I don't really want to buy a new Core Set, because I hate buying sets that contain ships I don't want(and have no interest in owning an X-Wing).

Whether I bought one WAS going to depend on whether the Expansion Pack had different pilots or not. But if the Deck is a new requirement, then I don't really have a choice.

FFG has never done anything like this in the history of this game. I don't see them starting now. The new deck will be optional or will come with the cards it needs to make a standard tournament legal damage deck. There are only a few cards that are different and I noticed they are numbered now. Why? One reason could be to easily replace EP VII cards with the standard damage cards when playing in organized games.

Would it be good or bad if FFG implements a system where you and your opponent exchange damage decks? So you're not picking a damage deck for yourself, but instead picking what your opponent gets to play with. It'll be your call if you want to hand a TIE Swarm an Injured Pilot/Munitions Failure deck.

It would likely be a deck of nothing but direct hits. Besides the potential for decks getting lost in the shuffle due to the exchange is jut so numerous. Netrunner only has a small exchange and players have said they have forgotten or lost cards all the time. Some were recovered the same day others well, another booster pack had to be bought (something you don't usually want to do with LCGs)

Everyone is assuming the new damage deck will be the only one legal even though the rules say if you have both use the new one. Until we hear something official likely next Thursday during the big reveal we don't know that. I expect both will be legal for a while.

Even so why the big fuss?

I find it hard to believe that if someone plays competitively, they won't buy the new core set anyway.

Why would a competitive Scum (and maybe Empire, I don't really see the new TIEs replacing RAC/Fel or RAC/Vader any time soon) buy the new core anyway if they didn't have to?

Everyone is assuming the new damage deck will be the only one legal even though the rules say if you have both use the new one. Until we hear something official likely next Thursday during the big reveal we don't know that. I expect both will be legal for a while.

Even so why the big fuss?

I find it hard to believe that if someone plays competitively, they won't buy the new core set anyway.

Why would a competitive Scum (and maybe Empire, I don't really see the new TIEs replacing RAC/Fel or RAC/Vader any time soon) buy the new core anyway if they didn't have to?

The new set is a much bigger deal for Rebel players than it is anyone else. Wired is a must have card for rebel players, it shines on A-Wings and on Jan Ors. For Scum, the card might find a home on Dace Bonearm but that doesn't seem too likely since he'll probably have already shot and may have been shot at before he uses his ability in a round. The Imperials could put it on a Firespray with Fleet Officer for a support ship that doesn't suffer too much from stressing itself, its a shame that Kath is the cheapest one with an EPT. The new TIEs do present some new options and look like they'll be a solid ship but there isn't really a lot for Scum and Imperials to be excited about.

Everyone is assuming the new damage deck will be the only one legal even though the rules say if you have both use the new one. Until we hear something official likely next Thursday during the big reveal we don't know that. I expect both will be legal for a while.

Even so why the big fuss?

I find it hard to believe that if someone plays competitively, they won't buy the new core set anyway.

It effects more than competitive players who are after all the minority in any game, say a new player starts going to a club only has the new deck and is facing vets using the old it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Gamers want clear rules so it levels the playing field as much as possible.

If the new decks optional it won't get used, if it's the new norm and its not sold separately your gonna annoy some people that have no interest in episode VII.

You mean, the same people who had no interest in EU ships, but bought them anyway?

it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Then they do what the standard rules say and share a single deck between them.

it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Then they do what the standard rules say and share a single deck between them.

You can't share damage decks. Competitive rules say that each player must bring their own damage decks.

If you want to play competitive you either buy the Disney endorsed episode 7 core set or you don't play in competitive format at all. (unless FFG has made an alternative for those that already got 1st edition but nothing has shows us that there are any.)

Everyone is assuming the new damage deck will be the only one legal even though the rules say if you have both use the new one. Until we hear something official likely next Thursday during the big reveal we don't know that. I expect both will be legal for a while.

Even so why the big fuss?

I find it hard to believe that if someone plays competitively, they won't buy the new core set anyway.

It effects more than competitive players who are after all the minority in any game, say a new player starts going to a club only has the new deck and is facing vets using the old it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Gamers want clear rules so it levels the playing field as much as possible.

If the new decks optional it won't get used, if it's the new norm and its not sold separately your gonna annoy some people that have no interest in episode VII.

Which damage deck you prefer is really going to depend on your list. If you are running Soontir or Fat Han you'll probably want the new deck. If you are running something like BBBBZ you'll probably prefer the old one.

Competitive rules say that each player must bring their own damage decks.

Yes, and I have said as much a ton of times now already. Please try to keep up.

If you want to play competitively you may need the new damage deck. How exactly you'll get it is unknown at this time. FFG can't even talk about the new deck so we have no way of knowing if you'll need it, and if you do what our options will be to get it.

It may be that you'll have to buy the new core set, or maybe they'll have some other way of getting it as well.

If you want to play competitively in sanctioned events, and doing so requires you to buy a new core set, frankly I don't consider that a problem. Competitive players should expect to have to lay out some cash from time to time.

