I'm in the rough outline phase of planning a campaign and I wanted to do a Rebels game in which the Death Star wasn't destroyed. In this timeline Han doesn't come back just in the nick of time to save Luke so he gets taken out by Vader. Vader sensing there is another Force user on Yavin halts the attack of the main gun and instead leads an assault on the base, capturing several rebels including Leia, which he will later turn to the darkside. After the assault Yavin 4 is destroyed as a show of continued force and the rebels spend the next year on the run as a result of intel that the Empire gets from Leia being turned.

So for the first season of the campaign the players are going to be tasked with finding aid for the Alliance (among other activities). But my question then becomes is it logical for planets to still want to side with the rebels if the Death Star is in use? I want the situation to be desperate but would the active threat of your planet being atomized result in the rebels not being able to find aid and assistance anywhere?

The Death Star was a make or break moment for the Rebellion. By losing that battle, I think it is a huge setback.

I think you can go two different ways regarding systems openly rebelling:

Firstly, any major well known system (primarily colonies and core) will absolutely not oppose the Empire. The fear of the Death Star will keep them in line.

On the other hand, small systems in the far reaches of space may not be such a threat and could get away with helping the Rebellion.

Don't forget that Tarkin is still alive, dominating the outer rim.

--Lagspike

Actually Tarkin features into my plans as he remains a prominent threat. But yeah, I'm trying to gauge general level of resistance to the Empire once it can just blow apart whole planets at a whim. I want things to be desperate but not so desperate that resistance is pointless.

A galaxy is a massive place and there will always be oppressed and downtrodden. Therefore to answer your question "Yes". I would say the new rebellion may move to more urban areas on major planets, this is due to the relative protection of the population from an attack from the Death Star. You could even start them on Coruscant, in the lowest depths, trying to build underworld and political support. Being out in the open would become even more dangerous, and until the resources can be built back up (and not all in one place like Yavin and Hoth) and more than a single fleet can be assembled in remote areas.

The party could become the focal point of a new rebellion, becoming the founders and leaders of the entire uprising. Now you don't have cannon to keep within. It sounds like a great campaign and one I'd love to run one day.

Hope that helps and post other questions if you want more ideas.

Reminds me of an Alternate universe my PC got warped to for a while in a Star Wars Mush once. Except there Luke and ObiWan never left Tatooine but eventually Empire found and destroyed Yavin. Most of the various PCs that were pulled there banded together to help start a one. My character was a former Rebel Alliance and New Republic Privater turned Freelance freighter pilot and he spent most of his time in that universe using his knowledge of Shadowports and the Black Market from his universe to help set up the new rebellion's supply grid.

The destruction of Alderan was a key point in the rebel alliance too, so there would still be support for the alliance, although not as much as if they'd succeeded in destroying the Death Star.

However, key planets may not join the alliance, so for example if Mon Cal didn't join the rebellion would be dead on its feet as they wouldn't have the mon cal ship yards building fighters and capital ships for them...

I think you would be looking at the start of the next great Sith empire. It would be an exceedingly dark time. Rebel elements would, of necessity, become a more underground movement. Remember that in the movies it's a Rebellion, not a Resistance. There are planets that support them, are in Rebel hands, etc. That will quickly slip away from them as the shock of Alderaan's destruction filters through the galaxy. With the rebels becoming more of an underground movement, Imperial efforts will shift more from overt military operations against enemy forces and more toward Stasi-like monitoring and "knocks on the door" style ways of fighting them. Fear will be the order of the day.

The nature of the upper power structures will shift more as well as the pure fascism of the Empire at war begins to settle into a more entrenched cabal of political control. The Empire of the OT is to me, Lawful Evil for want of a better term. Fascist, disciplined and internally strong. With success the hierarchy will become more dissolute. It will take time of course, but I would expect it to move to a more Neutral Evil web of corruption and neopotism. Lack of opposition is the undoing of all empires. The attitudes that will drive a state to dominance, are the same attitudes that lead to its collapse once it has achieved that. The cycle is inevitable in all cases I have seen. It just takes time.

