We have 2-3 women who play occasionally in private atmosphere (without happy ending...no just joking).

Yeah I really have no idea why fewer women play in this environment.

We have 2-3 women who play occasionally in private atmosphere (without happy ending...no just joking).

Yeah I really have no idea why fewer women play in this environment.

We have 2-3 women who play occasionally in private atmosphere (without happy ending...no just joking).

Yeah I really have no idea why fewer women play in this environment.

Tailored marketing would help. "Building the perfect squad list is like fine tuning a dinner recipe."

Or "The perfect sandwich requires the perfect ingredients. A Perfect squad list is like a perfect sandwich. Make me a sandwich."

I was the only female at the regional I went to in Illinois. It wasn't even something I noticed until the end when we were sitting around waiting for results. I am the only one that plays at my local store. X-Wing is the first game that I have ever played seriously. I just really love Star Wars and love the X-Wing novels, so I always wanted to play this.The store and others players are super nice to new players. That is why I think I have continued playing.

We have 2-3 women who play occasionally in private atmosphere (without happy ending...no just joking).

Yeah I really have no idea why fewer women play in this environment.

Nice one

I know from my personal experience my wife views it as playing with toys (which it kinda is) and that by proxy makes it a more male oriented activity. She doesn't dislike it just thinks it's a guy/kid kinda hobby. Not all women see it that way obviously but many women might.

The best part about all the jokes in this thread is not just the misogyny, but that fact that they're also just very tired, unoriginal and not very good jokes.

Like, it's tiring, if I want to play a game I just want to play the game, not get cheesy jokes or get talked down to just cause I happen to be a woman. And it doesn't help that miniature games are still very commonly seen as a guy thing, that does put people off.

The best part about all the jokes in this thread is not just the misogyny, but that fact that they're also just very tired, unoriginal and not very good jokes.

Like, it's tiring, if I want to play a game I just want to play the game, not get cheesy jokes or get talked down to just cause I happen to be a woman. And it doesn't help that miniature games are still very commonly seen as a guy thing, that does put people off.

Where is the misogyny in this thread?

If you have fun, play it.

I think men always compete with each other (the "how" is not important), it is the way of nature, kind of court some females (most of the time it is grounded in us), even when there are no women present. Also leading to self-esteem (which again comes back to success and "females"). The way of nature of women is different, they don´t have to compete for men (looking from nature´s point of view), at least not the way men do.

At least for me, I always want to compete with others. Mainly to get better in the activity I am currently doing and for my self-esteem.

Where is the misogyny in this thread?

Jokes about "playing privately" and "happy endings." Jokes about "making dinner" and "sandwiches." And the inevitable "but I was just joking" attitude that pushes the blame onto the other party for "not having a sense of humor."

Jokes are supposed to be witty, clever, funny. "Hur dur, women are good for sex and domestic duties" isn't any of those things.

And to be clear: it's not that these things can't be said (my wife and I say far more horrible things to each other in jest than I've ever seen on these boards); it's that you have to know your audience, and when you're talking about a public forum on the internet, you basically can't know the audience due to the size of the community and the fact that most of them are lurkers.

That results in the stuff that passes as humor in your boys-club FLGS/garage/dorm not flying here (or at least discouraging the women from sticking around).

Edit: meant to add that paragraph 2 was explicitly echoing Astrella's comment above. Oops.

I wish there were more women who play X-wing. I like women, frankly more than most men I meet / know.

I wonder if women wish more men partook in their favorite hobby of ______________ (fill in what ever you want). Frankly, I doubt it. They are already doing what they enjoy, and don't need any particular demographic to make it enriching / worthwhile.

I also really wonder why treating women equally (a great thing) also doesn't include respecting their wishes (as individuals) to play or not play any certain game. Shouldn't respect include that?

I love that my wife or daughter can chose to do / play what they want. When that happens to coincide with me, great. If not, great.

Where is the misogyny in this thread?

Jokes about "playing privately" and "happy endings." Jokes about "making dinner" and "sandwiches." And the inevitable "but I was just joking" attitude that pushes the blame onto the other party for "not having a sense of humor."

Jokes are supposed to be witty, clever, funny. "Hur dur, women are good for sex and domestic duties" isn't any of those things.

And to be clear: it's not that these things can't be said (my wife and I say far more horrible things to each other in jest than I've ever seen on these boards); it's that you have to know your audience, and when you're talking about a public forum on the internet, you basically can't know the audience due to the size of the community and the fact that most of them are lurkers.

That results in the stuff that passes as humor in your boys-club FLGS/garage/dorm not flying here (or at least discouraging the women from sticking around).

Edit: meant to add that paragraph 2 was explicitly echoing Astrella's comment above. Oops.

But... But... I'm good for sex and domestic duties too...

My wife equates me playing X-Wing to me playing X-Box, both are things that I do when I should be doing something more productive.

Where is the misogyny in this thread?

Jokes about "playing privately" and "happy endings." Jokes about "making dinner" and "sandwiches." And the inevitable "but I was just joking" attitude that pushes the blame onto the other party for "not having a sense of humor."

