Imperial: I hope I'm wrong (the game could use more diversity)

I quite simply can't see how any Imperial player is going to pass up on the new Ties. Even if they aren't super competitive, and we have no way of knowing if they will or not yet. We only know what the core set ones look like, we don't know what the expansion pack will hold...

But even if they're not, that doesn't mean Imperial players won't want them. The only people who would get little to no value out of a new core set are S&V only players.

What I wrote was in reply to 'But are there really competitive players out there that aren't going to buy this?'.

'It's not competitive' is a pretty valid reason for a competitive Imperial player to not want a ship, don't you think ?

Even competitive aside, I'm pretty sure at least some Imperial players won't want them because:

-they will hate Ep. VII (no matter how good or bad the movie it will be, some people will not like it).

-they find the white side panels an unnecessary departure from traditional Imperial aesthetics. At least two of the Imperial players in my area plan to repaint them to a more traditional Imperial color scheme and/or run old TIEs on the pegs with the new cards and dials.

EDIT: unless Wave 7 shakes the meta enough that two ship lists are no longer the norm that is. but as it stands right now, I don't see a squad with the new TIEs faring too well against most of the currently dominant 2 ship builds

I've been running a tie swarm (plus lambda) vs 2 ship builds fir a while now. It does great (swarms are the counter to fat turrets) and there are definitely some FO tie pilots I would like to run. Particularly the stress relieving one. 1 of the upgrades (2 for the FO ties) look pretty good for imps as well.

Brobots would seem to eat up a swarm though. If the IGs engage at range 3 it isn't that unlikely that they'll drop 2 TIEs in the first round while taking no return damage. In my area there are enough Brobots that if you can't do well against them you aren't likely to make the cut.

they will hate Ep. VII

So? That doesn't mean they won't want the ship. Also no, even if they aren't competitive that doesn't mean a competitive player won't want them. They may want them because they love the movie, or just because they offer something new to the game.

Sure you can come up with a ton of theoretical reasons why someone won't want the new TIES, but IMO the number of people who match that theory will be pretty small.

Also the fact that a few people may be forced to buy something they don't want for the sake of competitive play is again IMO not that big of a burden, at least not compared to the benefits everyone will get from the new damage deck.

Also the fact that a few people may be forced to buy something they don't want for the sake of competitive play is again IMO not that big of a burden, at least not compared to the benefits everyone will get from the new damage deck.

But FFG has NEVER run X-wing in this manor. I know a few players that have bought the core and some Wave 1 stuff and then just stopped. They come to tournaments from time to time and still have fun. I have several casual friends that only buy the ships they like and also come to local store tournaments. That's what is so great about this game. Other than the Core, FFG has never forced the players to buy anything to continue to play.

Other than the Core, FFG has never forced the players to buy anything to continue to play.

Sure, and my hope is that stays true. But just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't ever happen. As I said before, Frank and/or Alex said they'd like to update the damage deck, but there wasn't a good way to do it.

A new core set would be a good way to do it. They may also offer the new damage deck for sale on their web store, or hand them out at tournaments for free. They may not make them required, and you can use either one. They may change the rules and have people share a deck. Or they may make the new damage deck required, and the only way to get it is via a new core set.

But even in that worse case, I just don't think it's that big of a deal, not compared to the benefit of having a much more fair crit deck.

That it such non argument.

It been 3 years and a frak tonne of expansion packs later, refreshing the game is a good idea, bringing all the rules in TK a consolidated book is a good idea (I wonder if they will include the wave 8 stuff? ) A new damage deck is a good idea.

Saying "FFG have never done this with x-wing" is just a stupid when its only been 3 years and the fact that they have never done it is the exact reason why they need to.

they will hate Ep. VII

So? That doesn't mean they won't want the ship. Also no, even if they aren't competitive that doesn't mean a competitive player won't want them. They may want them because they love the movie, or just because they offer something new to the game.

Sure you can come up with a ton of theoretical reasons why someone won't want the new TIES, but IMO the number of people who match that theory will be pretty small.

Also the fact that a few people may be forced to buy something they don't want for the sake of competitive play is again IMO not that big of a burden, at least not compared to the benefits everyone will get from the new damage deck.

