Come 9/4 A-Wings are going to be a strong TLT counter.

if you hate TLTs as much as I hate PWTs...

3 Green Squadron (ptl, refit, thrusters) [22 ea.]

2 Prototype (refit, thrusters) [17 ea.]

100 points

if you hate TLTs as much as I hate PWTs...

3 Green Squadron (ptl, refit, thrusters) [22 ea.]

2 Prototype (refit, thrusters) [17 ea.]

100 points

Although you've got to consider those Tempests have 16 points they can spend. That could be for warheads that let them spike some early damage, or some defenses, or an ace. So I think the AC Advanced list is probably fairly well positioned against a TLT block.

Yep. As long as the Advanced can still actually get shots reliably on the Ys. A good TLT swarm player will find a way to make that difficult.

Although you've got to consider those Tempests have 16 points they can spend. That could be for warheads that let them spike some early damage, or some defenses, or an ace. So I think the AC Advanced list is probably fairly well positioned against a TLT block.

Yep. As long as the Advanced can still actually get shots reliably on the Ys. A good TLT swarm player will find a way to make that difficult.

But a good TIE Adv Player will Make it easy...

Isn't their a scum pilot that gains green dice as he evades shot after shot? Give him autothrusters and either lone wolf for reroll or ptl for tokens to make the first few shots miss for his ability to take effect. I dunno, with 8 attacks, you can get up to 10 green dice, with one guaranteed blank to evade if out of arc. Green dice maybe fickle, but at 6+ dice you seldom whiff rolls. (Although the average is still just 2ish).

*sigh* now I wish their was a 2 agility large base ship with a crew slot and sensor slot for rebels. Boost would be nice too. (jammer+flight instructor+autothrusters=lols) might have to proxy one

Oh yeah, what do people think about the one-use countermeasures card? Will it see any play now?

You're thinking of Laetin, and she he gets an evade token if the opponent's attack misses. And she has no EPT and cannot take Autothrusters.

Fixed that for you. He doesn't get Autothrusters or EPT, but you can give him Stealth and go with either a Focus or Evade every round. That with 4 dice usually means you would evade the first 3 dice attack.

I want my Phantoms unnerfed. They were much more fun than turret wing. But TLT? Its pretty fun. I mean come on. Are you seriously complaining that HWKs and Ys are OP? GET A GRIP!

I still think the Phantom is broken. It's too powerful with 4 attack dice. Just wait till TLT kills off all the Fat Turrets and you will see more Phantoms around. Unless you think TLT will get through the cloaked Phantom. If so, then go with Sensor Jammer and you will see the broken Phantom out again.

Although you've got to consider those Tempests have 16 points they can spend. That could be for warheads that let them spike some early damage, or some defenses, or an ace. So I think the AC Advanced list is probably fairly well positioned against a TLT block.

Yep. As long as the Advanced can still actually get shots reliably on the Ys. A good TLT swarm player will find a way to make that difficult.

4 Tie Advanced with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles can approach the TLT's from different directions and make it harder to get 4 shots on the same one. Two firing on the same one will kill it. If you are a decent pilot, you should be able to approach some Y-wings or HWKs without much problem and get the shots on the first or second turn of combat. Hover outside of R3 for one turn and then jump in fast for the next. TL the one that isn't going to bump you.

If you ever need to cite "a good player" for having one force > another, then you know the forces are evenly matched

That's why I stated decent. I think "decent" is weaker than "good" and generally means "someone who isn't bad".

Although you've got to consider those Tempests have 16 points they can spend. That could be for warheads that let them spike some early damage, or some defenses, or an ace. So I think the AC Advanced list is probably fairly well positioned against a TLT block.

Yep. As long as the Advanced can still actually get shots reliably on the Ys. A good TLT swarm player will find a way to make that difficult.

I also love that we're legitimately musing over "which list consisting entirely of Wave 1 ships is going to be a better choice in the coming metagame?"

Hypothetically, if there were a damage deck that didn't include Munitions Failure, that would take a lot of worry away from TLT lists when taking crits.

Although you've got to consider those Tempests have 16 points they can spend. That could be for warheads that let them spike some early damage, or some defenses, or an ace. So I think the AC Advanced list is probably fairly well positioned against a TLT block.

Yep. As long as the Advanced can still actually get shots reliably on the Ys. A good TLT swarm player will find a way to make that difficult.

I also love that we're legitimately musing over "which list consisting entirely of Wave 1 ships is going to be a better choice in the coming metagame?"

Not only that, but wave 1 ships that have been absolutely terrible for years now until recent upgrades!

Not TIE Fighters!

Yeah all we need now is an X-wing fix, and then at least wave 1 will be more or less worked out. Heh. Just took a few years to get there...

Yeah all we need now is an X-wing fix, and then at least wave 1 will be more or less worked out. Heh. Just took a few years to get there...

I'm not there yet, but I'm actually moving toward the "it's time for X-wing 2.0" position--burn it all down, and offer a 2.0 kit for $10-15 with updated rules and cards and tokens for everything. Partly it's because there are a couple of core mechanics that I don't think are working to make the game better, but mostly it's because I'd be really excited to see what FFG's design team could do with three additional years' worth of knowledge and experience relating to the game.

But that's way off the topic of TLTs...!

Do jammers just come in the shuttle packs? Also, how does ruthless interact with twin laser turret? does it trigger once or twice?

