Stress anyone with a recon spec, and boost into range 1 holes. If TLT doesnt have a focus, Sensor Jammer and Autothrusters make you nearly invincible.

Punishers and Mara Jade

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (23)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Mara Jade (3)
Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (23)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Extra Munitions (2)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Your damage output is terrible with that squad.

Given the low PS and poor maneuverability of TLT list they should be weak against alpha strikes, right? N'dru with clusters, Stim and LW will single handily take out a hwk, and be darn close on the Y-wing. Not sure what else should be in the list. Three TLT's maybe :/

Given the low PS and poor maneuverability of TLT list they should be weak against alpha strikes, right? N'dru with clusters, Stim and LW will single handily take out a hwk, and be darn close on the Y-wing. Not sure what else should be in the list. Three TLT's maybe :/

4 tlt's is definitely a gamble. It will come down to how much of your list they drop before they lose a y wing. If you're running chiraneu fel and they drop fel before losing one of there own the game will probably be theres.

I love tlt against auto thrusters. Those dice will fail at some point and it doesn't take many hits drop an anchor like fel. Take out your red and green dice and play it out your self. 24 red dice isn't bad.

Given the low PS and poor maneuverability of TLT list they should be weak against alpha strikes, right? N'dru with clusters, Stim and LW will single handily take out a hwk, and be darn close on the Y-wing. Not sure what else should be in the list. Three TLT's maybe :/

Yeah, the trick there is getting him into R2 without getting smoked. You don't want to be chasing ANYTHING in a Z-95.

A 25ish point N'Dru for the alpha strike, Guri for turret defense and maneuver shenanigans, and 35-40 points of 2-3 supporting fighters doesn't look bad . All of those elements are solid against fat turrets as well as TLT masses. That's also enough points for a decent YV-666. Scum have a lot of good options there.

First off, I am more than happy to see anything shift the meta. Something to take Soontir down a peg? Maybe shift towards having a hull upgrade instead of stealth? I'll take it. Something to take down fat turrets? Ha! I'd love to see any shift in the meta. I'm terribly excited about this. Something that might shift the game towards something more like a 4 ship build without too many points into one ship? I'd be more than happy.

I for one cannot see TLT-spam becoming a thing. There cannot possibly exist a duller list to play. Ugh.

Really? I can. How about dual YT's. Howlrunner and Tie Swarms. YT and Corn Hole. Lots of currently competitive lists that I find horribly dull.

If you're Soontir, don't dive for the Feedback holes. Stay at range (preferably 2) of 1 TLT and pick it apart before moving on to the next.

That's a hysterical idea! How many TLT's can you fit in with some Feedback Arrays? Maybe 3 TLT's and 2 Z-95's with Feedback Array for when Soontir gets close?

You want a way to take out TLT's fast? What about ordnance? Yeah, everyone hates them and still think they suck, but they can do it. You can combo stuff to get your synergy and hit them hard. Take one out fast and the TLT list won't be able to dish out the damage fast enough.

I think Kavil with TLT could be a real thing. He would have a much better chance at hitting and taking out Soontir and/or Phantoms. Hells to the yeah!

Can Jan Ors boost both attacks of a TLT to add a die to both? That could be something.

Horton hears a TLT in his future. Re-roll all blanks? Yes, please.

Given the low PS and poor maneuverability of TLT list they should be weak against alpha strikes, right? N'dru with clusters, Stim and LW will single handily take out a hwk, and be darn close on the Y-wing. Not sure what else should be in the list. Three TLT's maybe :/

Yeah, the trick there is getting him into R2 without getting smoked. You don't want to be chasing ANYTHING in a Z-95.

A 25ish point N'Dru for the alpha strike, Guri for turret defense and maneuver shenanigans, and 35-40 points of 2-3 supporting fighters doesn't look bad . All of those elements are solid against fat turrets as well as TLT masses. That's also enough points for a decent YV-666. Scum have a lot of good options there.

