Ram monkey? 3 Rams and the Glady is out? ​

REBEL FLEET 400/400

1 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Mon Mothma (30) - Jaina's Light (2)
2 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
3 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
4 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
5 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
6 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
7 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)
8 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - CR90 Corellian Corvette (39) - Engine Techs (8)

That's a problem isn't it? I can easily run a GGGVV list, it would mean only buying another Glad, something I could easily do, if I wanted to run the Y wing list - I'd have to buy an AFII and 4 packs of fighters - my wallet doesn't like this

Plus, if I'm playing at 400 points, I'd rather have some wave 2 ships in the mix.

From my favourite online retailer I see:

Core set = £55.81

Assault Frigate MkII = £26.41

Rebel Fighter pack = £12.69

55.81 + (3 x 26.41) + (5 x 12.69) = £198.49

Did I do something wrong? IIRC there's only 2 Y-wing squadrons per pack. I would love to know what retailer you're using (delivery included in price please) if you're getting cheaper.

Looks about right if you don't have the core already, though there are 4 x Y Wings per fighter pack.

Of course, you could get by with 8 Y-wings and just buy two fighter packs, saving you £13 for one fighter stand you don't really need @ 400 pts

£160.42

Scratch that, you're right there are 2 of each fighter types per pack.. I clearly spent more than I remember... so yeah, about 200 notes if the cupboard is currently armada empty.

Plus the 150 you're going to spend in 8 weeks or so on wave 2..

Yup had a quick look and by the time of wave 2 I'll have spent about 400 notes.

Scratch that, you're right there are 2 of each fighter types per pack.. I clearly spent more than I remember... so yeah, about 200 notes if the cupboard is currently armada empty.

Plus the 150 you're going to spend in 8 weeks or so on wave 2..

Yup had a quick look and by the time of wave 2 I'll have spent about 400 notes.

I prefer not to think about it. In addition to the money I spent on Armada (core, 4 fighter packs, 2 GSDs, 1 VSD, 2 AFs, 2 CR90s, 1 Neb) just look at my X-wing collection. Which excludes my wave 7 preorder. If I ever add up the value of these items I think I would spontaneously combust.

Wargaming in general isn't the cheapest, though considering I used to blow £70 on a hockey stick every few matches (and think nothing of it), it's not so bad.

Mate of mine drives a fifty grand car. In comparison, I like my plastic toys.

Can you point out the logical fallacies?

Sure

First his whole post is a big anecdotal fallacy because he has no facts to back up his claim. For example Armada is not teetering, it is in fact per the last survey taken the 3rd best selling miniature game. The only evidence we have at all fly's directly in contradiction of the opening statement.

He also makes the Argument from authority because he is presenting his statements as facts not opinions. "but everyone, even at GenCon, (I was there...) are saying the exact same things." and "If you are playing Imperials, and you use fighters... you're doing it wrong."

I could go on but I've made my point.

The OP is making statements and not willing to accept any sort of proof to the contrary, because these are all established and immutable facts, not opinions per his post.

My fencing coach taught me to keep doing what worked, and if it didn't work then, it was on me to change my tactics. It's a meta problem, and with no squadrons the exploit is dead easy.

The thing is the VSDx2 GSDx3 list has been played and replayed, so it may take a bit more than a game or two of practice, but give it time and this would be about the right thing I think.

REBEL FLEET 395/4001 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72) - Garm Bel Iblis (25) - Gunnery Team (7) - Advanced Projectors (6)2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72) - Gunnery Team (7) - Advanced Projectors (6) - Enhanced Armament (10)3 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72) - Gunnery Team (7) - Expanded Hangar Bay (5) - Advanced Projectors (6)4 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 5 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 6 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 7 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 8 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 9 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 10 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 11 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 12 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10) 13 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10)

Since the 3GsD and 2 VSD is Darth Lupine's last winning tournament list (where they actually did not play the real game) and he only goes for ship kills, and from what I have seen of his games, his opponents are not as skilled (I mean 3 games with 10-0 wins, that is a lack of skill on his opponents part, could be bad deployment though) as him. It's no wonder that people in his area are upset.

GSDs are brutal little bastards that punish your mistakes hard

This can make playing against then frustrating at first. Really, though, they're not that amazing once you get used to them. Their Phenomenal punch is tempered by the shortest range in the game.

A good suggestion: never ever use position based scoring objectives (such as Intel) unless its dangerous territory.

Doing so is basically giving your opponent a "hit me here " sign to follow

Can you point out the logical fallacies?

Sure

First his whole post is a big anecdotal fallacy because he has no facts to back up his claim. For example Armada is not teetering, it is in fact per the last survey taken the 3rd best selling miniature game. The only evidence we have at all fly's directly in contradiction of the opening statement.

He also makes the Argument from authority because he is presenting his statements as facts not opinions. "but everyone, even at GenCon, (I was there...) are saying the exact same things." and "If you are playing Imperials, and you use fighters... you're doing it wrong."

I could go on but I've made my point.

The OP is making statements and not willing to accept any sort of proof to the contrary, because these are all established and immutable facts, not opinions per his post.

