https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/8/25/the-massing-at-sullust/

Well we know something about the ISD IIs now, so that is really cool. I guess based off this event we will see Wave 2 coming out sometime late October or early November?

Interesting info. ISD II at 120 naked. Wow.

Yep, thats way more than many expected!

Yep, thats way more than many expected!

It seems bloated at first, but I suspect the extra defense token and extra speed are a big part of that cost (over the VSD). Extra hull, only 1 more shield total, but extra dice all around.

That Imperial II is an absolute beast. Speed 3 with two banks at 2 and 3 is definitely worth the 120 points. It's going to be able to give chase to Rebel ships quite easily. 2 blue dice with Point Defense reroute is quite crazy too...

Advanced Projectors with the Contain token will mean that the Rebel meta is going to shift towards stuff with more accuracies, more debuffs too. CR90Bs with Overload Pulse are going to become quite commonplace too.

I'm really wondering how VSDs will fit in lists with ISDs, now that the ISD is quite clearly superior

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

FIIIINNNAAAALLLLYYYYYYY!

I am even more interested in the MC80 and MC30 costs now. The ISD being as fast and maneuverable as the AF MkII asks some tough questions of my current favorite build.

"That Imperial II is an absolute beast"

Really it's horrendous. The nebulon just became even weaker..

I know she's supposed to be a support ship and NOT a ship of the line (though currently used that way) but still, the ISD can run her down.

The VSD has it's place as a cheaper ship though, that doesn't worry me. 120 is a lot!

That Imperial II is an absolute beast. Speed 3 with two banks at 2 and 3 is definitely worth the 120 points. It's going to be able to give chase to Rebel ships quite easily. 2 blue dice with Point Defense reroute is quite crazy too...

Advanced Projectors with the Contain token will mean that the Rebel meta is going to shift towards stuff with more accuracies, more debuffs too. CR90Bs with Overload Pulse are going to become quite commonplace too.

I'm really wondering how VSDs will fit in lists with ISDs, now that the ISD is quite clearly superior

Do we know what Contain does yet?

I was literally writing a post about how playtesting these new big ships must of been horrendous, and how the stats that we saw in the first preview couldn't of been right.

Over the top and beyond. The ISD can do speed 3? Seriously? The Victory class has just become obsolete.

What a GW-like power creep. Remember Kevin Kline in "A Fish Called Wanda"? Disappoooooointeeeeed.

They were supposed to be pretty fast...

but at 1.5 times the cost of a victory the vic is NOT obsolete.

2 ISD vs 3 VIC.. the vics have more firepower, not to mention initiative advantage.

That Imperial II is an absolute beast. Speed 3 with two banks at 2 and 3 is definitely worth the 120 points. It's going to be able to give chase to Rebel ships quite easily. 2 blue dice with Point Defense reroute is quite crazy too...

Advanced Projectors with the Contain token will mean that the Rebel meta is going to shift towards stuff with more accuracies, more debuffs too. CR90Bs with Overload Pulse are going to become quite commonplace too.

I'm really wondering how VSDs will fit in lists with ISDs, now that the ISD is quite clearly superior

Do we know what Contain does yet?

I think Contain had something to do with preventing critical effects

Vis are famously slow in the fluff....the ISD is quite right to be faster.

As stuuk says, dont be fooled by the first impression. 3 Vics have more firepower and more total HP than 2 ISDs.

That Imperial II is an absolute beast. Speed 3 with two banks at 2 and 3 is definitely worth the 120 points. It's going to be able to give chase to Rebel ships quite easily. 2 blue dice with Point Defense reroute is quite crazy too...

Advanced Projectors with the Contain token will mean that the Rebel meta is going to shift towards stuff with more accuracies, more debuffs too. CR90Bs with Overload Pulse are going to become quite commonplace too.

I'm really wondering how VSDs will fit in lists with ISDs, now that the ISD is quite clearly superior

Do we know what Contain does yet?

I think Contain had something to do with preventing critical effects

Exactly, from the "Here they Come" article, Contain talks about preventing a critical effect, but we don't know the wording yet (for example, could ships with access to 2 critical effects still apply one ?).

They may seem as fast as a MKII but they sort of are not because of the bigger base. Those bases are almost twice as big as a medium base. So they will not be able to get out of range as easy, and they won't be able to turn as tight to the edge of the board either.

VSD's will be used to guard the rear of your ISD. IMHO.

ISDs are fast Corellian ships, not bulk cruisers like the VSD.

"Unavoidable production delays"

Play testing and balancing these behemoths would probably be it, they cant print the cardboard chits and cards without the final rendition of the rules and values they have, while they can still go ahread and produce the plastic models and bases, and paint them, without needing the final ruleset.

Making it so that it doesn't outclass the mediums, but can hold its own against smalls, has got to be a challenge! I for one don't how they would of done that, but it appears that an extra 2 months of play-testing might of payed off (I hope).

ISD Mk II is AMAZING!

I'm feeling pretty on board with Stuuk's point, and I think we will have a better stance to speculate about the Nebulon-B's place going forward when we get more information about the MC30. Unless there are some stellar upgrade cards, the Neb is starting to worry me as a square peg in the round hole of the Alliance fleet. Obviously we will all see for ourselves when we get it on the table this winter, but I think it is far more reasonable to worry about the Neb's place in wave two and beyond rather than the Victory.

Exactly, from the "Here they Come" article, Contain talks about preventing a critical effect, but we don't know the wording yet (for example, could ships with access to 2 critical effects still apply one ?).

I was wondering about that too, would XX-9's be more useful against the big guys? I haven't seen them get a lot of use, so it might be an interesting choice if contain is just against 'the first critical effect'.

They may seem as fast as a MKII but they sort of are not because of the bigger base. Those bases are almost twice as big as a medium base. So they will not be able to get out of range as easy, and they won't be able to turn as tight to the edge of the board either.

VSD's will be used to guard the rear of your ISD. IMHO.

I was thinking that too. Especially with an ISD blasting at speed 2/3, flanking is going to become a breeze for Rebels

I read "Here They Come" again and here is the wording of the article :

"Featured on both the Imperial I-class andImperial II-class Star Destroyers, the Contain token can cancel the standard critical effect of a shot that passes through your shields to your hull"

Assuming the Contain rule hasn't changed : If it is only the standard critical effect, XX-9 are going to see a tad more use. Useless against ACMs or Overload Pulse/Ion Cannons.

We're going to see such cards much more than before.

I expected the 2 to be that expensive

ISDs have decent firepower and high HP, but their shields aren't an amazing improvement over the VSD, either, so they're not going to hold down a flank unsupported. VSDs will still have a role as a face-puncher with Warlord and Dominator, or as a Bomber delivery system with Corrupter, as well as guarding the sides/rear of your ISD from getting swarmed.

But if I may be awed for a moment, sweet space jeebus with Motti the ISD gets 14 HP...

Definitely a hell of a hammer and an obvious extension of Imperial style doctrine.

These things are going to straight up pop AFIIs that aren't on top of their game. Speed 3, 2 yaw at 2/3, average of 6 damage / 1.5 acc from front arc at medium range, advanced projector redundant redirect...

I can't wait to see what the rest are like.