In my opnion, right now Dunedain, intended as a trait-based mechanic, are not good, not even for multiplayer.

However, an effect like Descendant of Kings is exactly what they need to be effective, since it does not just trigger off engaging enemies, it helps a deck actually dealing with the engaged enemies and does so scaling with the number you have engaged.

I say let's wait before judging Dunedain: a few cards like Descendant of Kings and they might well become a poweful trait.

We need a strong dunedain defender or some other similarly defensive option. Modern quests have enemies that can really mess up with you fast, even if you have engaged only one so taking more than that is very dangerous, and more than 2 is suicide. They are very splashable however.

So they don't suck, but they do need some more development.

Sadly, I don't ever think they'll be great solo, just because there won't be enough enemies to go around and they take some time to build up. I've experimented with loads of different Dunedain solo builds, and while they can hold their own against some of the older quests where you can take your time, they get killed on quests that force you to ramp up quickly.

In multiplayer, though, they can be very good. You really need three to four engaged with you to reach their potential, and they have to be the right kind of enemies. You want to pull down all the wienie orcs in the encounter set and leave them with you. With three or four enemies, you're dumping allies into play left and right, drawing tons of cards with the Sarn Ford Sentry and questing for a bunch with the Warden of Anumenas. Halbarad can be built up into a decent defender, and your big allies with two defense and three hit points can all take a few attacks as well. It's not the most powerful deck, but it really ramps up mid to late game and can carry everyone home from there.

It's not the most powerful deck, but it's still receiving support and I think it will get there. I remember feeling the same way about Gondor during the Against the Shadow cycle, and now there are lots of solid Gondor builds.

If you give Seastan a Jigsaw puzzle with 500 pieces, he will find a way to arrange them such that the resulting picture is even better than the intended solution. The amazing thing is that he doesn't break any rules or pieces. He just fills up the center with border tiles and leaves some holes around the edges.

Haha thanks Tricil

I realized that mablung is a great help for a Dunedain deck. He's gathering emough resources to pay for some of the allies. Would be cool if they had swapped Halbarad's and Mablung's abilities though, as there are no expensive tactics Dunedain cards atm.

I did run a Dunedain/Ent deck that had some success (but more because of the Ents ) with halbarad, Sam and Mablung as my heroes. Now I'm testing a tri-sphere deck, with Halbarad, Loragorn and Mablung. Major complaint here is that the new scenarios (WoE + EfMC) are not a good design for this deck. Perhaps I'm going to tackle the TLR scenatios instead.

Well, OK, let's compare our notes on those cards then:

Halbarad is cool indeed. Action advantage and innate synergy with all the Dunedain stuff.

Tactics Aragorn works fine with the Dunedain syngery from my standpoint. You swap out enemies, keeping roughly the same counter of them in your engagement. I don't quite get why you consider him the weakest, he seems pretty strong to me.

Weatherhill Watchman is pretty good. He can make Ranger Summons happen sooner, he also can fetch some Warnings and stuff, if you're running any. And his stat block is regular for a 2-cost Leadership ally. Certainly not bad.

Heir of Valandil is not worth the money if you can't consistently keep enemies engaged. If you can, however, then it worth every bit spent on it.

Sarn Ford Sentry is super cute <3 She's also a decent quester and gives you cards if you happen to have some friends around What's not to like?

East Road Ranger is funny, because her title says ranger, but she's actually a scout. Seriously, she has a decent stats for her cost, plus you get a buttload of willpower if you get involved in any sidequests. Which are a lot in this new cycle, plus you can play them yourself, which is not to be overlooked either.

Ranger of Cardolan is amazing. He has extremely good stats for his cost and being neutral, and to top it off, he has extremely useful ability.

Descendants of Kings is an amazing card an is unrivaled by anything currently in the game. If you're using it, you'll probably have at least 2 Dunedain heroes around. All Dunedain heroes have from decent to strong stats, which is a key point here. Plus, you're paying only 1 resource for this.

Yeah, Ranger Summons is a gamble. I advise including Shadow of the Past to make is less of a gamble.

Yeah, Gimli is not Dunedain, but I can't see how including 1-2 copies of him would hurt your Dunedain deck

I see how tactics Aragorn works for multiplayer, but for solo play he is a sucker.

And yes, I changed my mind about Descendant of Kings. Probably the best of the new Dunedain cards, saved my life multiple times.

Since the Dreamchaser cycle is going to take us to the "ruins of Númenor", I think we can rest assured this cycle is not the end of new Dúnedain support. All we can discuss is how the trait is being developed so far - we have no idea how the archetype will function once fully fleshed out.