You can still play friendly games, which was the situation I was responding to in the post you quoted. The whole point of my post which you apparently didn't get the context behind, was about non-tournament players.

it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Then they do what the standard rules say and share a single deck between them.

You can't share damage decks. Competitive rules say that each player must bring their own damage decks.

If you want to play competitive you either buy the Disney endorsed episode 7 core set or you don't play in competitive format at all. (unless FFG has made an alternative for those that already got 1st edition but nothing has shows us that there are any.)

Would you please just stop until this is all official. You are just spreading rumours and assumptions. It may very well be both are legal and become another level of list building.

it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Then they do what the standard rules say and share a single deck between them.

You can't share damage decks. Competitive rules say that each player must bring their own damage decks.

If you want to play competitive you either buy the Disney endorsed episode 7 core set or you don't play in competitive format at all. (unless FFG has made an alternative for those that already got 1st edition but nothing has shows us that there are any.)

Would you please just stop until this is all official. You are just spreading rumours and assumptions. It may very well be both are legal and become another level of list building.

the whole POINT of this thread assumes that the new deck will be required for official events. Yes, its speculative but thats why we're discussing it.

Everyone is assuming the new damage deck will be the only one legal even though the rules say if you have both use the new one. Until we hear something official likely next Thursday during the big reveal we don't know that. I expect both will be legal for a while.

Even so why the big fuss?

I find it hard to believe that if someone plays competitively, they won't buy the new core set anyway.

It effects more than competitive players who are after all the minority in any game, say a new player starts going to a club only has the new deck and is facing vets using the old it's not really gonna be fair is it?

Gamers want clear rules so it levels the playing field as much as possible.

If the new decks optional it won't get used, if it's the new norm and its not sold separately your gonna annoy some people that have no interest in episode VII.

I don't get this at all. You don't want Ep7 ships but are totally cool with the K-Wing and Punisher? Really? The ep7 ships at least make some sense. The K-Wing looks ridiculous. But I like X-Wing and bought 2.

I don't see the problem at all. We are getting new ships and as an added bonus, new Damage deck, which needed to be updated.

Casual players will use whatever. They are casual. The very definition being that they will play what they like and what feels fair. If you don't have an ep7 Deck I don't see the problem with you using and old one. Pretty sure that's a safe conclusion. Is that unreasonable?

Obviously if it is a competitive event, then alright, you will probably need the ep7 deck. But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this? I doubt it, unless money is an issue.

You mean, the same people who had no interest in EU ships, but bought them anyway?

Seriously, agree 100%.

Gamers are the most difficult group in the world. They want a new damage deck because the old one has some age issues, but don't want to buy the box with new ships and the deck because some of the stuff may be a waste.What the hell do you want FFG to do? Give it away for free?

Can you all elaborate on what you want? Because I think hidden behind this "I just don't want to have to buy ep7/stuff I don't want" crap you have horrendously unrealistic expectations. Its easy to bad-mouth what is happening, but I haven't seen anything about what you DO want. I expect this is because you know that when you say it out loud it will sound ridiculous.

I think this boxed set/update make so much sense at this point, and I will happily pay the money to have it, likely several times over. While I would happily take it for free, I would much rather FFG keep up the good work and stay in business.

Here's my issue...

While I can understand someone not wanting to spend $25-40 on a box in which the only thing that they want is the damage deck might have issues the arguments are either getting far fetched, moving the goalposts, or just out and out ignoring other peoples post.

Fact: we don't know if these will be required at all, and we don't know if there will be other methods of getting a new damage deck.

But people are complaining about needing them for tournament play. Well to be frank, that's your problem. If you plan on taking part in tournaments, you already have spent money on ships you don't want just for the upgrade cards. No one who takes tournaments seriously hasn't, because you need things like PtL, Autothrusters, Crackshot, stealth device, and a number of other cards.

Even if that weren't true. That's the nature of competitive play, you're going to be expected to spend money non-tournament types don't have to spend.

Plus that if you play in tournaments, you should be glad to see the new deck become the standard because it will make the game much more fair to everyone.

So now we start talking about the casual players. Which as I pointed out don't actually need the new damage deck. If you're playing casual games then you have the option of either using which ever deck you have, or simply play by the standard rules and share a deck.

So, even if there is no other way to get the new damage deck, then only official sanctioned tournaments are really an issue here. After all there can be tournaments that don't require the new deck, even if the official ones do.

So, the subsection of players who are truly forced to buy a new core set, are those who play in officially sanctioned events, such as store championships and beyond, and also would have no use for the new ships. That is going to be a fairly small number of people over all.

For that small group of people, I hope that FFG comes up with something that helps, but if you're forced to buy a core set then that is really due to your own preference on how and where to play.

IG-88s and Howlrunner (and anyone else who was desperate enough to run Determination just to not have that 2/33 chance to lose their pilot ability and scupper their entire strategy) all love the new deck.

But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this?