But the immediate aftermath, I would see as the Rebellion trying to hide itself and the rise of a state that is a mix of 1984 and post-Julias Ceasar Roman Empire. Very dark times. Most games will focus on lack of detection, smuggling people to safety, forged documents, etc. I'm talking oppressive here. Nearly everyone in every area of life,will be afraid. Which is just how Palpatine likes it.

I think even if the Mon Cal don't join the Rebellion/Resistance it won't be too long before they manage to patch together a shipyard, assuming they don't just restore an abandoned one. Also just because the Death Star survived Yavin doesn't mean it will last long. If the Alliance leadership had any intelligence they made sure a courier carrying knowledge of the weakness got out to their allies and other bases so they know how to kill it. And since its commander ignores the station's Achilles heel and will probably be encouraged to continue to do so by the results of Yavin I suspect that the Death Star's days are numbered either way.

Reminds me of the Infinities comics:

" Events begin to change when the torpedoes fired by Luke Skywalker experience a technical malfunction and fail to destroy the Death Star, but prevent the complete destruction of Yavin 4. Unable to fire a fully charged shot from the Death Star's superlaser, Grand Moff Tarkin orders the technicians to fire at reduced power, nearly leveling the Massassi Temple on the moon’s surface and fire again to destroy the planet.

The Imperials send out a wing of TIE Fighters to pick off the remaining members of Red Squadron. Luke, driven to near-insanity by the failure of the mission and the apparent destruction of Rebel base, turns his fighter to face the TIEs alone. Eventually, Han Solo convinces Luke to flee and the Millennium Falcon jumps into hyperspace with Luke’s X-wing on its tail.

The Rebel forces attempt to flee the Yavin system, but are captured by the Imperials. The Rebel leaders are imprisoned on the Death Star to await execution, but Princess Leia is taken to Coruscant, where she is put under house arrest at the Emperor’s residence, which was once the Jedi Temple. Once there, Darth Vader subtly begins Leia's training in the dark side of the Force. "

I won't spoil the ending! It's worth reading through the rest of the storyline, could give you some good scenario ideas for you game!

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I'm looking to starting the players off in the outer rims, trying to gain support and allies. So they'll spend most of their early time evading the eyes of the Empire while trying to rebuild whats left of the Alliance. Oh and fereting out spies

Do you have a name on the Infinities comic? Sounds like something I should check out.

It was three four part comics (so pretty short), one for each of the trilogy; the "Star Wars Infinities: A New Hope" would be the one that would be of most interest to you.

I 'm fairly confident they released the comics as a collection, it was a while ago now though.

Actually Tarkin features into my plans as he remains a prominent threat. But yeah, I'm trying to gauge general level of resistance to the Empire once it can just blow apart whole planets at a whim. I want things to be desperate but not so desperate that resistance is pointless.

You need to remember that the Empire, in fact, CAN'T "just blow away troubling worlds"; it's a cute idea, if you are a megalomaniacal dictator, but even with a million worlds, there are some it's just too costly to lose. The Death Star is neat, but the Warhammer 40,000 Imperium of Man is grimdark , and exterminatus weapons, while rare, are certainly more numerous than one (or even a half-dozen, if you take into account the Death Star's replacements, on through the EU, since it was destroyed), while Mankind's leadership often would burn a whole world, maybe sector, to keep it out of enemy hands; the problem is, in may cases, they just can't afford to lose it, and everything it can ever do. Human life is the ultimate cheap, short of having a man with a gun watch you be born, say "I see a flaw", and just shoot you then, with a bolt shell, and then shoot your parents, because that genetic combination will always be the one they make, right?, and they still don't shatter worlds beyond carpet-bombing, while the SW Emperor has much more poise, and self-control, and is much less openly a ****.