I find this topic to be one of 'different tastes for different people'.

As a deckbuilder I don't like how many of the traits 'auto-build' themselves. Outlands is of course the most infamous example, but when it comes to Dwarves/Gondor/Silvan/Ents throwing together all cards with the traits' name in it gives you a reasonable competent deck. Just add some fluff and you're done. Worst of all are cards that are worthless in non-trait-themed decks but superpowerful in trait-themed decks. There's just no deckbuilding fun in those kind of cards.

Dùnedain on the other hand offer bonuses based on a game mechanic, engaging enemies, without forcing players how to deal with that. This makes deckbuilding more fun, as there are multiple solutions to effectively using Dúnedain cards without them automatically synergyzing with each other. Power is definately not the issue here, as the Aragorn-Hobbit deck we've seen a while back caused some players to argue in favor of errata. I could also argue most Dúnedain cards are very good in the right deck. It's just a Dúnedain only deck that seems weak compared to other traits.

So we have two different wants that seemingly clash with each other: the ability to build a trait-themed-deck that doesn't compromise the theme and is still playable vs the deckbuilding challenge of finding ways of using new cards without auto-synergy included in the traits themselves. It could be that we get more Dúnedain cards that will rock your socks. But right now it seems Dúnedain are more intended for players like me, who value discovery though deckbuilding, while Ents for example are more intended for players like you, who want a trait-themed deck that doesn't compromise theme and is still playable. Do you agree?

Well, let me preface by agreeing with some other posters that it's really too early to tell. Perhaps in a few packs we will get some answers to the current problems of Dunedain.

However, I thin you're missing the point a little. Most of the recent Dunedain cards trigger not only when you have an enemy engaged (like Halbarad) but rather based on the number of enemies you have engaged. Now, if it was the first way, I could see splashing in a Forest Snare or two, or just keeping a strong defender around and not killing a weak enemy. But that isn't good enough, you have to have a lot of enemies engaged to really make Dunedain potential start coming into play, which leaves you exceedingly vulnerable to being overwhelmed and killed. Even if you survive, committing that many characters to defense simply might not be worth the bonuses I get from Dunedain. Take Warden as a perfect example. For every point of Willpower he gains, I essentially have to keep 1 character back for blocking. Since most characters have at least 1 WP, it's almost impossible to come out ahead here. It's not a matter of deck building. Unless everyone is missing it, there isn't an answer to this problem yet.

I don't like this one bit. The trait seems to be all about engaging weak enemies and not killing them. This doesn't seem to fit the theme of the valorous descendants of Arnor.

Speculating, what I think we may see, what I would like to see, is the other "half" of this combo. Lots of Dunedain who get bonuses for defeating the enemy, like (T)Arargorn does. Then you're set up to engage the enemy, get your bonuses, slay the enemy, and get a different set of bonuses. If you happen to bite off more than you can chew, you're going to get bonuses again the next round for each enemy you still have engaged. Now that sounds fun, and thematic in my opinion. Would love to see it.

Disagree. Traits do not necessarily limit deck building and OP's claim that the dunedain are on the weak side does not mean that this weakness leads to more deck building options, quite the opposite, it's mostly the stronger cards like say Glorfindel or Quickbeam that unlock more variety. Also the Dunedain are most certainly intended to allow for thematic decks, calling them auto-build decks is kinda unfair btw.

The truth is that the Dunedain are very risky and we will have to wait for the conclusion of this cycle before we can rate their power level correctly.

I am trying to build Dunedain decks atm to see if they can stand their own. It is like DunedainLoreKeeper said, you need some assistment by other traits to make it work. In my case I chose the good old Bilbo-Defense-Machine (Burning Brand + Dunedain Warnings + Fast Hitchs + card draw) which enabled me to build a deck wih mostly Dunedain cards in it. And it worked pretty well, with Halbarad and Mablung as my Dunedain heroes I could cover three spheres and got bonus cards and resources by Bilbo and Mablung.

Thne I built a pure Dunedain deck (with some cards like Steward of Gondor and Warden of Healing splashed in) with Halbarad, Loragorn and Idraen as my heroes. It works, but I loose more often than I win. My main complain so far is that Cold from Angmar makes it very hard to play this deck, because when you defend a lot you risk some damage, and if you don't have any healing, you're pretty much screwed. This is of course a problem for every deck, but more so for Dunedain.

