You can spread out tlts, and serve the stragglers on a silver platter. These aren't hyper turrets; they're slow cluncky **** without EU. If your opponent can't burn them down then you're playing them right (because that's a bit of a feat to do with ys and hwks; not the most traditionally maneuverable ships)

If you don't position properly, you're going to be devoured

Of course if you run into xs you kinda autowin. Xs aren't very good

Everyone else can joust them to death

No because the TLTs wont be jousting. You can spread them out however you want, their fire zone overlap is huge.

I can only imagine the hilarity of some guy trying to charge into 4TLT with Xwings, BWings and z95 (just to name some basic non-AT ships). They're barely faster than Ys (or not at all if youre a B) and you'll be loosing atleast one ship per round no matter what. Oh and you have to guess the TLTs moves right 100% of the time or else they'll just get free shots on you while you're repositioning. Good luck.

You mean like how it is vs. normal Fat Turretwing?

Quad Y's lose firepower as they die off and won't have high PS or a large ship boost/barrel roll. They won't get a bunch of free dice modifications. Chances are you'll evade a few of the shots, it's not 8 auto damage unless you're flying 0/1 agility. It's a much more tame Turretwing that plays more like the normal game. No point fortressing, no hypermobility, no hyper dice shenanigans (albeit always attacking twice is a bit shenanigan-y), no high PS.

[on paper they seem to punish hyper mobile fat turrets and the two ship meta in general besides for perhaps dual IG's and seem to reward high having many ships and massing your firepower.

That was my impression of them too, but virtually everyone seems to be saying that they also shred low hp/high agility targets (i.e. arc dodgers) as well and now Vorpal and Juggler are saying that the noticeably increase jousting efficiency as well. So according to the people who have actually played against them, as well as the people who can crunch the numbers better, they destroy both rock and scissors easily, and are really good against paper.

You can easily proxy the turret and see for yourself. Any non-AT arc dodger gets shredded fast, and even with AT your low hp means you wont last that long.

The key is to spread your 4 TLT out a little once the opponent charges in. The discussion here largely assumes that 4TLT have to fly together, they dont have to do that at all,

R2-3is a huge radius of overlapping fire. So just spread out a little once you get charged and whichever ship you want to die first will be facing 4-6TLT shots even if they managed to 'hide' behind one of your ships. Not many pilots in the game will be able to take this much punishment for long. Or you just roll with triple-K and have no doughnut at all.

Starting close and spreading later won't necessarily solve the problem. Avoiding one or two turrets by being at close range is still really advantageous. I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of maneuver counterplays to them, and better players will be able to shift the advantage to their side, no matter which side that is. So overall I'm looking forward to them.

How do things look for a BTL-4 Y-Wing with a TLT? Is that 3 Attacks in a turn? Obviously you have to have something in arc, but is that worth adding a pair to a couple of HWK for a list?

Jacob

How do things look for a BTL-4 Y-Wing with a TLT? Is that 3 Attacks in a turn? Obviously you have to have something in arc, but is that worth adding a pair to a couple of HWK for a list?

Jacob

The interesting thing is that a good counter to quad TLT are BTL Y-Wings. A counter to Y Turretwing will be massed firepower from arc based ships. Unlike current Turretwing where a fat turret is hypermobile and massing firepower with arcs is difficult and your best option is just to take your own fat turret and just hope you win in the ensuing dice off.

Super pumped for the new meta where being rewarded for good (formation) flying and nuance returns. Where Mid-low PS bidding is a thing again.

Personally not super sold on btl-a4 tlts. The extra primary feels like a downgrade and ion's just too good with it

Part of flying with tlt is being able to outmaneuver the enemy using obstacles. Lock the tlt in arc and that becomes impossible with the stiff, boost/roll-less Ys

With ion, outmaneuvering anything is a cinch

I think that the TLT will be something that has to be considered when building a squad.

I think Balance is going to be the key when using them.

I am thinking something like;

Gold Squadron Pilot (24) x 2 Y-Wing (18), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0), R2 Astromech (1), Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Rebel Operative (25) x 2 HWK-290 (16), Twin Laser Turret (6), Recon Specialist (3)

Should give a good balance and be a pain for most meta lists to fly against.

Ironically Biggs walks the Dogs should go fine against it...

Kris

I wonder how concussion missile Z swarms stack up vs TLT swarms? Especially when the inquisitor's guidance chip drops...

Its interesting that Miranda w/ crew R2 can hold off a single TLT forever.

