reaches danger levels. Now this engine is used for hundreds of years and eventually pretty every boat used on clear water has one of its successors and they all have the safety system. Eventually most people will come to think that the engine shuts down because of the salt water rather the because of the safety. Only those who design new models of the engine, those who maintain the engines and some of those who crew on the boats or for some other choose to study the design of engine in detail would realize that there was a safety shutting down the engine rather then the salt water forcing the engine to halt.

What if it never entered use as a result of the Vong arriving early and the Death Star super laser never operational leaves it on the side lines until its moved to Alderaan as part of its final journey to be decommissioned and torn apart?

Only for the Vong to attack Alderaan forcing its surviving inhabitants to flee aboard the Death Star as it jumps out of the system its new purpose to find a new home for the last survivors of Alderaan as they're still pursued by the Vong who see the Death Star as the ultimate abomination...

Oh I just created the Star Wars version of Battlestar Galactica!

The debris or most of it burning up in atmosphere with no chunks hitting the ground large enough to inflict major damage like at Endor doesn't seem likely to apply here.

You.. Dont know much about base physics, i take it?

You realize that the debris burning up in the atmosphere would.. You know.. Burn up. A.k.a. releasing massive amount of energy in the atmosphere, causing massive environmental damage that would wreck the climate to cataclysmic proportion.

This is all theory since we have not seen the results of gigantic battle stations blowing up near a world or the debris from one burning up in atmosphere in reality and in Star Wars it obviously does not work the way you think it does outside of Imperial propaganda films.

They ship hypering into a planet case we have actually seen results from in the source material. The problem is different sources give it different results. One source says if a ship from a specific class, and thus a ship of a certain mass, does so it is a world shattering amount of damage while another source says such an incident does less damage but is so vague about what type of ship is being discussed that we can't be certain if it means a small freighter or a full warship.

They ship hypering into a planet case we have actually seen results from in the source material. The problem is different sources give it different results. One source says if a ship from a specific class, and thus a ship of a certain mass, does so it is a world shattering amount of damage while another source says such an incident does less damage but is so vague about what type of ship is being discussed that we can't be certain if it means a small freighter or a full warship.

There are two sources of which I am familiar (and indeed which Wookieepedia gives). First off, both these sources are Legends material and are not of use in debating about Star Wars physics until they are brought into the canon.

However...for those of us who like to use Legends material, let's consider the two meager sources we are given.

1) The Praetor-class battlecruiser, the Quaestor, was destroyed in a hyperspace accident which also devasted the world of Pammant. Note that this was an "accident," or "mishap." Not a sound tactic. Not even a desperation tactic. A freak accident resulting from sabotage. The source for this incident is an "Incredible Cross-Sections" book.

2) Galaxy of Intrigue gives us an idea for an "Intrigue Campaign" that revolves around an invasion from the Unknown Region. A secret fleet of alien ships is poised to strike at the galaxy, is adept at vanishing without a trace, and somehow apparently creates a mass shadow capable of pulling a starship from hyperspace. At the end of the campaign, the invasion fleet's "mothership" (size unknown, but "mothership" serves to impart some idea) on a hyperspace collision course with a major metropolitan planet, with the projected death toll being "incredibly high."

Both instances involve lots of unknowns, making inscrutable the actual means, the results, and any semblance of tactics behind such an attempt. It simply isn't feasible by all accounts, even in the Legends material. If the only sources are a single freak accident and the theorized collision of an alien mothership from the Unknown Regions in an RPG campaign, then there really is no case to be made for this proposed "tactic."

I kinda liked the original topic of this thread. More on that would be cool.

I kinda liked the original topic of this thread. More on that would be cool.

Gladly.

How about if the SECOND Death Star wasnt destroyed? I mean.. You can assume multiple scenarios, all of them interesting. Id go with 3 optional binary choices, going with a total of 8 different outcomes:

- The Emperor lives/Dies (E1/E0)

- Darth Vader lives/Dies (D1/D0)

- the Executor survives/Destroyed (X1/X0)

Obviously, any E1D1 situation would assume that Vader did not turned on the Emperor, therefore keeping the status quo when it comes to the Empire's top leadership.

The Executor's importance is merely as a representation of the fate of the Rebel fleet. X1 means the rebel fleet was crushed, X0 means a substantial element have been able to escape.

Imagine, for a moment, the scenario E0D0X0. Jerjerrod is now in command of the Death Star, the Imperial fleet is however in disarray (I like Pelleaon's assessment of the consequence of the Executor's destruction).

What then?

Well, presumably the shield generator would have remained intact, meaning that Solo's strike team had failed their mission. Perhaps the Ewoks never came to their rescue.

The majority of the Rebel fleet would have escaped thanks to the destruction of the Executor and the death of the Emperor, throwing the Imperial fleet into disarray.