The Death Star was a terror weapon, sort of never really meant to be used. The idea that this thing can exterminate your whole world; you culture, your history, your monuments, where your God ascended into the heavens, that place you and your spouse first met, and where you buried your parents, is a nightmare, more so even than any nuclear holocaust probably would be, and that scares the people, since planets can rarely hide, and even more rarely dodge, but once the Emperor showed it did work, and he would use it, that caused lots of other people to fear, and rebel. Meanwhile, on his end, it makes things worse. Blow up Corellia, go ahead. What he lost won't justify what he got, and the Rebels, while scared, will just cell up, and spread out even more. Where once, one or five planets lost would've eaten the Rebellion, now you'll need to destroy dozens, hoping to get a few, and any gov't that burns down my house, be they stopping termites, or terrorists, is now a gov't I question the validity of. Using it was one of the Emperor's biggest blunders, and for every little world no one will miss, there are worlds he just can't shoot, even were Mon Mothma there, in person.

Dodging past that little tirade, sorry, it could be very cool to see a scenario like this, where the party is less restricted by "what the stars did", and more allowed to, maybe, defeat Darth Vader, become the Emperor's best servants, and/or save the entire galaxy, which then may NOT immediately be assaulted by space velociraptors, the next DAY, Grand Admiral Spock (Thrawn is awesome, though), six years down the line, and then a race of weird, Force-severed bioengineers who get the galaxy to hand over their best weapon (the Jedi they don't like, because no Sith to be obviously worse), and then eat half the galaxy, anyway, before the Jedi come back, and save it all, again. Probably just all that political in-strife that, no matter what your story does, has to happen, because people will be dic...um, people As much as I like many SW characters, I can see the appeal of not holding onto them, just to cameo, and feel important, in your own game, and just let the players MATTER. Hope it runs swimmingly for you.

Reminds me of the Infinities comics:

" Events begin to change when the torpedoes fired by Luke Skywalker experience a technical malfunction and fail to destroy the Death Star, but prevent the complete destruction of Yavin 4. Unable to fire a fully charged shot from the Death Star's superlaser, Grand Moff Tarkin orders the technicians to fire at reduced power, nearly leveling the Massassi Temple on the moon’s surface and fire again to destroy the planet.

The Imperials send out a wing of TIE Fighters to pick off the remaining members of Red Squadron. Luke, driven to near-insanity by the failure of the mission and the apparent destruction of Rebel base, turns his fighter to face the TIEs alone. Eventually, Han Solo convinces Luke to flee and the Millennium Falcon jumps into hyperspace with Luke’s X-wing on its tail.

The Rebel forces attempt to flee the Yavin system, but are captured by the Imperials. The Rebel leaders are imprisoned on the Death Star to await execution, but Princess Leia is taken to Coruscant, where she is put under house arrest at the Emperor’s residence, which was once the Jedi Temple. Once there, Darth Vader subtly begins Leia's training in the dark side of the Force. "

I won't spoil the ending! It's worth reading through the rest of the storyline, could give you some good scenario ideas for you game!

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I'm looking to starting the players off in the outer rims, trying to gain support and allies. So they'll spend most of their early time evading the eyes of the Empire while trying to rebuild whats left of the Alliance. Oh and fereting out spies

Do you have a name on the Infinities comic? Sounds like something I should check out.

I'm glad someone else already pointed you at this, because its exactly what you're talking about. Specifically, it's the "A New Hope" series (They did one for each of the OT movies). The name's just "Inifinities: A New Hope" available as a graphic novel.

I think this vision below is very much on target. The campaign would have a radically different feel than the movies. Luke's dead, the sister will eventually supplant her father, and nobody is around to take out the Emperor.

I think you would be looking at the start of the next great Sith empire. It would be an exceedingly dark time. Rebel elements would, of necessity, become a more underground movement. Remember that in the movies it's a Rebellion, not a Resistance. There are planets that support them, are in Rebel hands, etc. That will quickly slip away from them as the shock of Alderaan's destruction filters through the galaxy. With the rebels becoming more of an underground movement, Imperial efforts will shift more from overt military operations against enemy forces and more toward Stasi-like monitoring and "knocks on the door" style ways of fighting them. Fear will be the order of the day.