Jokes are supposed to be witty, clever, funny. "Hur dur, women are good for sex and domestic duties" isn't any of those things.

And to be clear: it's not that these things can't be said (my wife and I say far more horrible things to each other in jest than I've ever seen on these boards); it's that you have to know your audience, and when you're talking about a public forum on the internet, you basically can't know the audience due to the size of the community and the fact that most of them are lurkers.

That results in the stuff that passes as humor in your boys-club FLGS/garage/dorm not flying here (or at least discouraging the women from sticking around).

Edit: meant to add that paragraph 2 was explicitly echoing Astrella's comment above. Oops.

That´s clear enough, you are right.

Hope nobody is offended, because I would like to see women in tournaments (and not only in private environment (that´s no joke, I mean other place that at home or with friends) and play against. Hoping that X-wing become more socially acceptable (which I think is far more compaired to other table top games).

Men use psychological attacks to throw their opponents concentration and get them to make mistakes it's not personal just how we are you see a weakness like my mate robs bald spot and you use it but he'll in turn mock my receding hairline it's water off a ducks back.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

It's not that men don't want women sharing their hobby it's that they don't want to be forced into changing how they play, we don't go into female orientated hobbies and demand they change to suit us so it rubs some people wrong when we are told we are having fun wrong and must change to suit them.

There is give and take you can't waltz in and expect people to bend over backwards to suit you that's not how equality works.

I also really wonder why treating women equally (a great thing) also doesn't include respecting their wishes (as individuals) to play or not play any certain game. Shouldn't respect include that?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that women should be badgered or forced into playing X-wing at tournaments. If the reason that a woman doesn't want to go to a tournament is because she's not interested, then there's no conflict. But if a woman is interested in playing tournaments, and is discouraged from it for some other reason, maybe there's a problem that can be addressed, and maybe the tournament scene would be richer for it.

Men use psychological attacks to throw their opponents concentration and get them to make mistakes it's not personal just how we are you see a weakness like my mate robs bald spot and you use it but he'll in turn mock my receding hairline it's water off a ducks back.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

It's not that men don't want women sharing their hobby it's that they don't want to be forced into changing how they play, we don't go into female orientated hobbies and demand they change to suit us so it rubs some people wrong when we are told we are having fun wrong and must change to suit them.

There is give and take you can't waltz in and expect people to bend over backwards to suit you that's not how equality works.

Maybe where you play that kind of thing happens. I've been playing this game with the same group for nearly 2 years and we've never once traded insults to try to psych each other out. We just play the game.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

So misogynistic comments aren't that if you're just trying to psych your opponent out and get under their skin? Got it.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

It's not that men don't want women sharing their hobby it's that they don't want to be forced into changing how they play, we don't go into female orientated hobbies and demand they change to suit us so it rubs some people wrong when we are told we are having fun wrong and must change to suit them.

There is give and take you can't waltz in and expect people to bend over backwards to suit you that's not how equality works.

As a great philosopher once said,

"wat".

Men use psychological attacks to throw their opponents concentration and get them to make mistakes it's not personal just how we are you see a weakness like my mate robs bald spot and you use it but he'll in turn mock my receding hairline it's water off a ducks back.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

It's not that men don't want women sharing their hobby it's that they don't want to be forced into changing how they play, we don't go into female orientated hobbies and demand they change to suit us so it rubs some people wrong when we are told we are having fun wrong and must change to suit them.

There is give and take you can't waltz in and expect people to bend over backwards to suit you that's not how equality works.

This is incoherent. Friends exchanging jokes at each others' expense (which is somehow both a "psychological attack to throw their opponents concentration" and "water off a ducks back") has nothing to do with anything in this conversation. Unless you're saying that you'd make fun of a stranger's bald spot (or race, or gender) to get a psychological advantage? If that's the case, then your comparison to abrasive 12-year-olds was apt.

Also, here's a tip: if you're using someone's sex as a weapon against them, you're probably being sexist.

This better not devolve into another "Inclusive" thread...

This better not devolve into another "Inclusive" thread...

Hey, it wasn't the thread that was bad, it was what it inevitably devolved into.

The best part about all the jokes in this thread is not just the misogyny, but that fact that they're also just very tired, unoriginal and not very good jokes.

Like, it's tiring, if I want to play a game I just want to play the game, not get cheesy jokes or get talked down to just cause I happen to be a woman. And it doesn't help that miniature games are still very commonly seen as a guy thing, that does put people off.

I wonder if any man really ever gets beyond the teasing a girl for attention flirting technique that they so craftily developed in grade school. Even as a happily married man (at least I hope that my wife would say we are happy) I've still found myself behaving this way toward my wife.

Awhile ago she and I had been talking about little boys teasing little girls and then a few days latter I was almost unconsciously poking the side of her waist. She asked me, "Why are you poking me?" After thinking for a minute I said, "because something inside of me is telling me I want to touch you and it seemed like a way to do it at this time." She then said, "I hope you're not planning on pulling my hair too."