If I'm flying a cluster N'dru in theory I want it to be alongside something that's an even more attractive target like an HLC Scyk, but those have got a life expectancy against TLTs that makes the Twenty-Minuters look like grizzled veterans.

Speaking of Scyks, what about Laetin w/ Stealth Device and either a Mangler or HLC? He gets 4 evade dice and each attack he misses, he gets a free evade token. Always have him Focus for defense or throw out the first Evade token. Could go bad if you blow the first evade of the turn, but you could really clean up some TLT with him.

Heyyyy. Much maligned Laetin is really solid against TLT. The next question is what else to include.

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm not lying when I say this: I would enjoy a fortress dominated meta more than a Fat Turretwing one.

Also, at least they aren't moving around. Should make them easier to deal with.

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm not lying when I say this: I would enjoy a fortress dominated meta more than a Fat Turretwing one.

Also, at least they aren't moving around. Should make them easier to deal with.

How would you deal with such a fortress?

Heyyyy. Much maligned Laetin is really solid against TLT. The next question is what else to include.

It's almost like they knew it was coming out or something when they designed Laetin....

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm not lying when I say this: I would enjoy a fortress dominated meta more than a Fat Turretwing one.

Also, at least they aren't moving around. Should make them easier to deal with.

How would you deal with such a fortress?

Massed firepower with a conventional pre-ruined nuanceless 2 ship meta list, like a swarm or quad B Wings or 5x Autoceptor. Unmodified dice suck and that's what my opponent would be using if he were to remain in the fortress when I attacked it. If he instead broke the fortress when I got close that would work out too since my opponent's ships would be in one small area and easy to predict.

If he's fortressed/recently unfortressed, the doughnut hole will be a huge factor. Since they'll be in one area and easy to predict you'll be able to close to range one easily.

Either your quad TLT opponent keeps them tightly grouped up and moving as one super YTurretwing in which case it's just a mobile fortress and he gets better action economy and gains maneuverability, or my opponent keeps all his ships stationary/stationary until the last moment and gains nothing.

Lt. Blount — 17

— Vet Instincts — 1

— XX-23 S-Thread Tracers — 1

Bandit Sq Pilot — 12

— Concussion Missile — 4

X5

—> 99 points

THERE'S your alpha strike. All six move up and focus, fire missiles until dead. Works on YTs/Decimators too if you can keep them in-arc. Hopefully you're beating the TLTs on initiative to fire missiles before you are tempted to spend Focus tokens, but if nothing else you get simultaneous fire. Of course if you're really concerned, drop a missile and bump up four Bandits to Talas.

Lt. Blount — 17

— Vet Instincts — 1

— XX-23 S-Thread Tracers — 1

Bandit Sq Pilot — 12

— Concussion Missile — 4

X5

—> 99 points

THERE'S your alpha strike. All six move up and focus, fire missiles until dead. Works on YTs/Decimators too if you can keep them in-arc. Hopefully you're beating the TLTs on initiative to fire missiles before you are tempted to spend Focus tokens, but if nothing else you get simultaneous fire. Of course if you're really concerned, drop a missile and bump up four Bandits to Talas.

I like this alot.

But, as with Phantoms, the real test of the TLT power level will be whether you will need to build all lists around specific counters to TLT or not. Dont forget that Phantoms could always be countered, it just took a lot of list building effort to do so. Time will tell if this situation is similar.

For the trolls: No i'm not suggesting TLT=Phantoms in any way.

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm not lying when I say this: I would enjoy a fortress dominated meta more than a Fat Turretwing one.

Also, at least they aren't moving around. Should make them easier to deal with.

You're hatred is causing you to say insane things. Have you thought what a fortress vs fortress game would be like. Hell, have you even seen or experienced a game where the first 45 minutes is just going up and down the edges.

TLTs make for terrible fortresses

why would you use inefficient jousters (not terribly inefficient, but not in the same league as ships like the tie or B) with a minimum range as a fortress when you could be circling around obstacles and spitting out 360 degree fire?

sure, actions aren't as important when you get two attacks, but those modifiers can easily be the difference between 1 damage and 0. Losing them to bumping in a list that doesn't benefit crap from fortressing anyway seems a tad pointless.