After playing a lot recently with these cards, I am still not convinced that this trait can compete with others, but it's possible to build decent decks. There are some cards that I never play (Descendant of Valandil is hard to get to use) and some that I start liking (Star Brooch is a nice little gem). So, uhm yeah, I wouldn't say anymore that these cards suck, but that they're somewhat disappointing, especially as I somewhat expected synergies with the Ranger trait before.

I have to say I agree with those who wrote that it is too early. Apart from a card or two on each cycle, Angmar was the first that Dunedain cards appeared and they are going to continue on the next one. Thus we have to be patient.

Apart from this, I played all three quests of TLR with pure Dunedain decks. I won all three quests eventually, though apart from the first, which I won easily, it took a lot of deck changes to win them. It was always close but ...

I used Halbarad, Aragorn (Lore) and Beravor. One of the most important things was to attach Sword that was broken on Aragorn, and then STeward of Gondor. Thus I have two Lore and "two" Leadership heroes generating 5 resources per turn. Turn by turn i was building my dunedain deck. Burning Brand and the song attachment help a lot for attack and defend, as well as some Lore events for encounter deck manipulation.

The only non thematic card I used (apart from Steward of Gondor) was Hennemarth Riversong who could be used with the scout attachment which readies a hero after naming the encounter card that will reveal correctly. Used this to beravor who could quest for 3 (+1 from sword that was Broken) and then ready her either to Defend ot to draw extra cards

Disagree. Traits do not necessarily limit deck building and OP's claim that the dunedain are on the weak side does not mean that this weakness leads to more deck building options, quite the opposite, it's mostly the stronger cards like say Glorfindel or Quickbeam that unlock more variety. Also the Dunedain are most certainly intended to allow for thematic decks, calling them auto-build decks is kinda unfair btw.

The truth is that the Dunedain are very risky and we will have to wait for the conclusion of this cycle before we can rate their power level correctly.

Good point! I hadn't considered that powercards like Glorfindel and Quickbeam can increase deckbuilding by giving breathing space. I was thinking of deckbuilding 'weaker' cards that work because of some synergy you discover, not deckbuilding with cards despite their weakness.

Auto-build decks is a bit more of a loaded term then I wanted to use. Still, I like how Dùnedain give obvious bonusses but also present you with a deckbuilding challenge you have to overcome. Compared to the Ents, who basically have a card for each thing their respective sphere does. But Ents are cool because unlike, say Outlands, most of them don't need to go all-or-nothing with them to still be powerful. But I prefer cards like the Palantir because of the challenge (yet amazing possible reward) it presents. I also like how the Dùnedain Hunter is can be amazing or 'meh' depending on the deck you build. And he's not ONLY good with Dùnedain. This is true for many Dùnedain cards, which is why I like them so much. In contrast I feel that most Silvans where kinda underpowered outside a silvan deck.

awp832 also makes a good point: Dùnedain get rewarded for keeping a zoo, not so much destroying enemies, which is kinda silly.

Disagree. Traits do not necessarily limit deck building and OP's claim that the dunedain are on the weak side does not mean that this weakness leads to more deck building options, quite the opposite, it's mostly the stronger cards like say Glorfindel or Quickbeam that unlock more variety. Also the Dunedain are most certainly intended to allow for thematic decks, calling them auto-build decks is kinda unfair btw.

The truth is that the Dunedain are very risky and we will have to wait for the conclusion of this cycle before we can rate their power level correctly.

Good point! I hadn't considered that powercards like Glorfindel and Quickbeam can increase deckbuilding by giving breathing space. I was thinking of deckbuilding 'weaker' cards that work because of some synergy you discover, not deckbuilding with cards despite their weakness.

Auto-build decks is a bit more of a loaded term then I wanted to use. Still, I like how Dùnedain give obvious bonusses but also present you with a deckbuilding challenge you have to overcome. Compared to the Ents, who basically have a card for each thing their respective sphere does. But Ents are cool because unlike, say Outlands, most of them don't need to go all-or-nothing with them to still be powerful. But I prefer cards like the Palantir because of the challenge (yet amazing possible reward) it presents. I also like how the Dùnedain Hunter is can be amazing or 'meh' depending on the deck you build. And he's not ONLY good with Dùnedain. This is true for many Dùnedain cards, which is why I like them so much. In contrast I feel that most Silvans where kinda underpowered outside a silvan deck.

awp832 also makes a good point: Dùnedain get rewarded for keeping a zoo, not so much destroying enemies, which is kinda silly.

I'd disagree on the Silvans. Galadhrim Minstrel is maybe not so great in a non-Silvan context, but Naith Guide, Galadhon Archer and Galadriel's Handmaiden are pretty much my go-to 2 cost allies in their respective spheres now.