Okay, granted

While he is certainly guilty of the anecdotal fallacy, I would dispute that he has "no" facts. Anecdotes are still facts, even if they suffer from being drawn from a small sample size. However, I suspect that he's just outright lying, so I won't dispute you on the matter that he isn't using facts. If Rebels were no underpowered, how come Shmitty was able to come in 2nd place with a Rebel build? If he had been at GenCon, he would have been aware of that, and he would have dealt with that single anecdotal fact.

Also, I wouldn't be that hard on him for using anecdotal evidence, if it weren't for the fact that we do have a wider available source of data to draw from, namely the Mini Ranker. While it will be good to get more data in there, it's still showing that the Rebels are winning 3 out of 8 listed tournaments, and taking 2 out of 5 times second place (as we have incomplete data on 2nd place lists). Both of those two are at major national tournaments - GenCon and the Australian Nationals. I wish we had more data from Nordic Nationals

But, let's remember: the OP is a troll. (Yes, that's my conclusion based on anecdotal evidence within this thread. But, given that we have seen the totality of his posts - all 2 of them - I don't think you can accuse me of a sampling error. )

Flipping initialisms! What's ACM?

The one negative I do have for Armada is the release schedule which has been disappointingly slow.

Too slow? As somebody who just has to buy at least one of every Star Wars related mini FFG makes I wish the other games would slow down to Armada pace!

In my opinion that only covers it partly. I understand that rules-tweeking and producing of the models takes time, and I am ok with it as I like to have a quality product which does not need abundant FAQs or Erratas to be enjoyable.

But I have serious issues with the way FFG is announcing new stuff, or the lack of announcements. Let us have some insights on the progress, FFG - is it so hard to give, say, a monthly summary on what has been achieved, or what is it the developers are on at the moment? These annoying gabs between information slowly drain my mood.. They dropped the coreset on us (granted, the delay in wave 1 was beyond FFGs control!) and kept us waiting with little to no info, then dropped wave 1 on us, which I still do not consider as the full game experience, and keep more or less silent since then, except for a single article about wave 2 stuff which is now months old. The PR team at FFG needs to step up their game in my eyes, and start to tease people on a regular basis to keep them excited. Give us some small goodies, explain a single new game mechanic or interview somebody from the developers team, its basic PR stuff..

I'm the opposite - I'd rather they released a lot less news in advance so we were all surprised when cool new toys arrived!

Advanced Concussion Missiles.

Flipping initialisms! What's ACM?

Advanced Concussion Missiles.

You know Lyraeus, going on about how my opponents are unskilled is a tad annoying. Quite frankly, I believe two of them would actually give you a run for your money.

I like to believe I ran a perfect score twice simply because I AM THAT GOOD.

( lol I'm kidding, there's always someone better. However here were I at, I ain't found him or her yet.)

That bazillions Ywing list would definitely give me pause. Not to be underestimated that one.

And we were playing the real game, hehe. It would have made no difference if we were choosing objectives. I'm telling you, the way I play, whatever object be you have will not matter, and more than likely I will turn it to my advantage. I ain't been playing war games since I was twelve for nothing....

This guy totally sent me his PayPal, and his street address in a PM. Lol.

Well I am one of those more lucky vs skilled guys. By sheer odds I would have to beat you at some point Darth. Statistics aside though, every wave will find a new balance. All we have to do is wait

I'd just like to throw my hat in the ring saying I also don't mind waiting for Wave II a bit. Games don't have to move quickly to be enjoyable. I prefer a slow, gradual evolution! I am still having a blast with Wave I. I realize I am in the minority!

Also, I wouldn't be that hard on him for using anecdotal evidence

This may derail the thread, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

My issue isn't the anecdotal nature of his evidence, it's that it's presented as being an immutable fact, and one that everyone should simply accept. He even says that there is no reason to debate the point he's making.

It's not even like he's making a statement about his experience, he's making sweeping statement that include everyone.

I could say "I can't win with Rebels" or I could say "Taking an Imperial list with fighter support is a bad idea" and that would be fine. Because I'm either speaking for myself, or at least have left room open for discussion. The OP did neither, he made blanket statements which I find are almost always questionable at best.

But even then, he's completely guilty of cheery-picking his anecdotes. There is no way that Everyone at GenCon agrees with him. You get a group of 10 people together to discuss any topic and you'll have at least 1 who doesn't agree. So as you point out that's a flat out lie of omission at least, and very misleading on the OP's part.

That's a big part of my issue with the OP. He comes here and makes statement of facts and missleads people about his evidence.

But, let's remember: the OP is a troll.

Very possible yes. But in this case I think he's less a troll and just opinionated, unable to make an effective argument, confusing personal opinions for facts, and flat out wrong.

A troll is going to make statements that are a bit harder to refute, and would do more to keep fanning the flames.

This may derail the thread, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Not a bad thing in the slightest.

Also, I wouldn't be that hard on him for using anecdotal evidence

My issue isn't the anecdotal nature of his evidence, it's that it's presented as being an immutable fact, and one that everyone should simply accept. He even says that there is no reason to debate the point he's making.