Nobody argued this is something that will majorly affect a majority of the players, nor that it was a huge deal.

All I'm saying is that for some of us buying the new core set will equal buying a damage deck for a rather steep price because we don't want, need or downright can't use anything else in the core set.

Other than the Core, FFG has never forced the players to buy anything to continue to play.

Sure, and my hope is that stays true. But just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't ever happen. As I said before, Frank and/or Alex said they'd like to update the damage deck, but there wasn't a good way to do it.

A new core set would be a good way to do it. They may also offer the new damage deck for sale on their web store, or hand them out at tournaments for free. They may not make them required, and you can use either one. They may change the rules and have people share a deck. Or they may make the new damage deck required, and the only way to get it is via a new core set.

But even in that worse case, I just don't think it's that big of a deal, not compared to the benefit of having a much more fair crit deck.

I honestly think a lot of people are jumping the gun. I don't see FFG breaking precedence here. The new damage deck will be optional. I also think this is why the cards are numbered. A TO will easily be able to tell if a player has mixed the two decks to create a "softer" damage deck. X-wing is built on a friendly and relaxed model. It's what drew me into the game, and continues to draw many others. In the past, anything that we the players considered a "forced buy", we've pitched a hissy fit over, and FFG has reneged. (The Rebel/Scum dials for the Z95s comes to mind.)

Just buy the core set and sell the 3 ships and the EPT's. Probably end up getting the deck for free.

Or buy a damage decknon e-bay.

All I'm saying is that for some of us buying the new core set will equal buying a damage deck for a rather steep price because we don't want, need or downright can't use anything else in the core set.

And for that reason as I've said, I hope FFG does something so you don't have to spend $25-40 on a damage deck.

I've been running a tie swarm (plus lambda) vs 2 ship builds fir a while now. It does great (swarms are the counter to fat turrets)

Brobots would seem to eat up a swarm though.

Brobots can certainly give me problems. There are only 2 Brobots players at my local store and the both give me more of a challenge than just about anything except my friends mangler scyk swarm, but neither one of them are particularly good players yet (they both just started). One of them is improving rapidly though. I definitely need to shake things up soon.

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set?

You seem to assume that the new TIE won't be competitive. Which makes your argument rather shaky at best.Now I can agree that someone who plays S&V exclusively would get little of value in a new core, but the Imperial players are getting two new and possibly quite nice TIES.

The new ties have wowed no one I don't recall a single thread where anyone's talking about their uses its all been about the t-70.

It won't replace classic ties, it won't replace interceptors, the only ship it's in competition with is the TAP and if it's the fo or the TAP then the later wins on boost alone.

The new ties are garbage the only side to benefit from the core are rebels.

I'm pretty high on the new TIE/FO; target locks, super wing man, s-loops, a shield for crying out loud.

I'm planning my purchases for a 6 TIE swarm because people having to deal with my shenanigans after switching to the two ship meta will throw people for a loop. Pun partially intended.

I think people aren't discus ing it because it lacks the initial 12point per ship shine, but after looking at its stats, action bar, and dial, I'm very much looking forward to putting that build down on the table.

I very much look forward to official release day so we can hopefully have some concrete info on what's going to happen re the damage deck.

Yes it will be nice to have a new deck but it will suck for for all of us if we must have it and it only comes with the new starter.

It will affect all tourney players.

Why?

For what ever reason someone can't get the new then they can't compete meaning less people at tourneys.

That would be bad for us and FFG

I have asked it once before: why would a competitive Scum or Empire player want this new set?

You seem to assume that the new TIE won't be competitive. Which makes your argument rather shaky at best.Now I can agree that someone who plays S&V exclusively would get little of value in a new core, but the Imperial players are getting two new and possibly quite nice TIES.

The new ties have wowed no one I don't recall a single thread where anyone's talking about their uses its all been about the t-70.

It won't replace classic ties, it won't replace interceptors, the only ship it's in competition with is the TAP and if it's the fo or the TAP then the later wins on boost alone.

The new ties are garbage the only side to benefit from the core are rebels.

Don't you think your being a little too harsh on the TIE/JJ

It has a s-loop I believe. Could be a handy wee ship

And if you don't like the white panels (nor do I) its nothing paint can't fix!