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set? It gives them almost nothing usable in a competitive environment unless you want to do God knows what gimmick squad.

But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this?

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set? It gives them almost nothing usable in a competitive environment unless you want to do God knows what gimmick squad.

They would want it to get the new damage deck surely?

But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this?

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set? It gives them almost nothing usable in a competitive environment unless you want to do God knows what gimmick squad.

The EPT is going to be sweet on YV-666 and others. The new large asteroid options so you can field 3 large against dash, chewie, and decimator will be excellent. The damage deck, while loosing some of its teeth, will benefit most lists you run in the long run.

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set?

You seem to assume that the new TIE won't be competitive. Which makes your argument rather shaky at best.

Now I can agree that someone who plays S&V exclusively would get little of value in a new core, but the Imperial players are getting two new and possibly quite nice TIES.

But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this?

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set? It gives them almost nothing usable in a competitive environment unless you want to do God knows what gimmick squad.

The EPT is going to be sweet on YV-666 and others. The new large asteroid options so you can field 3 large against dash, chewie, and decimator will be excellent. The damage deck, while loosing some of its teeth, will benefit most lists you run in the long run.

I meant beyond the damage deck. Wasn't this the main issue being discussed (that in order to get the damage deck you have to buy the whole core set, even if the rest is useless for you) ?

Point taken on the asteroids, they might be useful.

Scum: Even if the EPT will be sweet on some Scum ships, it's still not sweet enough to bring anything Scum in the same league as Brobots (which based on regional results as well as my own experience are by far the best squad Scum can field).

Imperial: I hope I'm wrong (the game could use more diversity), but I don't really see what exactly do these TIEs have that would make a squad including them worth taking to a tournament instead of RAC/Fel or RAC/post-Raider Vader.

EDIT: unless Wave 7 shakes the meta enough that two ship lists are no longer the norm that is. but as it stands right now, I don't see a squad with the new TIEs faring too well against most of the currently dominant 2 ship builds

EDIT: unless Wave 7 shakes the meta enough that two ship lists are no longer the norm that is. but as it stands right now, I don't see a squad with the new TIEs faring too well against most of the currently dominant 2 ship builds

I've been running a tie swarm (plus lambda) vs 2 ship builds fir a while now. It does great (swarms are the counter to fat turrets) and there are definitely some FO tie pilots I would like to run. Particularly the stress relieving one. 1 of the upgrades (2 for the FO ties) look pretty good for imps as well.

EDIT: unless Wave 7 shakes the meta enough that two ship lists are no longer the norm that is. but as it stands right now, I don't see a squad with the new TIEs faring too well against most of the currently dominant 2 ship builds

I've been running a tie swarm (plus lambda) vs 2 ship builds fir a while now. It does great (swarms are the counter to fat turrets) and there are definitely some FO tie pilots I would like to run. Particularly the stress relieving one. 1 of the upgrades (2 for the FO ties) look pretty good for imps as well.

Swarms however, from my experience (and given how few swarms you see in regional top 8s vs. how many fat turrets other people's experience too) do murder fat turrets, but seem to do quite poorly vs. the ace that usually accompanies the fat turret.

It's difficult to kill a Soontir/Phantom/Corran with a bunch of 2 dice attacks. I've run Xizor and 5 Z-95s extensively vs. 2 ship builds and usually if Xizor died, 3-4 Z-95 could not handle a single ace (TIEs I inagine fare even worse as they lack Target Lock).

You can add to that the fact that a swarm moves slower (so your chances of ending a game at time rather than all ships destroyed increase), bleeds points (thus hurting your MOV) and , at least to me, moving 5-6 ships is a lot more taxing over 4-5 games than moving 2, one of which has a turret. In order to compensate for that and be a viable contender a swarm should do significantly better than in currently does on the table IMO.

Swarms however, ...

seem to do quite poorly vs. the ace that usually accompanies the fat turret.

I don't KNOW that any of the new TIEs will improve the list (or any list). But a couple of them certainly look interesting and, as an almost exclusively imperial player, I am anxious to try them out.

Edit: oh, and the 2 ship meta is definitely on the way out. I'm seriously concerned that they may have countered fat turrets too much and we're going to stop seeing any large ships altogether.

Imperial: I hope I'm wrong (the game could use more diversity)

I quite simply can't see how any Imperial player is going to pass up on the new Ties. Even if they aren't super competitive, and we have no way of knowing if they will or not yet. We only know what the core set ones look like, we don't know what the expansion pack will hold...

But even if they're not, that doesn't mean Imperial players won't want them. The only people who would get little to no value out of a new core set are S&V only players.

The new large asteroid options so you can field 3 large against dash, chewie, and decimator will be excellent.

Wouldn't Dash benefit from large obstacles?

The new large asteroid options so you can field 3 large against dash, chewie, and decimator will be excellent.

Wouldn't Dash benefit from large obstacles?

Dash prefers debris so he can still shoot. Large rocks are more area of the map he can't shoot from.