I think we would all agree that Ships could use their own supplement chock full of new hulls, components, optional rules and pregenerated NPC baddies.

I'm not that disappointed about that, as I figured that would happen. I've already posted Fighters and Bombers in the "House Rules" section. Feel free to use/abuse them as a basis for your own house rules. They're mostly extrapolated from BFG and other GW sources.

As for other ship hull types, the way the RT rules are set up it looks incredibly easy to come up with a good approximation based on the BFG versions and/or the size/shape of the miniatures if you're looking at say, a Thunderbolt or Galaxy Troop Ship which isn't in BFG.

The rules aren't perfect by any means, but I never expected them to be. I'm pretty happy with the lack of House Rules I'm going to have to type up.

Leopold Cygnus said:

A good point was made a couple posts above. While a good portion of the Expanse doesn't nor shouldn't need heavy detailing, things like Port Wander (it's already been explored ;-) ) and other common and somewhat iconic locals to the Expanse should get a good and healthy bit of fleshing out. The worlds which are mapped should get some decent flesh on their bones -that wouldn't interfere with the exploration of the expanse. The paltry amount of worlds mapped and mentioned can hardly be the sum whole or even the majority (or the majority of a small minority) of what lies uncharted, unmapped, unmentioned, and, as such, unexplored in the Expanse. What has been printed and labeled, especially Port Wander, are now cannon to the Expanse and one could assume that they will be expanded upon in later supplements. This can intimidate GM's who don't want what to make a part of a future supplement invalid when they finally get it. In a lot of casses, such GM's feel that what is officialy written about a setting is usualy better then what they come up with on their own and to miss out on a better and more intriguing part of a setting because they came up with something not as good and included it in their game can make them feel short-changed. A bit more fleashiwork done on such locations would help alleviate this anxiety as well as helping the GM with what i consider to be one of the most important and time consuming parts of scenario design: setting the stage.

Besides, if it takes a good GM (which aren't exactly a dime a dozen) to fully use the setting as presented, what are all those who only have a mediocre GM to do? Is this game for groups with good to exceptional GM's only?

I don't understand the questions and demands for all spaceships. The book provides enough basic hulls and and more then enough options to customize or create new vessels.

If you want a spaceship game start Battlefleet Gothic. Which in fact everyone should play.

The Koronus Expanse offers a truly rich enviroment. The blankness of a lot is great. But there are also enough intrigues around to have fun with. I finally now where my Magos Explorator from BFG is heading!

Had a quick look and overall it looks good, the careers pages are lacking some decent illustrations, really do not like the ones used in this book and I also miss the little bits of fluff in the career ranks.

I like the addition of starting skills/talents and gear to these pages though

The lack of prices is also very irritating but understandable for many of the weapons, especially the nifty lasgun

horizon said:

See, I'm not sure it does. It essentially offers a blank canvas. There's arguably more detail on other bits of the Halo Stars in the Ravenor novels, making them richer as play areas.

I do agree, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of great stuff in the Expanse chapter (I love Footfall for example), it just feels very slight, even compared to the relatively slim Calixis Sector chapter in DH.

That aside, one of my players said to me tonight, after reading his copy today, that the book gives us 'what we needed, but not nearly enough of what we'd have liked' - by this he meant yes the PF stuff is sound (basically), the starship stuff is also good (if light on hulls etc), the Expanse chapter gives the bare bones of the region, and there are some new bits of kit etc ... however his complaint was that, like DH in our opinion, there is still that lingering feeling carried over of 'you can't do that' about the whole thing. It's nowhere near as bad as DH of course, but still as my player pointed out there seems something of a gap between 40K canon and what pcs can buy and command in the game. Or rather that the fluff in the game describes stuff the game really doesn't back - for example ... fluff in the book mentions RTs who have regiments of IG aboard their ships, or companies of tanks ... but where are the rules for acquiring/buying/recruiting such forces. Also why limit pcs to light cruisers? Is there really much difference between having several cruisers, as opposed to one Heavy Cruiser or Battleship?