Now the JJ-X-wing is another story, no amount of paint can help that

No I honestly don't and let's face it sloop hasn't made the starvipers rule the meta has it?

TL on two dice is pretty worthless you get the same amount of damage from taking a focus and you can use it on defence.

It's too expensive to mini swarm with, if you just want a blocker original ties still do that best.

No one puts hull upgrades on ties even though that's been an option forever and for good reason.

And the aces with upgrades are in direct competition with named advanced pilots and I know i'll be taking the advanced every time in that situation.

In isolation it's a decent fighter but when you compare it to options I already own there's no place for it in my collection.

Do you think in the original star wars that made the ships to look like realistically designed space ships?

They made them to look cool and then some utterly unbelievable nerds explained want all the little nubbins and gubbins were in in depth and completely made up documents.

The T-70 looks super cool, if you don't think it does fine, but if you are going to bang on about how it's design makes no sense then just wait until the same nerds make the new documents for the new ships.

As for the Tie paint job, i kind of feel like people are being utterly ridiculous precious about 2 1/2 descent-ish films, for some really oddly fanatical reasons.

Just buy the core set and sell the 3 ships and the EPT's. Probably end up getting the deck for free.

Or buy a damage decknon e-bay.

I think there should at least be an option to buy the damage deck and any other necessary components separate from having to buy an additional core set. Sure most of us will get the 2nd edition core set anyways but what are we going to do with everything from the first edition core sets? What if someone doesn't like anything from Episode 7 and doesn't want to fly the T-70 X-wings or the TIE-FO TIE Fighter? not to mention that people who are thinking about starting the game for the first time we have to tell them that their core set will soon be obsolete and they will have to purchase the 2nd edition?

Mandated purchases will always bring back a negative reaction from the consumers. Now having a more affordable option in conjunction with the mandated updates would be the best way of handling this.

I really don't think that buying a new core set is a big deal for most of the tournament players, how many of us bought star vipers just to get the authothrusters? How many people bought a YT-2400 to get lone wolf and experimental upgrade? Engine upgrade? If all you want is the damage deck there will be some for sale on Ebay. I already have 8 Tie/LN and I plan on getting at least the core and the single Tie/FO expansion for the new pilots. Where I will be worried is if the tie fighters models are the exact same but have a different paint scheme, then there will be little to no value added in the models themselves, which would upset me.

The best way that FFG could help the player base is to give ~ $3 discount (limited to one per customer) for the new core set when players turn in a Proof of Purchase token from the original core set.

I really don't think that buying a new core set is a big deal for most of the tournament players, how many of us bought star vipers just to get the authothrusters? How many people bought a YT-2400 to get lone wolf and experimental upgrade? Engine upgrade? If all you want is the damage deck there will be some for sale on Ebay. I already have 8 Tie/LN and I plan on getting at least the core and the single Tie/FO expansion for the new pilots. Where I will be worried is if the tie fighters models are the exact same but have a different paint scheme, then there will be little to no value added in the models themselves, which would upset me.

The best way that FFG could help the player base is to give ~ $3 discount (limited to one per customer) for the new core set when players turn in a Proof of Purchase token from the original core set.

It's an option. I already have two but even if they accept no more than 1 I would be okay for that would be better other than here is the $40 mandated purchase to continue to play in our events.

$3 ?

I'll give you fraking $3 if you stop moaning about it. What's your pay pal?

As for the Tie paint job, i kind of feel like people are being utterly ridiculous precious about 2 1/2 descent-ish films, for some really oddly fanatical reasons.

Pretty much all Empire ships have had an unitary color scheme and now we get something completely different. It has nothing to do with the movies themselves, I just don't feel black and white TIEs fit in alongside gray abd black ones.

As for the Tie paint job, i kind of feel like people are being utterly ridiculous precious about 2 1/2 descent-ish films, for some really oddly fanatical reasons.

Pretty much all Empire ships have had an unitary color scheme and now we get something completely different. It has nothing to do with the movies themselves, I just don't feel black and white TIEs fit in alongside gray abd black ones.

OK I see what you mean, re the unified table scheme but I think they'll fly well along side a Lambda.

These aren't the empire though, some sort of remnant that are sith fanatics or such so in movie terms i am fine with the paint job.