If you are using the pup upgrade on The YV-666 and you get the Injured Pilot critical hit, when you escape in the pup, do you get your ability back?

If you are using the pup upgrade on The YV-666 and you get the Injured Pilot critical hit, when you escape in the pup, do you get your ability back?

Yes, same as if you flipped the crit facedown.

wasn't for sure since technically it is the same pilot.

Aye, but damage cards don't carry from one ship to the other.
Otherwise, the Z-95 would enter, and immediately dissolve from receiving 3x as many damage cards as hull

Yeah as much as it's called a pilot card, the damage you take is applying to the ship, not the pilot. Even if it says 'injured pilot'.

"Nastah Flying Bacta Tank" wouldn't fit on the card.

Are you sure about this? Granted the ship received the damage but it affected the pilot. Is there something in the YV-666 documents that confirms this. Logically, I know it doesn't necessarily apply, the injured pilot condition would follow him and not physically affect the pup.

So far I'm batting zero when it comes to these interpretations, that's why I ask.

"Nastah Flying Bacta Tank" wouldn't fit on the card.

Use smaller print?

Are you sure about this? Granted the ship received the damage but it affected the pilot. Is there something in the YV-666 documents that confirms this. Logically, I know it doesn't necessarily apply, the injured pilot condition would follow him and not physically affect the pup.

So far I'm batting zero when it comes to these interpretations, that's why I ask.

It's still a damage card that's been applied to the YV-666. It the pilot carried it over, then the Pup would deploy with only one hull. The damage cards apply to the ship that was hit only, and just because it's one of the "Pilot Trait" cards doesn't really matter.

Are you sure about this? Granted the ship received the damage but it affected the pilot. Is there something in the YV-666 documents that confirms this. Logically, I know it doesn't necessarily apply, the injured pilot condition would follow him and not physically affect the pup.

So far I'm batting zero when it comes to these interpretations, that's why I ask.

It's still a damage card that's been applied to the YV-666. It the pilot carried it over, then the Pup would deploy with only one hull. The damage cards apply to the ship that was hit only, and just because it's one of the "Pilot Trait" cards doesn't really matter.

Ok, I'll accept that. But to me this falls into the same group as the Outrider getting its primary weapon back after losing the secondary and Dash with Stunned Pilot. Not exactly logical.

Hey, if I was to list all the things in this game that aren't logical, I'd be typing all night!

You've got to keep in mind the game's mechanics are designed to be simple and sometimes some logic will take a backseat in order to keeping things flowing.

Are you sure about this? Granted the ship received the damage but it affected the pilot. Is there something in the YV-666 documents that confirms this. Logically, I know it doesn't necessarily apply, the injured pilot condition would follow him and not physically affect the pup.

So far I'm batting zero when it comes to these interpretations, that's why I ask.

It's still a damage card that's been applied to the YV-666. It the pilot carried it over, then the Pup would deploy with only one hull. The damage cards apply to the ship that was hit only, and just because it's one of the "Pilot Trait" cards doesn't really matter.

Ok, I'll accept that. But to me this falls into the same group as the Outrider getting its primary weapon back after losing the secondary and Dash with Stunned Pilot. Not exactly logical.

It's a game, the logical thing to do in a game is to follow the rules... IMHO.

wasn't for sure since technically it is the same pilot.

Not really, not in the way the game works.

You transfer PS and ability over to the Pup, but that doesn't mean you're suddenly flying Bossk in a Z95.

Hey, if I was to list all the things in this game that aren't logical, I'd be typing all night!

You've got to keep in mind the game's mechanics are designed to be simple and sometimes some logic will take a backseat in order to keeping things flowing.

I think it's a ploy to get me to buy more Tums.

Are you sure about this? Granted the ship received the damage but it affected the pilot. Is there something in the YV-666 documents that confirms this. Logically, I know it doesn't necessarily apply, the injured pilot condition would follow him and not physically affect the pup.

So far I'm batting zero when it comes to these interpretations, that's why I ask.

It's still a damage card that's been applied to the YV-666. It the pilot carried it over, then the Pup would deploy with only one hull. The damage cards apply to the ship that was hit only, and just because it's one of the "Pilot Trait" cards doesn't really matter.

Ok, I'll accept that. But to me this falls into the same group as the Outrider getting its primary weapon back after losing the secondary and Dash with Stunned Pilot. Not exactly logical.

It's a game, the logical thing to do in a game is to follow the rules... IMHO.

The rules are simple and easy to follow. The problem comes from the upgrade cards. Part of this is the wording. The other part may come from the developers themselves. Considering how long they work on each wave, they become familiar with the intent of the ability and when they write the card it sounds good to them. Just look at the FAQ for examples. I'm not knocking the game or the developers. It's human nature. They may need someone to read the cards to see if there any ambiguities. That person should not be a player. Each of us, as players, brings some sort of preconceived ideas to the game.

