So, according to raw if you fire into melee you upgrade the check once and upon a Despair you hit your friend instead.

Now, if that character has Reflect, can he reduce damage before soak as normal?

Based on my reading, reflect is available on incoming ranged damage. If this happened at my table, I would say "yes, you can reflect the shot your buddy just hit you with."

But if you extend that argument through its logical next step - i.e. Improved Reflect - you get a situation where your friend's Despair lets you deflect the shot into an enemy. Which means that the Despair just turned pretty favourable for your side, which isn't what it's meant to do. Of course you can always allow Reflect but disallow the Improved version, but that could lead to some drawn-out arguments in the middle of combat.

If this happened at my table I would probably change the effects of the Despair around a little. Instead of directly hitting (and damaging) the Jedi, it could knock him off balance and give a couple of setback dice, or damage some of his equipment (even his lightsaber) or something else unpleasant - it was a Despair, after all.

The deflected friendly fire sounds a whole lot like Triumphant Despair to me, it's in interesting thought though about essentially turning a despair into a positive.

But if you extend that argument through its logical next step - i.e. Improved Reflect - you get a situation where your friend's Despair lets you deflect the shot into an enemy. Which means that the Despair just turned pretty favourable for your side, which isn't what it's meant to do. Of course you can always allow Reflect but disallow the Improved version, but that could lead to some drawn-out arguments in the middle of combat.

If this happened at my table I would probably change the effects of the Despair around a little. Instead of directly hitting (and damaging) the Jedi, it could knock him off balance and give a couple of setback dice, or damage some of his equipment (even his lightsaber) or something else unpleasant - it was a Despair, after all.

Remember that a Despair rolled by a player is the GM's tool, not the players.

So if you attack at ranged an enemy currently engaged with your buddy and you roll a Despair, the GM uses that Despair to hit your friend, it is already spent. Even if the player had rolled 2 Despair, it would still be the GM to use, not the players.

I would probably rule that, if the attacking player rolled 1 Despair (GM ruled to hit his friend), and rolled 1 Triumph, I'd allow it to be used to trigger Improved Reflect and blast an enemy in range.

Based on my reading, reflect is available on incoming ranged damage. If this happened at my table, I would say "yes, you can reflect the shot your buddy just hit you with."

Yep, and then the GM has to decide if he really wants to spend the despair in that particular fashion...

I was going to mention that the "improved reflect" gets potentially wonky with friendly fire, though as it had been pointed out despair is like GM catnip, not for player consumption.

As a second point, I figured the despair would sorta be "consumed" to trigger the friendly fire event, so by the time damage was being done to the friendly, there would have to be a second despair to trigger improved reflect, though in the vein of it being GM candy, I would have preempted and used it to activate a crit on the friendly again, leaving them effectively 0 despair to trigger improved reflect.

Also, I like JP_JP's suggestion that in the case of friendly fire it would take a triumph to activate improved reflect.

I wouldn't let him but he would know that before he took the shot. I won disallow as I consider reflect inhenerently difficult requiring a strong sense of concentration against the person targeting the force user. I mean, someone without force sensitivity cannot even attempt it. He would be too engaged (imo) to turn his attention to reflect the shot from his friend he didn't expect would shoot him.

In this case, as JP_JP has stated, the despair is not a consideration. When Player A fires at Enemy Z who is engaged with Player B and rolls a despair the GM spends that despair to cause the You Hit Your Friend event. That despair is spent and no longer on the table when Player B uses strain to reduce the damage incurred by the shot.

Additionally, also borrowing from JP_JP here, because a player rolled the despair it is up to the GM to expand those if and how they choose. It is not available to the players in the reactions to these events. So, even if Player A had rolled 2 despair that second is not accessible to the player to use with their improved reflect, it is instead available to the GM to trigger further Bad Things.

By RAW you can, but as a GM I would rule that Improved Reflect in this instance could only be triggered by a Triumph or 3 Advantage rather than Despair and Threat respectively. It makes more sense for positive symbols to do positive things.

If two Despairs are rolled... improved reflect is activated and the player that shot is hit by his own blaster bolt ... right?

I went ahead and posed the first question for Sam on the next episode of Order 66, As for Jegergryte's question, that could be a good follow up.

Because the only thing funnier than accidentally shooting your Jedi buddy in the back is him reflexively 360 no scoping you with a behind the back blaster reflection.

