I was looking through Kerrie Dougherty's "Star Wars: complete vehicles" for painting ideas and I came upon this in the description of the Nebulon B Medial Frigate (pg. 171): "the Alliance's hospital ship Redemption is a converted EF76 Nebulon B Imperial escort frigate, which originally featured 12 turbolaser batteries, 12 laser cannon, and hangers for two squadrons of Tie Fighters." Later: " Kuat Drive Yards produced Nebulon B frigates for the Imperial Navy, which used the vessals to escort Imperial supply convoys across hyperspace lanes." "Several Nebulon Bs have defectedto or been captured by the rebels."

There is also a supporting article on Wookiepedia: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/EF76_Nebulon-B_escort_frigate

First point: Shouldn't the Imperial player be able to purchase Nebulon Bs (or at least something similar)? Maybe the rebels upped the guns, but there should be something.

Second point: Shouldn't there be a ship card/rules for the medical frigate (and other similar hospital craft). Maybe a scenario card about either protecting the medical frigate (rebels) or destroying the medical frigate (imps)?

Third point: Thinking upon the game and the SW universe, it seems that it takes a huge page from Age of Sail battles (batteries, ramming, collisions, etc) yet there are not any rules for boarding party combat (which while rare in the real world)- seem to be provided for in most Age of Sail rules and even space combat- thinking of Star Fleet Battles. It would seem that you could use assault shuttles (a use for the Lambda shuttles) to transport assault troops to a disabled ship/base station). Having boarding party combat (even specific scenarios- thinking capture of Princess Leia in IV)- would provide a new dimension in the game.

Just a few thoughts.

There are Imperial versions of the card available created by the community. Look for DA's custom cards post. The group is also working on boarding for those that want to try it.

1) Perhaps.

But the Perhaps is caveated by wether it is still -Canon- to be that way, or not... Even so, they were never SHOWN to be Imperial in the Original Trilogy, and that seem to be the #1 basis for Canonicity at the moment.

2) Perhaps in time. At the moment, no - Armada has released with somewhat 'iconic' designs... The medical Frigate may just be a Support Refit, anyway.


3) Maybe we'll get them in the future - At the moment, right now, we're dealing still with Initial Release. The other side of that, is that Boarding Actions take a lot of time - quite probably more time than what is reflected in the quick engagement we play - although, that being said, its difficult to see how much time actually takes place.

I could be wrong but I think that in the EU most Neb Bs were captured or defected only leaving a few in Imperial service.

To be honest, I would very much prefer if no ship was shared between the factions (except a third "Scum" faction later down the road), in order to have a more diverse playing field. I love pitting my Rebel fleet against Star Destroyers, and I'll look more for iconic battles over a realistic setting within the EU (but that's just me ).

EDIT : The Medical Frigate is indeed a Support Refit. Check the Wookieepedia Page for Redemption and they'll say very clearly that they reduced the Hangar Space to accomodate Bacta Tanks as well as removed guns for more medical bays. It's the paramount support refit

First point: Shouldn't the Imperial player be able to purchase Nebulon Bs (or at least something similar)? Maybe the rebels upped the guns, but there should be something.

Second point: Shouldn't there be a ship card/rules for the medical frigate (and other similar hospital craft).

I'm not a big fan of the word "should". The game is what it is, delicately balanced for competitive play. Strict adherence to the extensive (and often inconsistent) lore is not a priority for FFG. This is not a traditional 70s or 80s scenario-based wargame.

Having said that, there's plenty of room for house rules and custom units and scenarios, if that's what you and your group enjoy. If it helps:

and:

I also thought I should add that it is a civil war and obviously ships from the other side will end up in enemy hands. Doing so in games will disrupt the normal flow of things, however it may provide for some interesting games.

Diablo on competitive play: Again, as an old SFB player, I see this games less as a tournament/competition than as a simulation where I get to command a SW space fleet (therefore fights to the death and ignore the 6 turn rule). Not saying one is better than the other, just that I focus less on the tourney/tiger mentality. Since as you say FFG doesn't have a "strict adherence" to lore- then anything is possible and can be rationilzed, especially in one as so fragmented as a SW universe.

MoffZen: yes, the medical frigate was a refit but did really see the "fighting version" of the Nebulon B in any of the movies? In RotJ Antilles says that the Imperials were "heading for the medical frigate" (Why would the rebels have their medical frigate anywhere near the battle line?- I assume that the Geneva convention is not in effect in the SW universe!) The Nebulon B and maybe the Correlian CR 90s seems to be the only "canon" ship that the Imperials could use which makes sense since the early rebel forces didn't have any shipyards to make new fighting ships and had to rely on captured/mutinied Imperial ships- which would mean that the Imperials should also have access to these ships as well.

As far as play balance, we could assume that the rebels modified and upgunned there Nebs and CR90s to fit their needs so the Imperials could be weaker.

The rules are really recent, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any flexibility and expansion-ability in future publications or rules.

^{Wes- how would it "upset the normal flow of things?" Plus the fact that in tourneys you have Rebel vs Rebel. Except for a few oddities, an Imperial ships works the same way as a rebel ship and as long as they are pointed correctly (and how are those points determined anyway?) things would be fine. It would not be like these would be killer Imperial units. Wouldn't a tournament list of all fighters or all ships be even more unbalanced to the flow of a game?}

Believe me, I'm all for custom scenarios and a wider choice of "canon" units. The competitive vibe doesn't resonate with me and I don't intend to ever play in a tournament. So, except where the 6-round limit is concerned, I suppose I'm on your boat .