Ruthlessness and TLT don't interact much at all. One is Imperial only, and there are no turrets with Imperials I'm aware of

If only Laetin had an EPT or Scyks could get autothrusters, or illicits. Any of those things would have made one or more playable. They can be one shot through an asteroid at range 3 by a tie fighter or Z... And end up costing twice as much just to make that not happen to them.

Yeah all we need now is an X-wing fix, and then at least wave 1 will be more or less worked out. Heh. Just took a few years to get there...

I'm not there yet, but I'm actually moving toward the "it's time for X-wing 2.0" position--burn it all down, and offer a 2.0 kit for $10-15 with updated rules and cards and tokens for everything. Partly it's because there are a couple of core mechanics that I don't think are working to make the game better, but mostly it's because I'd be really excited to see what FFG's design team could do with three additional years' worth of knowledge and experience relating to the game.

But that's way off the topic of TLTs...!

I don't believe we'll ever see this. Scarce cards in expensive models are just too big a part of the sales model to say "Drop $20 and get every upgrade you could ever want from Waves 1-7!"

On the actual topic: So nice to see that Wave 7 is doing what everyone predicted, shaking up the meta!!

...with a new turret.

cool. lets seee how it happens.

anyway, back to TLTs. did anyone find some good counter builds? I tried some 4TLT today. Definitely not bad. But not amazing/game breaking like fat turrets.

My 4 royal guard Tie interceptors with PTL can take down one a turn with concentrated fire. They shoot first to so bringing it down to 6 possible damage before they fire is awesome as well.

Can get hurt really bad by 4 Hwk's with feedback arrays though. However Hwk's would be an easier target because they would want to make use of multiple feedback arrays at once so they would most likely be in formation, where Y-wings would be scattered.

One issue I see if TLTs become A Thing (and I don't see how they don't) is that a lot of stuff that's strong against them is weak to Brobots. It's murder trying to hurt Aggressors without 3 red dice, and it's a nightmare massing enough 3 Attack ships with enough speed and jousting efficiency to take on a pack of TLTs. I can't quite see how to square the circle. B-Wings seem a logical answer, but the Ys are probably fast enough to keep them at R3 which would be a rough engagement for the Bs.

new **** coming out will help

such as a hypothetical new X-wing that could hypothetically equip upgrades that are very detrimental to TLTs (such as auto-thrusters) and then augment it, hypothetically, with shield regen astromechs and an ability that is very similar to luke's (triggers on every attack, not limited to once per round)

otherwise, I've had no problems v aggressors with A-wings (procket to the face!)

not that it matters because technically, anything flown well enough can beat TLTs. low agi is at a higher disadvantage because of the mechanics involved, but because these are range 2-3 turrets and not brainless PWTs you can outmaneuver them (esp cause they're not the fastest ships in the fleet...)

You can get 2 cheap new X wings with autothrusters, and 2 TLT gold squadrons. You could also substitute a Y Wing for a rebel operative with Jan Ors crew to further help with durability.

I think the default TLT list will be four TLT goldies with a hypothetical new card, such as a hypothetical astromech that could hypothetically turn you into Dash (pilot and crew) for a turn.

the plays you could make on that one turn of obstacle immunity could single-handedly win you every game

new **** coming out will help

such as a hypothetical new X-wing that could hypothetically equip upgrades that are very detrimental to TLTs (such as auto-thrusters) and then augment it, hypothetically, with shield regen astromechs and an ability that is very similar to luke's (triggers on every attack, not limited to once per round)

I think the default TLT list will be four TLT goldies with a hypothetical new card, such as a hypothetical astromech that could hypothetically turn you into Dash (pilot and crew) for a turn.

the plays you could make on that one turn of obstacle immunity could single-handedly win you every game

That hypothetical astromech might hypothetically be unique.

I love how FFG constantly tries to counter the current meta with their new releases. Wave 4 was all about the Phantom finally knocking down the Tie swarm a peg or 2, wave 5 introduces 2 strong turret counters to the Phantom, Wave 6 tried to counter turrets with autothrusters making the game revolve around damage reduction and arc dodging. Wave 7 gives us TLT to deal with the dmg reduction and conner nets to deal with those arc dodging AT ships. This wave we've gone full circle, low PS grunts are back into the game!

Knowing how to utilize you ships against your match-ups is still the core of the game, but list building is becoming more and more important due to the increasing complexity of the game, which I think is awesome!

new **** coming out will help

such as a hypothetical new X-wing that could hypothetically equip upgrades that are very detrimental to TLTs (such as auto-thrusters) and then augment it, hypothetically, with shield regen astromechs and an ability that is very similar to luke's (triggers on every attack, not limited to once per round)

A hypothetical R2D2-Autothrusters-Lone Wolf/Predator/Whatever build on this hypothetical ship is going to set you back basically or actually 40 points for something that caps out at PS8 and (an admittedly fairly reliable) 2 evades, though. I worry that's edging towards Super Ten Numb territory in terms of looking like a good idea on paper but costing too much for how long it lasts. I like it, I'll try it, but I sincerely hope that the race to PS9 and beyond becomes less of a focus with Connor Nets and TLTs floating about the place or this hypothetical ship's going to be vulnerable to a LOT of stuff.

never stopped corran, though

thing with Super Ten Numb is that he is so defensively incapable that it's sad (1 agility...that's it)

super Corran is very defensively capable (ptl for focus + evade, 3 agi, r2-d2), as is the hypothetical Ps 8 hypothetical x-wing pilot (ability, thrusters, r2-d2/r5-p9) and he's cheaper