But seriously, this is probably a worthwhile thing to ask about. A little developer insight would be extremely beneficial. Though, I think this is why a lot of systems don't allow shooting into melee because of the high risk of a friendly fire incident. Now, with a game universe like Star Wars where there is a high potential for not everyone to have some kind of melee weapon, I think a potential fix lies in designing the encounter so the folks with blasters have something to shoot at other than whatever their buddy has engaged with. Now, it may not work if this is your "big bad" and everyone wants a piece of him, but it may help to have a steady stream of enemy reinforcements waiting in the wings to soak up the blaster fire.

As a sarcastic alternative, instead of shooting into melee which could cause some issues, you could instead throw grenades or use flamethrowers which would perhaps bypass the reflect issue all together.

FYI, Improved Reflect doesn't have to be back to the attacker. It can be any target in range.

On the whole Improved Reflect thing, I would ultimately rule that it's reflected back at his friend. I feel that the Despair is meant to be an overall net negative for the person who generated it and if it happens such that his friend reflects the shot back at him .... well .... maybe next time he won't fire at someone his Jedi buddy is fighting with.

FYI, Improved Reflect doesn't have to be back to the attacker. It can be any target in range.

Such as another Jedi who then uses Improved Reflect...

FYI, Improved Reflect doesn't have to be back to the attacker. It can be any target in range.

Such as another Jedi who then uses Improved Reflect...

Improved Reflect requires a hit from a combat check to work, and since the reflected "hit" happens after the attack is resolved, then it isn't eligible for Improved Reflect (or normal Reflect, for that matter).

FYI, Improved Reflect doesn't have to be back to the attacker. It can be any target in range.

Such as another Jedi who then uses Improved Reflect...

Improved Reflect requires a hit from a combat check to work, and since the reflected "hit" happens after the attack is resolved, then it isn't eligible for Improved Reflect (or normal Reflect, for that matter).

So you're saying it's impossible to reflect a blast that's been improve reflect'ed at you? So if you're fighting Vader, you can get past his defences by shooting at the party Jedi and having him turn your shots on Vader for you?

Batter up!

So you're saying it's impossible to reflect a blast that's been improve reflect'ed at you? So if you're fighting Vader, you can get past his defences by shooting at the party Jedi and having him turn your shots on Vader for you?

Batter up!

By a strict reading of RAW, yes.

Personally, I'd allow Reflect (not Improved though) against shots reflected at you. I also think that way is RAI.

My ideas for this situation:

If the original roll had a Despair: "you hit your friend, he may use reflect (not improved)"

If the original roll had Triumph and Despair "you hit your friend, he may improved reflect at anyone"

If the original roll had Triumph and 2 Despair "you hit your friend, he sends it straight back at you!"

Threat could easily weave into these to inflict strain as well

I agree that Reflect could be used, since the talent's description only says that the character needs to be hit with a ranged attack using one of the three ranged combat skills.

Improved Reflect would be out, since the Despair used to have the ally hit the Jedi has already been spent. Per the RAW, there wouldn't be much chance to use Improved Reflect, and I do agree with the sentiment that spending one PC's Despair/Threat results to trigger a positive outcome for the PCs (namely, turning what was a missed shot into a hit) does seem to fly in the general face/feel of the system. As a GM call I could see spending a Triumph to let the 'saber-wielder then use Improved Reflect, but like I said that's purely a GM call not something I'd expect every GM to buy into.

You guys do realize you can only use improved reflect when someone roles 3 threat or a despair to hit you. So yes you could use reflect. no you don't get to use improved reflect.

You guys do realize you can only use improved reflect when someone roles 3 threat or a despair to hit you. So yes you could use reflect. no you don't get to use improved reflect.

That was my reasoning behind using a Triumph on the original roll to allow Improved Reflect to be used.

I'm not sure if I would be quick enough to think of these things mid session, but I hope Skill Monkey would approve.

You guys do realize you can only use improved reflect when someone roles 3 threat or a despair to hit you. So yes you could use reflect. no you don't get to use improved reflect.

Well, I can see where the confusion/question might come up, given that by the RAW, a Despair rolled when shooting into melee automatically makes that PC the "target" of the ranged attack. As such, if there's 3 threat on the roll as well, it could be read by some as "okay, I can use Improved Reflect because the person attacking me rolled 3 threat."

I agree with you that Improved Reflect shouldn't be able to be used in that instance, but the wording's loose enough that it's worth questioning.

Now I got a scenario the might be an interesting twist...

Player one shoots at player two with the goal of player 2 redirecting the shot around the corner at targets they cannot see...How would you do that?