The Empire would have continued, united around the Death Star as the ultimate power in the universe. The Rebellion might have rallied, but ultimately they would have been hunted down, drawn out, or forced to surrender in the face of seeing their home worlds destroyed.

Hmm.. Luke Skywalker would still have escaped. Do you think he would have managed to rally the Rebellion against Emperor Jerjerrod?

Possibly...but I think he would have withdrawn. Maybe started up a new Jedi order, maybe not.

Oh, i am 100% sure he wouldn't have rallied here and there.

But escaped alongside the Rebel Fleet, and became its poster boy? The Empire still strong, and yet there is a new birthing Jedi Order on the rise?

The question is would the Empire have really rallied around any one leader in E0D0X0? Another question is would they have been able to complete the Death Star II in such a scenario? If the Empire fragments then the supplies needed to finish the station could easily find themselves being seized or diverted by other leaders. The Death Star II won't do any faction much good unless it is fully mobile and the hull completed.

Woah.. Thats a good point. Man. I need to explore this scenario longer. The station is still protected by the shields, but cant move..

So much for letting the discussion die.

Because he prefers big superweapons and probably because he never thought of it. He's a politician not a starship engineer and most people who haven't actually studied hyperdrive engineering and maintenance or aren't at least experienced pilots probably think that the gravity well limit is a physical law rather then a safety system.

Like I said time and again this is a purely desperation tactic the kind of thing you only consider if you have literally nothing left to lose, and its something most people will consider impossible unless they have an advanced education in how hyperdrives work. Palpatine was never that desperate except for maybe the few seconds before Vader tossed him in the pit and during his fall down it plus we have no reason to believe he had the needed education to realize it was a feasible possibility. This isn't the Sten's setting and AFAIK there is no proof that Palpatine was a trained starship engineer or mechanic

Consider this. There's is an engine class that works great in clear water but causes very nasty effects if the amount of salt in the water it is being used in reaches a certain point. The designers add a system which measures the amount of salt in the water and shuts the engine down before it reaches danger levels. Now this engine is used for hundreds of years and eventually pretty every boat used on clear water has one of its successors and they all have the safety system. Eventually most people will come to think that the engine shuts down because of the salt water rather the because of the safety. Only those who design new models of the engine, those who maintain the engines and some of those who crew on the boats or for some other choose to study the design of engine in detail would realize that there was a safety shutting down the engine rather then the salt water forcing the engine to halt.

Palpatine wasn't a space station engineer either yet he still had two Death Stars constructed. He had countless people under his command that did have this knowledge. That's the wonderful thing about having an organization; everything doesn't rest solely on you.

Seriously, no young mechanic after seeing the Empire's love of death machines decided to speak up and get a promotion? All the engineering expertise that went into the design of two battlestations with superlasers never produced anyone capable of bypassing a safety mechanism?

Again back to this. Two weeks it was dead then someone just had to revive it going back over old points.

You assume that the Emperor wants people to know that starships can be converted to WMDs. Palpatine likes massively destructive weapons but only ones that he can control. He can't control every hyperdrive equipped vessel so using ships as hyperspace missiles is a two edged sword that can be used against him as easily as it can be used by him.

Again back to this. Two weeks it was dead then someone just had to revive it going back over old points.

You assume that the Emperor wants people to know that starships can be converted to WMDs. Palpatine likes massively destructive weapons but only ones that he can control. He can't control every hyperdrive equipped vessel so using ships as hyperspace missiles is a two edged sword that can be used against him as easily as it can be used by him.

And yet if it's that easy, it seems inevitable that someone else would discover it and use it against him first. Besides, he wouldn't have to tell anyone how it works. All the galaxy would know is that he has planet-destroying missiles.

And then when the word inevitably leaks about the hyperdrive modifications going on every one knows to do it. The question of how hard rigging the hyperdrive would be remains though but given that light battle damage in the right spot seems to be enough to take out the safeties I doubt it would be that hard for someone trained in the technology.

Also The Emperor likes big showy weapons and again the Empire wants a weapon its enemies cannot duplicate .

Again back to this. Two weeks it was dead then someone just had to revive it going back over old points.

You assume that the Emperor wants people to know that starships can be converted to WMDs. Palpatine likes massively destructive weapons but only ones that he can control. He can't control every hyperdrive equipped vessel so using ships as hyperspace missiles is a two edged sword that can be used against him as easily as it can be used by him.

And yet if it's that easy, it seems inevitable that someone else would discover it and use it against him first. Besides, he wouldn't have to tell anyone how it works. All the galaxy would know is that he has planet-destroying missiles.

The SW galaxy contains many trillions of people, probably quadrillions based on rough mental estimates. And SW has a high-proportion of people who understand technology as well. All of which apparently have never asked themselves "what happens

if you materialize inside an object?" or wonder why the entire transport network of the galaxy spends all that time plotting hyperspace routes that avoid flying through stars and planets and apparently think it's just done for fun. Apparently you can learn how to design, build, maintain hyperdrives without anyone knowing the principles they work on.