Anyway I'm not trying to justify inappropriate behavior and/or reinforce nerd stereotypes. (In fact looking back at it maybe my post isn't all that relevant but I've spent the time writing it so dang it I'm going to post it.) You are right that many times the men's default interaction with women is uncreative and/or mean. I believe is stems more from a lack of social skills than hatred for women. I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences with the guys you've gamed with. I hope you continue to enjoy X-Wing and can introduce some of your friends to it.

I wish there were more women who play X-wing. I like women, frankly more than most men I meet / know.

I wonder if women wish more men partook in their favorite hobby of ______________ (fill in what ever you want). Frankly, I doubt it. They are already doing what they enjoy, and don't need any particular demographic to make it enriching / worthwhile.

I also really wonder why treating women equally (a great thing) also doesn't include respecting their wishes (as individuals) to play or not play any certain game. Shouldn't respect include that?

I love that my wife or daughter can chose to do / play what they want. When that happens to coincide with me, great. If not, great.

This is pretty much it. My wife would participate in a tournament if I really wanted her to. She isn't interested in the game enough to want to learn all the upgrade cards and rule nuances. She also isn't an extremely competitive person. So even if she didn't say so, I know in the end she would think it was a waste of money for the entry fee and babysitter and she would have enjoyed doing something else with me more.

I've never known any game environment irl or online where gamers don't trade insults in a friendly manner.

I play wow and half my guilds female they happily trade banter with the guys, that's not just UK players it's people from norway, Sweden Germany all over europe, we sometimes raid with a German guild and we trade cultural insults and joke about the war.

It's not misogyny by treating a female gamer the same as a male that's egalitarianism at its finest.

None of the women I know want to be treated like a princess they want to be treated like a human being.

I didn't say banter was bad, I raid in Wow as well and there's plenty of joking around during raids. I don't think any female gamer really expects to be treated like a princess, just not the same old tired jokes that we've heard a milion times before.

I don't think most men hate women either, but it is possible for someone to hold misogynistic opinions / say sexist stuff whatever without you know, going on about how they hate women all the time.

I just told my wife that she should get really good at X-wing and document her experience as a female in a male dominated hobby. She seemed interested in it from a sociological standpoint. Then I said you could answer the question, "Why don't more women participate in miniature gaming?" She immediately replied, "Because they have better things to do with their time and somebody has to watch the kids."

I have probably spent more time watching my kids than my wife has. Probably has more to do with work situation than anything else. I also wash dishes, do laundry, and vacuum. I actually enjoy vacuuming.

Well, that's just sick. Not that you do housework, that's great, who the hell likes vacuuming?!

I bought a robot to do that for my wife and I. I'm sure I'll continue to love the little bugger until the day it rises up and murders me.

Vacuuming and loading the dishwasher (i.e. getting the wife drunk, I kid, I kid...) lets me get out some of my OCD tendencies. I thought about getting a robot to vacuum, but I have concerns about how it would handle all the stuff my kids leave lying about (and that they get yelled at for). I don't want to spend $400 on something that will just break. How does yours work for you?

It really depends on the size of the toy. It would murder something the size of say x-wing mini's. But it would just push around something the size of the rebel transport. So it might hold up to your kids, can't say for sure

I schedule mine to run every day at noon while I'm at work and spend 5 minutes in the morning clearing stuff out of its way and moving the invisible walls to the right spots.

I love mine. I work it until its little robot knuckles bleed. Sometimes 2 or 3 runs a day (it goes for about an hour or until it feels it's done). It will revolt one day, probably when I buy it little robot friends that scrub my tile.

Men use psychological attacks to throw their opponents concentration and get them to make mistakes it's not personal just how we are you see a weakness like my mate robs bald spot and you use it but he'll in turn mock my receding hairline it's water off a ducks back.

Women tend to take things more personally however, when some 12 year old makes a comment he's not being misogynistic he's just trying to psych you out and get under your skin to throw your performance.

It's not that men don't want women sharing their hobby it's that they don't want to be forced into changing how they play, we don't go into female orientated hobbies and demand they change to suit us so it rubs some people wrong when we are told we are having fun wrong and must change to suit them.

There is give and take you can't waltz in and expect people to bend over backwards to suit you that's not how equality works.

Or to put it another way:

What a load of incoherent, hand-waving, victim-blaming, sexist ****ing horse****.

I also really wonder why treating women equally (a great thing) also doesn't include respecting their wishes (as individuals) to play or not play any certain game. Shouldn't respect include that?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that women should be badgered or forced into playing X-wing at tournaments. If the reason that a woman doesn't want to go to a tournament is because she's not interested, then there's no conflict. But if a woman is interested in playing tournaments, and is discouraged from it for some other reason, maybe there's a problem that can be addressed, and maybe the tournament scene would be richer for it.

I don't disagree with you, nor was that my point, but there have been prior posters in this forum who posted/acted as though "we need to get more women playing X-wing or this community has failed".

Nope.

Should the environment be respectful? Yes. Respectful to all, not especially respectful to ___________ (pick a group). But frankly, some people (men and women, white and black, rich and poor) come into every social situation with a chip on their shoulder and seemingly can't wait to be offended.

That's sad.