do you think we might be getting a power creep in our favorite game?

A little, but it's well within reason and should be easy to manage. Ships that aren't top tier will get attention from the designers when they get the opportunity.

No. I'd say we're just getting started.

I'v played a lot of games and Xwing is probably the best in simplistic gameplay with deep nuance, balanced, and nothing that I would call power creep yet.

3 att turrets and the cloak action are the closest to power creep as I've seen and the new turrets are getting a lot of heat right now.

My last powercreep experience that ruined a game for me involved a new release from midnight the day of the event. The piece was taken en masse by a player with prior knowledge from playtesting and taking my "all comers" list that was very good against one of the then considered best lists to absolutely unplayable. He took 1st undefeated and won a bye for his efforts. Never played that game competitively again and stopped buying immediately. Game spiraled into powercreep and 2 pillars thinking immediately and I'm glad I got out.

HOPE FFG stays the course of putting the game balance and players first.

No.

This has been another issue of Short Answers to Simple Questions! Tune in next time...

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(Spoiling my own gag, here.)

No, I don't think there's a reason for concern. The X-wing has a bit of ground to make up (1-2 points), and after taking that into account the leaked stats seem to justify the leaked cost for its descendant. The descendant of the TIE fighter is reasonably close to an A-wing, and Prototype Pilots aren't exactly infesting the metagame right now. So I believe, and have reason to believe, that all will be well.

Well I would say that adding upgrades or errata to make certain pieces better is not power creep. However replacing a card/ship/piece with a stronger/cheaper one is. Now this has been toned down as the stronger one is not the cheaper one however I don't think the point increase will reflect on how much stronger it is. In all aspects the T-70 is better than the T-65 and well worth those 3 extra points for what you get.

Now this isn't the worst form or power creep all it is is replacing ships that aren't used that much (rookie pilots, knave squadron) much like blizzard is doing with their new cards although what blizzard has done is direct power creep (same cards for cheaper and/or are stronger)

The B-wing did not make the X-wing obsolete. The X-wing was costed poorly from day 1 and the B-wing simply allowed players a viable alternative. I get the point but the B-wing was not the problem, the X-wing was and still is.

And, hypothetically, if ships are improved by having a more varied and interesting dial, I'm on board with that. Putting some more focus back on pilot skill and anticipating the opponent is A-OK with me.

If you didn't have the B-wing....or had the B-wing cost more points, then the X-wing would not have dropped off as badly as it did. If anything put the X-wing under, it was the B-wing. Why bother with an X-wing when you can get the B-wing for 1 more point? FFG admitted that they priced the B-wing cheaper than they should've.

You can complain about the issues with the X-wing all day long, but if there isn't an alternative to take, what will you buy to have a 20-something ship with 3 attack dice? Take the number of points people like to say the X-wing is over-costed by and add that to the cost of every B-wing. Would it be worth taking at that point? I bet we would see more X-wings on the table.

Should they just have put out another ship that nobody would now be playing just to maintain the X-Wing's theoretical place in the game? Should the Kiraassszzsh be more expensive so that Scum players still have a use for Scyks and generic StarVipers?

the "power creep" in the new starter is going to bring back dog-fighting.
looking forward to it.

Lack of poweecreep has been covered

I'm actually more worried about not fielding FOs because the tie classic is so **** good...

After looking at both the ships that shall not be named, I don't think there is power creep. If anything, I think FFG has done an amazing job with the ships, and keeping things relevant.

I agree that these ships are going to be very powerful, but I think the generics are really expensive for what you get, and the elites are great, but you definitely pay for what you get.

The B-wing did not make the X-wing obsolete. The X-wing was costed poorly from day 1 and the B-wing simply allowed players a viable alternative. I get the point but the B-wing was not the problem, the X-wing was and still is.

And, hypothetically, if ships are improved by having a more varied and interesting dial, I'm on board with that. Putting some more focus back on pilot skill and anticipating the opponent is A-OK with me.

If you didn't have the B-wing....or had the B-wing cost more points, then the X-wing would not have dropped off as badly as it did. If anything put the X-wing under, it was the B-wing. Why bother with an X-wing when you can get the B-wing for 1 more point? FFG admitted that they priced the B-wing cheaper than they should've.