Ultimately, I shall continue to buy every DH and RT sourcebook that comes out as they always have tons of really good fluff and ideas, but I do feel the games are flawed at the base. The repetition of rules here (and presumably to some degree in the upcoming Deathwatch game) seems silly and annoying - surely it would have made much more sense to have a 40K RPG Basic Rulebook that gave you all the core rules, skills, psi powers, etc - but none of the fluff (or very basic fluff along the lines of what was in the 1st Edition 40K book) - then have sourcebooks that cover playing characters in specialised fields (such as the Inquisition, Rogue Traders, Space Marines, etc etc)?

I know ... moan moan, grumble grumble. ;-)

SJE said:

Strongly suspect? They clearly came out and said it, so I don't see why you are making any prediction here. It's like me saying I strongly suspect they are coming out with a Game Masters screen.

I also don't think they could do either topic justice within the limits of RT. RT has a lot more at the base level then DH does. Simply adding pages to an already large book is unreasonable. It would also be unfair to limit what is presented because of page count in the core book. I'd much rather see starship combat get a solid book all on it's own. The same with the campaign world. This allows me, as the game master, to determine whether I want to use this additional material. I'm not sure whether my players want to partake in starship combat, or they want to focus on other things.

I can appreciate the desire to have all the information presented in the book, but there is already so much in the book, I don't see where they could have put either topic without doing it a disservice.

Finally, you mention that there isn't much new to this. New compared to what? DH? Maybe so, but RT is a game in it's own right. I picked up my copy of DH because of RT. I'm not a DH player. So no, RT has lots of new and interesting things. This isn't an expansion to DH, which is what it appears you are reviewing it as. This, I think, is a mistake.

Adam France said it best: "the book gives us 'what we needed, but not nearly enough of what we'd have liked' ." In this case, however, what the game is lacking wasn't some mystery. FFG came out and were pretty clear that the book didn't contain everything they wanted to get in it.

Adam France said:

Let's be honest though, nothing Games Workshop is involved with in any way is ever "Just rules" with the fluff added in additions. This is at once a great joy because you always get lots and lots of fluff and a great expense because you still have to pay for that fluff just to get the rules.

Adam France said:

It's an option that they (or rather, BI) could have chosen, but ultimately decided not to. It's the option that WW chose for their lines. But it isn't a perfect option - it has its critics. Many people resent being forced to buy two books for one line (a corebook + a setting book). In addition it makes less sense for the 40k games. When WW released the nWoD corebook, they released three setting books in quick succession. The 40k games are released years apart.

I think the only thing that is disappointing to me so far is that I didn't get a CE, I'm gonna hate myself forever for that. The book itself is beautiful. Not too much recycled artwork, lots of good ideas, not to mention the new psy system. Ok maybe I'm a little annoyed with the lack of spreading out in the trees, all the careers are very lineary. So looking forward to seeing more products.

CE is indeed gorgeous ... but everyone I know was intimidated to look/browse it for fear of damaging/smudging/fingerprinting/etc it. I wouldn't want to try to play a game using it .. which would mean 2 copies of the rulebook. CE put under glass to gawk at, and non-CE to use. (yes, it's that nice)

dvang said:

I hear you.

I bought my normal copy so as not to ruin the CE.

macd21 said:

Many people ... I personally don't believe that. Gamers are typically completist hoarders that buy each and every supplement that comes out for a game. I'd put good money that the VAST majority of people who buy RT will already own DH - if they don't they should if only for the Calixis Sector notes etc.

I dream of three setting books for 40k rpg coming out in quick succession. ;-)

I dont... I had WFRP 2nd edition (I even had the first) edition but this is new to me. Im rather glad though as when I flicked through DH i decidedly didnt like it. Although the Inquisition is a big fluff aspect of the 40k universe the " ave imperator, back to hell foul daemon. arggghhh isn't the universe dark and gothic" line can get a bit annoying, and hunting heretics and dangerous pskers through dark basements is not everyones cup of tea.

What was good about the initial warhammer 40000 rogue trader book was the feeling of randomness and weirdness in a undiscovered universe which was very appealing, and much down to the players to interpret, aspects of which GW is trying to recapture and which I think or I hope was the thinking behind this instalment in the 40k roleplay game.

I hope this line turns out to be very sandbox.... random generators for planets and near extinct xeno forms would be great. Also because its in a space i that is not within the imperiums borders this where rogue traders come into their own there should be the possibility of doing and encountering stuff that would not be considered canon fluff in the 40k universe, but which from GW point of view (the imperium!) can be seen as tall tales of traders seeking to elaborate their own personal legends..