This has been gone over many times with RogueCorona. They've clung to this non-sensical position and even contradicted themselves from post to post. Why, I don't know, but I think everyone but they recognize it doesn't make sense.

I did one like this, midway through the rebellion had shrunk to just home one and there were 5 deathstars and they were working on building another massive weapon. now codenamed starkiller base. rey becomes an inquisitor, Finn is a commander of the rebellion. and kylo ren is still there just admral thrawn's son and he is darth ren.

Again back to this. Two weeks it was dead then someone just had to revive it going back over old points.

You assume that the Emperor wants people to know that starships can be converted to WMDs. Palpatine likes massively destructive weapons but only ones that he can control. He can't control every hyperdrive equipped vessel so using ships as hyperspace missiles is a two edged sword that can be used against him as easily as it can be used by him.

And yet if it's that easy, it seems inevitable that someone else would discover it and use it against him first. Besides, he wouldn't have to tell anyone how it works. All the galaxy would know is that he has planet-destroying missiles.

The SW galaxy contains many trillions of people, probably quadrillions based on rough mental estimates. And SW has a high-proportion of people who understand technology as well. All of which apparently have never asked themselves "what happens

if you materialize inside an object?" or wonder why the entire transport network of the galaxy spends all that time plotting hyperspace routes that avoid flying through stars and planets and apparently think it's just done for fun. Apparently you can learn how to design, build, maintain hyperdrives without anyone knowing the principles they work on.

This has been gone over many times with RogueCorona. They've clung to this non-sensical position and even contradicted themselves from post to post. Why, I don't know, but I think everyone but they recognize it doesn't make sense.

Yeah that's why I just gave up and dropped it. To me it is completely nonsensical that no one in the entire galaxy actually learns how hyperdrives work.

minor TFA spoilers

And I never said no one knew how the hyperdrives worked I said it wouldn't be common knowledge. Hyperdrive engineering and repair specialists would know and maybe some pilots but the average person riding on or flying a ship aren't going to know the exact details of how a hyperdrive works any more then the average jet passenger can explain exactly how a jet engine works.

And I never said no one knew how the hyperdrives worked I said it wouldn't be common knowledge. Hyperdrive engineering and repair specialists would know and maybe some pilots but the average person riding on or flying a ship aren't going to know the exact details of how a hyperdrive works any more then the average jet passenger can explain exactly how a jet engine works.

In a galaxy of multi-trillions, where space-travel is routine, those "engineering and repair specialists", also known as mechanics, are going to number in the billions. If flying a vehicle into a planet blew up the planet, it would be common knowledge.

Honestly for all we know it might be much more well known then I think. The only evidence we have that it can't be done intentionally is that we haven't seen it being done yet.

There were several things involving hyperdrives and hyperspace that we had never seen done before TFA, including things I thought would be impossible until I saw them done in the movie, which we now know are actually possible to do. Right now what cannot be done with a hyperdrive is unknown to us.

Honestly for all we know it might be much more well known then I think. The only evidence we have that it can't be done intentionally is that we haven't seen it being done yet.

There were several things involving hyperdrives and hyperspace that we had never seen done before TFA, including things I thought would be impossible until I saw them done in the movie, which we now know are actually possible to do. Right now what cannot be done with a hyperdrive is unknown to us.

Ironically, that's exactly the same evidence we have that it *can* be done intentionally, or even at all. None.

With the population of Star Wars, if only *one* person in a billion understands hyperdrives enough to make them do what you're talking about, there's a few thousand on Coruscant, and a few thousand more on Correllia, just based on the extrapolated populations of those two worlds alone. Probably tens/hundreds of thousands more among the rest of the galaxy.

Those numbers aren't even remotely surprising when you consider the number of starships that are designed, produced, maintained, destroyed, rebuilt, refitted, and kludged together from scrap all over the Star Wars galaxy.

Heck, with your TFA example, that right there is pretty *dang* good evidence that world-destroying, droid-steered, hyperdrive missiles aren't a possibility. Why risk the lives of entire *worlds* trying to stop it the hard way, when you can toss a freshly-wiped R2 unit in an X-Wing and take the entire thing out at once?

You're arguing Russell's teapot here. There is no evidence to support your position, but you're arguing that, because it cannot be conclusively proven impossible with references to in-universe facts/dialog, it therefore *must* be possible.

We can neither prove that it is impossible nor possible true. But there is at least as much evidence pointing to it being possible as not. Actually more so IMO.

We now know that ships can hyperspace deep into gravity wells.

We also know that they can bypass planetary shields while in hyperspace

We don't know what the destructive effect of a ship in hyperspace hitting a planet has in canon but when it happens in Legends the effect is devastating.

Maybe someday they will show us what the effect is in canon, maybe they won't but discounting the idea because it hasn't been shown happening in canon yet seems very flimsy to me.