You can complain about the issues with the X-wing all day long, but if there isn't an alternative to take, what will you buy to have a 20-something ship with 3 attack dice? Take the number of points people like to say the X-wing is over-costed by and add that to the cost of every B-wing. Would it be worth taking at that point? I bet we would see more X-wings on the table.

"Undercosted relative to the X-Wing" isn't the same as "undercosted", though.

Should they just have put out another ship that nobody would now be playing just to maintain the X-Wing's theoretical place in the game? Should the Kiraassszzsh be more expensive so that Scum players still have a use for Scyks and generic StarVipers?

Nobody has a use for Scyks right now though, so that would make little difference. The things just blow up so fast, 20 points for one with a mangler just doesn't seem worth it.

Lack of poweecreep has been covered

I'm actually more worried about not fielding FOs because the tie classic is so **** good...

I'm looking forward to running stress-removal TIE2 next to a few TIE1's as a compliment to Howlrunner

ptl howlie, maverick, and 5 academies? sounds like it could be fun

I wana try mr 2-roll, though I have no idea how he fits in (21 points of PTL and call it a day?)

the PS 7 just strikes me as....bleh. Maybe if it had been just 3 guaranteed crits.

that's just the problem with being similar to A-wings in a faction with Tie Fighters. Without PTL (or super wingman) they just seem bleck, but PTL means no sexy s-loop (without super wingman)

but of course that could all change with new Nobbly Thing upgrades

We got the biggest powercreep in the game in wave 2 - with the boost action and Falcon turret.

Maybe. But back then it didn't really feel like power creep to me. Giving boost to TIE Interceptors and A-wings just felt right and it was a neat mechanic. Engine Upgrade was nice because now we could give that same mechanic to our beloved wave 1 ships if we wanted (and I always enjoyed Engine Upgrade + Daredevil on Darth Vader).

In my purely emotional and irrational sense of things, it's only power creep when you don't want to buy things anymore but you have to in order to stay competitive. Since the game was new, nobody wasn't going to buy into wave 2, so it all felt like cool new gear rather than forced power creep.

Besides, as others have mentioned, none of the wave 2 stuff prevented 8-TIE swarms from continuing to be effective.

But I'm guessing that everything I've said speaks exactly to your point -- wave 2 was the worst power creep we've seen and even that wasn't so bad.

I think I'd run a T-70 next to a B-Wing. I could see running a named one of either next to a generic of either. I could see running one with a few Z-95s. I could see running one with the Falcon.

I don't see the T-65 or the E-Wing in those roles. I wish I did.

Han/Dash + corran is a meta staple older than the most decayed dinosaur fossils

Corran has enjoyed top meta dog status for a while. I'm sure poe will join but not replace him unless 2 ships REALLY fall out of favor

Simple distinction:

Poe's thrusters + ability > multiple attacks from swarms or tlts

Corran's 3 agility + evade + double tap > high priority single targets

Of course nothing stopping you from runningbthem together (poe plays nice with r5-p9 and can let corran keep r2)

If power creep is defined by some players as "FFG brought out something new and that means I can't keep flying my favourite squad exactly the same way and now I have to adapt to a changing game environment", then yes.

Otherwise, no.

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

Your standards for comparison were all thoroughly acknowledged to be underpowered for their cost.

Lack of poweecreep has been covered

I'm actually more worried about not fielding FOs because the tie classic is so **** good...

Four hit point ships die to one shots as easily as three hit point ships do, yes it's got a better dial but it's only two attack.

Classic ties and interceptors still win for me I'm not even wowed by the aces so yeah I'm not planning on using them.

I just hope the cog turns out better.

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

Literally everything is better than the Scyk.

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

Your standards for comparison were all thoroughly acknowledged to be underpowered for their cost.

Why it might not be replacing the top of the meta ships these ships are replacing the lower end of the meta with better/cheaper ships. The power to point cost might not be at 112% but it will be higher than the E-wing, X-wing and TIE Defender. The Rookie Pilot is being replaced by power creep, not the Soontir Fel.