It is nice that Dunedain have that versatility though.

wait what? Galadhrim Minstrel is not so great in non silvan context? Could not disagree more. Fantastic ally in any deck that has lots of events. The amount of times the Minstrel has fetched A Test of Will, Gildors Counsel, Elronds Council or Galadhrims Greeting for me on a turn that without said card I would have suffered greatly (awful treachery that is a perfect target for test of will appears or I am close to threating out) is beyond count. I get that she is obviously intended to fetch the silvan event cards but honestly she is an amazing ally in any deck that is event heavy.

Totally agree re Naith Guide and Handmaiden however. Naith Guide is easily my favourite silvan ally and probably my favourite low cost leadership ally full stop, that sweet sweet action advantage...

The 2 cost silvans are awesome, I find myself using all but the Tactics one in many of my decks. Galadhon Archer is good and well-balanced, but her ability sucks against toughness. I wonder if we're ever gonna see toughness again though, seeing it was mainly a feature of Saruman's orcs and uruks. But maybe in Mordor it is plausible.

Back to the Dunedain cards briefly, played a few quests with my friend for some two player action and used Aragorn (tactics), Halbarad, and Faramir (leadership). I was really pleased the way the heroes worked together. Play dunedain hunter, grab an enemy, quest with halbarad for free (and ready up an ally if one needs readying), engage an enemy normally, ready a questing ally, kill the enemy, engage another enemy in staging or with other player with aragorn, ready another ally, either kill it or leave it engaged so i can quest without exhausting with Halbarad again. And lots of other little combos with that. Its too bad we cant play with 4 heroes, because those 3 with tactics Mablung would be crazy. I want to try and iteration with him but not sure who i'd want to take out; probably Halbarad.

Most powerful Dùnedain decks right now seem to revolve around tactics Aragorn grabbing enemies and killing them preferably by grabbing them right from the staging area. But most Dùnedain cards seem to want enemies engaged with them during the planning phase. Forest snare seems to be the only alternative for that.

So I want to know from you guys: should the Dùnedain get more defensive cards to make it easier to have lot's of enemies engaged fairly harmlessly or are the current options good enough? The Dùnedain seem like half-finished by not having enough defensive options so far, but I've found this lack of an obvious answer to be one of the things that draws me to Dùnedain. We can certainly fill up the space with defensive Ents, Defenders of Ramas, traps etc. But should there be the full-thematic option with some powerful Dùnedain defensive cards?

Alternatively, should they get more reward-for-killing cards like the secret vigil. A horn of gondor that triggers on killing enemies for example? Regardless, Dùnedain will always be a fun archetype with their risk-and-reward for engaging enemies.

Thats something I thought of.

Played Wastes of Eriador on Saturday with a pure Dunedain deck. Loragorn, Beravor and Halbarad. All my allies were Dunedain apart from warden of healing. The signal defending attachment that player can switch between heroes work well in my opinion if you can have your heroes ready on combat phase. In most quests that can easily happen with Halbarad (not on Wastes were each day enemies return back on stage), especially with forest snare. Three coppies can keep up to three enemies in front of you giving the advantage you need. Wingfoot with Hennemarth or other cards that help you check the encounter deck is another option.

Yet again the most you can get out of it is a +3 on a hero and need three resources to give it on another. (one for each attachment). On quests with strong enemies this would not be enough. I guess an ally or signal attachment with and ability that raises defence according to the number of engaged enemies would be nice. If that could be used on allies (like Ranger from Cardolan who is great), even better

How viable do you think a Signal deck would be?

I don't think a 'Signal deck' is really a thing... You can build a deck that makes good use of Signals, and then the Weather Hills Watchman becomes incredibly useful to fetch them for you, but it's not really a thing you completely focus a deck on, just one part of it.

Unless they add some new signals

I don't think a 'Signal deck' is really a thing... You can build a deck that makes good use of Signals, and then the Weather Hills Watchman becomes incredibly useful to fetch them for you, but it's not really a thing you completely focus a deck on, just one part of it.

I agree.

Signals, and it's new triggers, are great in support decks when playing multi player.

Think digging up a Gathering Information with the new Dunadan Message.

All players get to fish a card out of their decks. Very strong effect.

Add some Ranger provisions, Ancient Mathom & Elf stone and so on and all your buddies will love you.

Anybody else feels that Tactics Aragon would have been fitted better into the Dunedain theme if he would have given -1 Attack instead of defense to engaged enemies?