If she couldn't I don't think she'd have a home in the coming meta.

@MajorJuggler: found my error. The first attack was "passing" the focus, but I was using the no-focus PDF twice for the two possible states of the second attack, rather than one focus PDF and one no-focus PDF. I'll fix the topic post tomorrow.

@Celes: TLTs are dangerous but beatable. What's been your experience with the build strategies and table tactics I outlined in the topic post? They've all worked for me.

I think 3x Oynx Squadron and 3x TIE MK 2 will do a decent job at countering quad TLT.

Black Eight Squadron

-Sensor Jammer

-Autothrusters

9 HP per ship that only takes 1 damage per focus token, and boosts into range 1 blind spots. Can field up to 3 with some ordinance suppport

29 points for jammies Sigmas

32 for int agent + SPA

sniff out where they're going, cut em off, shoot em up

The new meta is going to be intense. Generic phantoms FTW. Don't forget that ACD on a Sigma triggers before PS 2 can fire.

Let me add that a 96 point build with quad TLT Y Wings and nothing else is worthy of consideration. When you've lost 2 Y Wings you want your opponent to have to work for a win with a 48 point Corran.

I wonder how concussion missile Z swarms stack up vs TLT swarms? Especially when the inquisitor's guidance chip drops...

Its interesting that Miranda w/ crew R2 can hold off a single TLT forever.

Wanna share your Z swarms?

I wonder how concussion missile Z swarms stack up vs TLT swarms? Especially when the inquisitor's guidance chip drops...

Its interesting that Miranda w/ crew R2 can hold off a single TLT forever.

Wanna share your Z swarms?

Away from a builder ATM, but some variation of Cracken (with either squad leader or swarm tactics) +bandits or talas with Concussion missiles.

Built against a TLT swarm, Talas can get TLs on their own against anyone that isnt named, (and so dont need Craken) and come to 17 points with a Concussion missile. If Guidance Chip is 1 point (mod, usable once per munition) then that's 90 points for 5.

I wonder how concussion missile Z swarms stack up vs TLT swarms? Especially when the inquisitor's guidance chip drops...

Its interesting that Miranda w/ crew R2 can hold off a single TLT forever.

Wanna share your Z swarms?

Away from a builder ATM, but some variation of Cracken (with either squad leader or swarm tactics) +bandits or talas with Concussion missiles.

Built against a TLT swarm, Talas can get TLs on their own against anyone that isnt named, (and so dont need Craken) and come to 17 points with a Concussion missile. If Guidance Chip is 1 point (mod, usable once per munition) then that's 90 points for 5.

whats guidance chip actually? you dont mean the xx-23 tracers right?

whats guidance chip actually? you dont mean the xx-23 tracers right?

Gui... C... (Guidance Chip?, "When atta... <missile> secon... may chang... <hit> resul... your prim... "0"...")

Could also be "You cannot equip this card if your primary weapon value is "3" or higher."

cool. lets seee how it happens.

anyway, back to TLTs. did anyone find some good counter builds? I tried some 4TLT today. Definitely not bad. But not amazing/game breaking like fat turrets.

I messed around with 4x HWKs with RecSpec. That is definitely the offensively tilted version of the list. Being able to modify each attack is pretty great, but HWK dial doesn't give much to work with in the maneuver game.

I think 3x Oynx Squadron and 3x TIE MK 2 will do a decent job at countering quad TLT.

Been thinking about running this on Vassal for a while now. Not super competitive but fun enough.

Is recon spec hwk or y wing better for durability? :/. I think the rec spec hwk sounds nice. Also it's just funny imagine winning a tourney with 4 hwks

Is recon spec hwk or y wing better for durability? :/. I think the rec spec hwk sounds nice. Also it's just funny imagine winning a tourney with 4 hwks

Imagine:

Torkhil Mux & 3* Spice Runners, all with TLT.

Leaving 9 pts for upgrades. Perhaps 4* Glitterstim.

Black Eight Squadron

-Sensor Jammer

-Autothrusters

9 HP per ship that only takes 1 damage per focus token, and boosts into range 1 blind spots. Can field up to 3 with some ordinance suppport

Also has manuevering systems borrowed from a Lambda.

The new meta is going to be intense. Generic phantoms FTW. Don't forget that ACD on a Sigma triggers before PS 2 can fire.

Intense is an interesting an, I think, accurate descriptor. I think the average game length will increase, simply because firepower of squads will necessarily go up to thin the herd of massed TLTs to make counter-maneuvers easier.