It's not even like he's making a statement about his experience, he's making sweeping statement that include everyone.

*shrug*

Where I'm from, that's called a strong thesis statement. The fact that it's coming from his mouth (or fingers) suggests that it's his opinion to begin with. If we called people on their stridency, we'd be doing a lot of calling.

Is it the fact that he waltzes in here with no prior posts to his name that bothers you? Sure, it would suggest that he might want to argue a little more gingerly, but - who cares, really?

But, let's remember: the OP is a troll.

Very possible yes. But in this case I think he's less a troll and just opinionated, unable to make an effective argument, confusing personal opinions for facts, and flat out wrong.

A troll is going to make statements that are a bit harder to refute, and would do more to keep fanning the flames.

I suppose there are trolls with different skill levels of trolling. He might just be new at this. Perhaps we should give him tips on how to troll more effectively.

If - on the outside chance - that he's not a troll, then being two posts in to your forum posting career and having people suspecting you're a troll is a clear sign that you're not doing right. Maybe he's just a kid.

Armada is teetering..

you can argue it till you are blue in the face, but everyone, even at GenCon, (I was there...) are saying the exact same things.

The Rebels are overpointed, underpowered and essentially, at this point, completely worthless vs any upright human being playing imperials that can tie his/her own shoes without drooling.

If you are playing Imperials, and you use fighters... you're doing it wrong.

ACM is just stupidly overpowered and underpointed and hey, let's combo that with another imp card that GAURANTEES it goes off EVERY shooting phase! Isnt that meta kids?

Imperial Ships have more shields, run with all black die attacks.. and are CHEAPER then the red/black die counterparts. Cause yeah.. EVERYONE runs 3R/3B instead of 6B amirite Imps???

====

Wave 2 better see a SERIOUS beefing of the Rebels, or this game is toast. It was pretty much announced last week at our shop that no more Tournaments will be played/supported until AFTER Wave 2. Even store owners cant generate interest in the game when its so far out of wack. There is now just 1 store left within 100 miles that plays Armada regularly... and they cant even keep a weekly league play going. It's a scattered person here and there..

I TRIED. I really did. I was the one who really pushed this game in my area. Now I have to sit and stammer through weak justifications on why the Rebels are so horribly outmatched at every level in every catagory....

I can only hope for the best.. Ive got alot of money invested here, as do many others.. but these ridiculous launch delays followed by horrible balancing issues and going RIGHT down the same path XWing did with broken equipment cards.. I dont have much hope left.

We're doomed!

Mon Mathematical would like for you to reroll that hit-crit you just fished for.

I'd just like to throw my hat in the ring saying I also don't mind waiting for Wave II a bit. Games don't have to move quickly to be enjoyable. I prefer a slow, gradual evolution! I am still having a blast with Wave I. I realize I am in the minority!

I agree Steven...as we saw on Sunday there are still new and untested builds that do extremely well. *shakes fist at you*

Steve is like the Dynamite in Paper, Rock, Scissors when it comes to minis games. :-)

Flipping initialisms! What's ACM?

The one negative I do have for Armada is the release schedule which has been disappointingly slow.

Too slow? As somebody who just has to buy at least one of every Star Wars related mini FFG makes I wish the other games would slow down to Armada pace!

In my opinion that only covers it partly. I understand that rules-tweeking and producing of the models takes time, and I am ok with it as I like to have a quality product which does not need abundant FAQs or Erratas to be enjoyable.

But I have serious issues with the way FFG is announcing new stuff, or the lack of announcements. Let us have some insights on the progress, FFG - is it so hard to give, say, a monthly summary on what has been achieved, or what is it the developers are on at the moment? These annoying gabs between information slowly drain my mood.. They dropped the coreset on us (granted, the delay in wave 1 was beyond FFGs control!) and kept us waiting with little to no info, then dropped wave 1 on us, which I still do not consider as the full game experience, and keep more or less silent since then, except for a single article about wave 2 stuff which is now months old. The PR team at FFG needs to step up their game in my eyes, and start to tease people on a regular basis to keep them excited. Give us some small goodies, explain a single new game mechanic or interview somebody from the developers team, its basic PR stuff..

I'm the opposite - I'd rather they released a lot less news in advance so we were all surprised when cool new toys arrived!

A Note About the Release of Wave II and The Massing at Sullust

When we first announced the upcoming release of Armada Wave II, we anticipated that its expansions would be available to retailers by the third quarter of 2015. However, due to an unavoidable manufacturing delay, we have had to push back the wave's release. We are now on schedule to see Wave II released in the fourth quarter of 2015.

In the meantime, we have been delighted by the tremendous momentum Armada has been gaining with its fans and in Organized Play as its massive battles have begun to reshape the galaxy. We are also aware of the fan community's anticipation of the game's second wave, and we have decided to air freight some of the first ships off the run. We're truly excited by all that Wave II promises to bring to the game, and we want you to share our excitement for these ships and squadrons as soon as possible. These are the starships and squadrons players will have the chance to fly and win at The Massing at Sullust.

They have been listening- er, reading

I really hope the local stores run the Sullust event....need my ISD nooowwwww!!!