Lt. Blount — 17

— Vet Instincts — 1

— XX-23 S-Thread Tracers — 1

Bandit Sq Pilot — 12

— Concussion Missile — 4

X5

—> 99 points

THERE'S your alpha strike. All six move up and focus, fire missiles until dead. Works on YTs/Decimators too if you can keep them in-arc. Hopefully you're beating the TLTs on initiative to fire missiles before you are tempted to spend Focus tokens, but if nothing else you get simultaneous fire. Of course if you're really concerned, drop a missile and bump up four Bandits to Talas.

This works great vs. almost any list, really. I'd use the Concussions on Soontir instead of the Decimator. I mean, that's 5 shots with a 93% of getting at least 3 hits. How many of those can he evade? He runs out of tokens pretty fast. Any list usually has that one ship that's crucial to their strategy. Heck, even if it's 4 generics with TLT's or B-wings or whatever, you pound one to dust fast enough and their strategy falls apart.

Brobots would probably be the worst thing to face off against because the high agility combined with the high shield/hull makes them annoying. With Soontir, a couple of bad rolls and he's dead. Brobots need to miss a lot of dice to die to them.

I'm concerned that 4 y wing TLTs will be able to fortress super effectively in a corner. They already aren't action reliant, and approaching that sounds awful.

I'm not lying when I say this: I would enjoy a fortress dominated meta more than a Fat Turretwing one.

Also, at least they aren't moving around. Should make them easier to deal with.

You're hatred is causing you to say insane things. Have you thought what a fortress vs fortress game would be like. Hell, have you even seen or experienced a game where the first 45 minutes is just going up and down the edges.

*Your

If 2 players mutually agree to stalemate, fine by me.

It's not like manuevering in the dumb pancake meta matters anyways.

I like this alot.

But, as with Phantoms, the real test of the TLT power level will be whether you will need to build all lists around specific counters to TLT or not. Dont forget that Phantoms could always be countered, it just took a lot of list building effort to do so. Time will tell if this situation is similar.

For the trolls: No i'm not suggesting TLT=Phantoms in any way.

I completely agree! I think PtL Squints and Brobots would have an easy time waltzing past this list if they can stay out-of-arc or at Range 3, and Phantoms would eat it for breakfast. Like you said, the trick is a lot of effort in list-building. I think Blount and Tracers could be an interesting combo as we move forward (nobody else is guaranteed a hit like he is, and a point for the missile is definitely worth the investment), the trick is striking the right balance. I think two of the Headhunters could be swapped out for something a little more intimidating (K-Wing with TLT?) but I'm going to sit on it until Wave VIII haha.

the "problem" with the metric of TLTs requiring specific counters is that their counters aren't actually specific

thrusters counter TLTs; they also counter PWTs

jousters counter TLTs (in a straight up slug match); they also counter PWTs (in a straight up slug match)

so really, this is a "problem" in that it's a great thing for any balanced game

jousters counter TLTs (in a straight up slug match); they also counter PWTs (in a straight up slug match)

Wait what, weren't you the guy hating on PWTs because they were running circles around jousters? That doesnt make any sense.

jousters counter TLTs (in a straight up slug match); they also counter PWTs (in a straight up slug match)

Wait what, weren't you the guy hating on PWTs because they were running circles around jousters? That doesnt make any sense.

I think he's saying that PWTs die horribly if they joust with jousters, or fail to arc-dodge at some level. Which they do - but rarely are they flown so badly.

TLTs are different in that they aren't as mobile as a typical PWT. They've got small bases, and lackluster dials, and a lot of the early lists have them moving at low-PS. Their maneuvers may not be so hard to follow as a large-base boosting (or BR-boosting) ship with a really good dial, moving after the opposition.

If their maneuvers aren't hard to follow and they can be reliable held in-arc, then efficient jousters have a good chance of taking out TLT carriers in my estimation.