Take me for example. I've worked in engineering for close to 40 years. Looking at the Outrider title. It tells you when you equip a cannon you can't perform attacks with your primary weapon but you can attack outside of your firing arc. No problem so far. To me this means that your original pea shooter was replaced by something bigger. Then you draw the Munitions Failure crit. It tells you to discard the cannon upgrade card. To me this means the Outrider just became a weaponless blocker. But the title card states "While you have a cannon upgrade card equiped..." This is where my problem arises with this situation. I can't un-equip a card in the middle of a game but the card can be destroyed. So is the Outrider still equipped with a non-functioning cannon upgrade or is the upgrade considered to be gone? According to Alex it's gone and you primary weapon is back on line. It's the wording on the cards together with my preconceived ideas that causes the confusion.

The same thing applies to Dash and the stunned pilot crit. He still ignores obstacles but takes damage if he overlaps another ship.

There are other examples but you get the idea. Sometimes you can read the card but still scratch your wondering what were they thinking. That's why threads like this exist and why we have a 15 page FAQ.

. It's the wording on the cards together with my preconceived ideas that causes the confusion.

Nah, that's really just you.

Outrider title: if you have a cannon equipped, you may not perform primary attacks. If it were a game, it would be checked for true at say the start of the combat activation.

Munitions failure: discard one equipped secondary weapon.

Come the check, you have no secondary weapon equipped so you may perform primary attacks.

You're adding narrative to the functioning of the cards. Tempting and understandable, but it makes it harder to correctly interpret the cards.

Same with the Nashtah Pup, you're not transferring a pilot, running from the cockpit to the escape vessel. You are deploying a new ship with the same PS and ability as the ship that was just destroyed.

Now, if FFG had designed the game with bare bones ships and separate pilot cards you could equip to them, then you would have the pilot crits transferred over as well, but as it is? No.

. It's the wording on the cards together with my preconceived ideas that causes the confusion.

Nah, that's really just you.

Outrider title: if you have a cannon equipped, you may not perform primary attacks. If it were a game, it would be checked for true at say the start of the combat activation.

Munitions failure: discard one equipped secondary weapon.

Come the check, you have no secondary weapon equipped so you may perform primary attacks.

You're adding narrative to the functioning of the cards. Tempting and understandable, but it makes it harder to correctly interpret the cards.

Same with the Nashtah Pup, you're not transferring a pilot, running from the cockpit to the escape vessel. You are deploying a new ship with the same PS and ability as the ship that was just destroyed.

Now, if FFG had designed the game with bare bones ships and separate pilot cards you could equip to them, then you would have the pilot crits transferred over as well, but as it is? No.

You've never had to check the FAQ? Now that's pretty awesome.

The narrative was there to illustrate the thought process and the bias that I brought to the game. Everyone that's ever played a simulation has that bias in one form or another. That's human nature.

Of course I've had to check the FAQ. .

But the thought process / narrative is what caused the confusion. Thematically it makes no sense that you replace the turret weapon with an HLC only to magically get it back when the HLC gets shot off. I fully agree with you there and I think they could've worded it differently.

But that's why I personally remind myself every so often to just look at the cards ma'am. And not insert my own narrative. Because every so often I do exactly that and interpret something wrong. .

It's a game, the logical thing to do in a game is to follow the rules... IMHO.

The rules are simple and easy to follow. The problem comes from the upgrade cards. Part of this is the wording. The other part may come from the developers themselves. Considering how long they work on each wave, they become familiar with the intent of the ability and when they write the card it sounds good to them. Just look at the FAQ for examples. I'm not knocking the game or the developers. It's human nature. They may need someone to read the cards to see if there any ambiguities. That person should not be a player. Each of us, as players, brings some sort of preconceived ideas to the game.

Take me for example. I've worked in engineering for close to 40 years. Looking at the Outrider title. It tells you when you equip a cannon you can't perform attacks with your primary weapon but you can attack outside of your firing arc. No problem so far. To me this means that your original pea shooter was replaced by something bigger. Then you draw the Munitions Failure crit. It tells you to discard the cannon upgrade card. To me this means the Outrider just became a weaponless blocker. But the title card states "While you have a cannon upgrade card equiped..." This is where my problem arises with this situation. I can't un-equip a card in the middle of a game but the card can be destroyed. So is the Outrider still equipped with a non-functioning cannon upgrade or is the upgrade considered to be gone? According to Alex it's gone and you primary weapon is back on line. It's the wording on the cards together with my preconceived ideas that causes the confusion.

The same thing applies to Dash and the stunned pilot crit. He still ignores obstacles but takes damage if he overlaps another ship.

There are other examples but you get the idea. Sometimes you can read the card but still scratch your wondering what were they thinking. That's why threads like this exist and why we have a 15 page FAQ.

I get what you are saying and I'm sorry if my comment seemed a bit harsh.

What I mean is that while the game is very thematic (and that is a good thing), ultimatley it is goverend by rules (and text on cards are part of thouse rules) and to understand how a card or situation works, you need to just look at the text of the card and/or rule book laying aside all thoughts on what "makes sens" in real life or in the theme of the game.