...but I respect FFG's design for what it is, and I make it my own responsibility to adapt it to my liking. I don't have a say in what the game "should" be, only in how I would like to play it.

Again, my view is tempered with my experience with Star Fleet Battles, where each race (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, Kzinti, etc...) have a huge number of ship types to play around with (Battleships, Frigates, escort frigates, assault frigates, destroyers, and many flavors of fighters). And each race with their own flavor of main weapons. Makes for a complicated game (and I enjoy the simplicity of Armada when compared to SFB). It just seems that the SW universe should offer a large range of ships and ship missions plus possibilities.

Considering at the time SFB was created in the 1980s, the Star Trek canon universe was pretty flimsy as well.

Again, my view is tempered with my experience with Star Fleet Battles, where each race (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, Kzinti, etc...) have a huge number of ship types to play around with (Battleships, Frigates, escort frigates, assault frigates, destroyers, and many flavors of fighters). And each race with their own flavor of main weapons. Makes for a complicated game (and I enjoy the simplicity of Armada when compared to SFB). It just seems that the SW universe should offer a large range of ships and ship missions plus possibilities.

Considering at the time SFB was created in the 1980s, the Star Trek canon universe was pretty flimsy as well.

This is only a failing of the fact that SFB has had a long time to mature, and we still havn't seen the -Second- Wave of Releases for Armada...

Give it time, and it will evolve into what you want it to be, it seems like... Its just, for right now, you're going to be friends with people like DiabloAzul (and Wes Janson), to get the breadth you're after.

The normal flow I was talking about is that not all people in a gaming community will ever accept the decision to allow custom and or other faction ships to be used outside of their parent faction. Some people are unable to bend even for practical suggestions.

Are you saying you won't be my friend later?

I'm mostly commenting because I see Armada needing time to Mature - it is very new, and for whatever reason, the wave releases are taking time.

And on the topic of customs, well, I've been trying for 6 weeks now to scrape enough cash together to even get a second Imperial Squadron pack, and am still short, so ordering anything and paying the shipping to Canada is just... :/

The thing is, FFG have chosen to develop a serious, well-balanced competitive game fit for tournament play. That's a tall order, and they're doing great so far (whereas none of the traditional wargames came even close), but to keep it like that they need to add new material slowly and very carefully.

So just don't expect them to give you what you want in the short term, because it just won't happen - their design goals and priorities are different from yours.

However, like we've pointed out, it is possible, even today, to play the game "freeform" with a huge variety of ships and squadrons. But you need to go into customs. Check out Mel's and Utar's Armada-scale miniatures, and Wes' and my cards for said miniatures. It's all there for you. Playtested to FFG's standards? Hell no. But obviously perfect competitive balance isn't your priority, so go ahead and have fun -- and give us some feedback!

Wes- I will be your friend anytime!

I understand of FFG to carefully design the Armada materials (plus the problem that you have a game driven by miniatures with rules, rather than rules then miniatures). I just think that there is time, and excellent and intelligent commentators to discuss in this open forum ways to better expand and improve the Armada game concept. Perhaps even someone from FFG design might look and listen. If they don't like what is said and don't use the material/comments, all that has been wasted is a few electrons.

Diablo- very nice miniatures and additions. I hope to try them out sometime.

Diablo on competitive play: Again, as an old SFB player, I see this games less as a tournament/competition than as a simulation where I get to command a SW space fleet (therefore fights to the death and ignore the 6 turn rule). Not saying one is better than the other, just that I focus less on the tourney/tiger mentality. Since as you say FFG doesn't have a "strict adherence" to lore- then anything is possible and can be rationilzed, especially in one as so fragmented as a SW universe.

MoffZen: yes, the medical frigate was a refit but did really see the "fighting version" of the Nebulon B in any of the movies? In RotJ Antilles says that the Imperials were "heading for the medical frigate" (Why would the rebels have their medical frigate anywhere near the battle line?- I assume that the Geneva convention is not in effect in the SW universe!) The Nebulon B and maybe the Correlian CR 90s seems to be the only "canon" ship that the Imperials could use which makes sense since the early rebel forces didn't have any shipyards to make new fighting ships and had to rely on captured/mutinied Imperial ships- which would mean that the Imperials should also have access to these ships as well.

As far as play balance, we could assume that the rebels modified and upgunned there Nebs and CR90s to fit their needs so the Imperials could be weaker.

The rules are really recent, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any flexibility and expansion-ability in future publications or rules.

In the new canon there are apparently outlaw shipyards willing to build capital ships for Rebel cells within a few years of the Empire rising so not all of their early capships were former Imperial ones. We also don't know when or if they gained control of a major shipyard in the new canon.

And I believe the Nebulon-B we saw trading broadsides with a Star Destroyer over Endor was the combat version rather then the medical frigate.

Well as long as somebody likes me. I am going to grab a Munificent Class and get her all painted up for my Rebel side. It was that or a Venator, and currently there are enough cheese wedges flying about lol.