The nature of the upper power structures will shift more as well as the pure fascism of the Empire at war begins to settle into a more entrenched cabal of political control. The Empire of the OT is to me, Lawful Evil for want of a better term. Fascist, disciplined and internally strong. With success the hierarchy will become more dissolute. It will take time of course, but I would expect it to move to a more Neutral Evil web of corruption and neopotism. Lack of opposition is the undoing of all empires. The attitudes that will drive a state to dominance, are the same attitudes that lead to its collapse once it has achieved that. The cycle is inevitable in all cases I have seen. It just takes time.

But the immediate aftermath, I would see as the Rebellion trying to hide itself and the rise of a state that is a mix of 1984 and post-Julias Ceasar Roman Empire. Very dark times. Most games will focus on lack of detection, smuggling people to safety, forged documents, etc. I'm talking oppressive here. Nearly everyone in every area of life,will be afraid. Which is just how Palpatine likes it.

I think this vision below is very much on target. The campaign would have a radically different feel than the movies. Luke's dead, the sister will eventually supplant her father, and nobody is around to take out the Emperor.

Nah, man, Luke doesn't die until the ESB Infinities comic.

Which, btw, is my favorite of the bunch.

What if Luke decided to go with Han when he made the offer?

What if Luke decided to go with Han when he made the offer?

Then Wedge Is the lead fighter of the last attack run and he nails the shot, cause he's just that good.

Keep it in your back pocket the idea of Rebels hiding out among largely Empire loyal planets. Personally, I see that as a good way of ensuring the planets survive. Unless the Emperor really is so crazy as to blow up his allies to kill a few Rebels.

If he did, the Rebellion will gain support

Well the issue isn't whether or not the Emperor would blow the planet up. I was more concerned on if it was reasonable for planets to want to test the Emperors resolve. Logically there are worlds he's not going to blow up. But once you blow up one or two how long will it be before planets decide it's not worth the risk. So I'm trying to puzzle out how a rebellion might thrive in a climate where there's always this fear that helping the rebels could end with your planet going boom.

I think you hit it. The Rebellion can only exist so long with the Death Star out there. It just gets too difficult. What's to stop the Empire from making an unstoppable fleet like at the end of RotJ?

At some point the Death Star has to be destroyed. Maybe you can work that in to your story.

--Lagspike

It could jump into hyperspace and never drop out or suffer an accident in hyperspace, or perhaps a malfunction in its Superlaser destroys it or cripples the main gun beyond repair like I believe happens in the ANH Infinity

One of the goals will be to take out the Death Star at some point. But that's not my current concern.

Maybe such an icon of power could actually fracture the unity of the Empire? I would focus on who in the Empire controls the Death Star.

I think Vader was always planning on challenging the Emperor eventually, as is the way of the Sith. Vader would probably have a considerable advantage if he wrestled control of the Death Star away from his master. Alternatively, let's say that the Emperor moved his seat of power to the Death Star instead of Coruscant. I could totally see Vader blowing up the Death Star to take out the Emperor.

Heck, what if Tarkin found out that the Emperor was the force wielding Sith Lord who manipulated everyone and took the Death Star for himself while flipping the double bird?

In Tarkin he's already figured out who Vader used to be, and Vader is a Sith plus suspects Palpatine was Vader's Sith master so I don't think him receiving proof of his suspicions would have a big impact on him.

Maybe such an icon of power could actually fracture the unity of the Empire? I would focus on who in the Empire controls the Death Star.

I think Vader was always planning on challenging the Emperor eventually, as is the way of the Sith. Vader would probably have a considerable advantage if he wrestled control of the Death Star away from his master. Alternatively, let's say that the Emperor moved his seat of power to the Death Star instead of Coruscant. I could totally see Vader blowing up the Death Star to take out the Emperor.

Heck, what if Tarkin found out that the Emperor was the force wielding Sith Lord who manipulated everyone and took the Death Star for himself while flipping the double bird?

I hadn't considered the Death Star fracturing unity in the Empire. I did have plans for Vader to work against Palaptine. I was going to have Leia captured and becoming an Imperial Inquisitor whom Vader may consider turning into his own apprentice.