My mind is very stringent and goes in to this mode of thinking by default so to speak and so I can get a bit frustrated when others don't see the "obviousness" of how things should be enterpreted. It allso gets a bit frustrating to read the humongus FAQ when most of it just states what is "obvious" to me by just reading the rules.

But on the other hand, people can be frustrated with me when I don't get the "obviousness" of things in other areas of life.

We are all different and have different ways of thinking about things and we all need to constantly try our best to be tolerant of other ways of thinking. In general I think the people in this forum are very good at that and patiently and politely answeres even the most "obvious" questions. But we all have bad days...

Ok, that turned out to be quit a rant

TLDR, sorry if I came of a bit condecending.

If you have Damaged Cockpit the destroyed ship has a PS of 0. If you have Injured Pilot your EPT and Pilot Ability are ignored. I can see how the effect of these two crits (as well as the PS from VI, Swarm Tactics, or Decoy) might transfer to the Pup. At the time the ship was destroyed there was no pilot ability and/or its pilot skill was whatever the modified value was.

If you have Damaged Cockpit the destroyed ship has a PS of 0. If you have Injured Pilot your EPT and Pilot Ability are ignored. I can see how the effect of these two crits (as well as the PS from VI, Swarm Tactics, or Decoy) might transfer to the Pup. At the time the ship was destroyed there was no pilot ability and/or its pilot skill was whatever the modified value was.

Not quit correct. The injured pilot card tells you "you can not use your pilot ability or abillitys on EPT upgrade cards". So the abbility is still there, you just can't use it as long as you have the damage card. So the pup still gets the ability.

Damaged cocpit is a bit more unclear though. It says to "treat you pilot skill as 0". I belive that means your PS effectivley is 0. So ironicaly it seems the damaged cocpit will transfere it's effect to the pup while injured pilot will not. Here the rules go compleatly against theam, but that is how I would read them.

How on earth would you see that a Damaged Cockpit crit would be transferable? It's like "Uh oh... the Hound's Tooth has taken a pounding... the controls are fried.. I'd better get out before she blows, but I must remember to smash the controls in the Pup once I'm safely strapped in!"

I can understand the logic some of you are trying to put into this, and yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense in more than one area, but I challenge you all to name a game that's completely logical 100% of the time anyway.

With the scope of the game at the beginning, everything would've been fine and dandy, but now that it's evolved a whole lot, there will always be odd situations that don't make much sense (as above). The bulk of the time, it's still fine and dandy. But the moment you start applying logic to a board game, be prepared for some silliness to pop up.

If you have Damaged Cockpit the destroyed ship has a PS of 0. If you have Injured Pilot your EPT and Pilot Ability are ignored. I can see how the effect of these two crits (as well as the PS from VI, Swarm Tactics, or Decoy) might transfer to the Pup. At the time the ship was destroyed there was no pilot ability and/or its pilot skill was whatever the modified value was.

Not quit correct. The injured pilot card tells you "you can not use your pilot ability or abillitys on EPT upgrade cards". So the abbility is still there, you just can't use it as long as you have the damage card. So the pup still gets the ability.

Damaged cocpit is a bit more unclear though. It says to "treat you pilot skill as 0". I belive that means your PS effectivley is 0. So ironicaly it seems the damaged cocpit will transfere it's effect to the pup while injured pilot will not. Here the rules go compleatly against theam, but that is how I would read them.

That's not what Injured Pilot says though, it says to ignore your pilot ability and EPT. If the pilot ability is being ignored when the Pup is deployed there is no pilot ability for it to inherit. The crit itself doesn't transfer.

I can see the upcoming FAQ entry for the Hound's Tooth and the Pup is going to be a big one.

If you have Damaged Cockpit the destroyed ship has a PS of 0. If you have Injured Pilot your EPT and Pilot Ability are ignored. I can see how the effect of these two crits (as well as the PS from VI, Swarm Tactics, or Decoy) might transfer to the Pup. At the time the ship was destroyed there was no pilot ability and/or its pilot skill was whatever the modified value was.

Not quit correct. The injured pilot card tells you "you can not use your pilot ability or abillitys on EPT upgrade cards". So the abbility is still there, you just can't use it as long as you have the damage card. So the pup still gets the ability.

Damaged cocpit is a bit more unclear though. It says to "treat you pilot skill as 0". I belive that means your PS effectivley is 0. So ironicaly it seems the damaged cocpit will transfere it's effect to the pup while injured pilot will not. Here the rules go compleatly against theam, but that is how I would read them.

That's not what Injured Pilot says though, it says to ignore your pilot ability and EPT. If the pilot ability is being ignored when the Pup is deployed there is no pilot ability for it to inherit. The crit itself doesn't transfer.

But the ship the crit is on (and therefore blocking it's ability use) is no longer there, and so the crit is no longer there. Just as if you'd discarded/flipped it with an ability/upgrade.