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

Your standards for comparison were all thoroughly acknowledged to be underpowered for their cost.

Why it might not be replacing the top of the meta ships these ships are replacing the lower end of the meta with better/cheaper ships. The power to point cost might not be at 112% but it will be higher than the E-wing, X-wing and TIE Defender. The Rookie Pilot is being replaced by power creep, not the Soontir Fel.

Four hit point ships die to one shots as easily as three hit point ships do, yes it's got a better dial but it's only two attack.

Biggest power creep in xwing has got to be Horton Salm.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090823043247/starwars/images/3/37/Salm_helmet.jpg

I'm going to throw this out there...

There's two types of powercreep. There's the standard powercreep and then there's the GW Powercreep.

X-Wing is most likely guilty of some powercreep, as over time there has been ships put into the game that are more powerful. They are for the most part still balanced, but the Phantom was decidedly a bit over the top, so are PWT's...

FFG has toned down the Phantom and is still working on PWT's which are really only a serious issue in a 60-75 minute tournament setting.

So one can say that while X-Wing has seen some powercreep, the game as a whole is still fairly well balanced.

What it has not seen is GW Powercreep, which many of us have played and when we think Powercreep that's what we think of. The type of powercreep where a new Codex comes out, and you not only have to spend $30-50 for the new book, you also know about half your army just got made obsolete and you're going to have to pay the new higher MSRP for new units to make it work again.

X-Wing has not at all suffered from that type of powercreep. The only thing that even comes remotely close was the Phantom, and not only was that fixed, it was never nearly as bad as some people thought it was in the first place.

It is power creep when the TIE/FO is better than Scyk (ok, not the same faction) and T70 is better than E-wing and X-wing (and Defender too).

Your standards for comparison were all thoroughly acknowledged to be underpowered for their cost.

Why it might not be replacing the top of the meta ships these ships are replacing the lower end of the meta with better/cheaper ships. The power to point cost might not be at 112% but it will be higher than the E-wing, X-wing and TIE Defender. The Rookie Pilot is being replaced by power creep, not the Soontir Fel.

You're objecting to there being better alternatives to bad ships that basically nobody uses?

seriously

if FFG isn't allowed to make better ships than the lowest common denominator, then we will never see any changes to competitive play

also the T-70 isn't superior to the E. It's certainly superior to the hilariously overpriced and underpowered generics, but it still suffers from being overpriced itself. I.t.O characters, Poe and Corran tackle completely different threats based on their abilities. No one is simply not strictly superior to the other.

I'm going to add to what VanorDM said, and add what I always add to these power creep threads - in a game designed to produce sales, even to include the most well designed ones, power creep is inevitable. Anyone who says there is no power creep is incorrect, but this is only a bad thing for certain types of power creep.

There are only 3 ways for a design to approach dealing with power creep:

1. Actively design it in. This makes new purchases appealing/mandatory and saves an awful lot of "balancing" headache. This is what GW does.

2. Actively attempt to balance everything equally. This is what FFG does. That said, it is impossible to design numerous different things that all have the exact same power "factor". There will be imperfections. By attempting to make them all equal, some will be a little high, some a little low, and some the same. It is just unavoidable when human beings attempt to design something.

3. To prevent any power creep, design below the current power level. Nobody does this, because nothing new would ever be purchased.

#2 is clearly the best method for the consumer. You get new interesting content, but it takes longer for things to go "obsolete". In the case of X-Wing, the FFG designers have done a great job keeping the rate of power increase extremely low. And we can see clearly that they are on design path #2. The Phantom, the B-Wing, maybe even the VT-49 (or perhaps just RAC) were some of their high misses. The Scyk, the A-Wing, Tie Advanced, some of the low misses. And many others are just about right.

The great thing about this game is that the inevitable, gradual increase in power is extremely slow, and in some cases even reined in by the designers (Cloak Change). And when things lag behind, they get a small bump back up (Advanced, A-Wing, X-Wing fix on the way, and numerous other small tweaks that weren't so directly obvious).

So yes, there is power creep. No, it is not a terrible thing, just an inevitable one. This game design is being executed by the FFG team extremely well, and I am sure they will continue to do so.