I do hope Wave 9 has a ship with Sensor Jammers. As much as I am enjoying a Shuttle w/Palpatine, I'm not too eager for a second shuttle.

Could have had a good place in the Ghost expansion, oh well.

I think one possible interesting counter to TLTs is... TLTs. I ran a couple BTLA4 Y wings with TLT a couple days ago and they absolutely tore AGI 1 stuff apart (pretty solid against AGI 3 as well). I had PS4, so my Ys both hit harder and hit earlier than spammed turret versions of the weapon. One more reasonably punchy ship and you stand a very good chance if dropping a budget TLT carrier before it even gets to fire.

I think one possible interesting counter to TLTs is... TLTs. I ran a couple BTLA4 Y wings with TLT a couple days ago and they absolutely tore AGI 1 stuff apart (pretty solid against AGI 3 as well). I had PS4, so my Ys both hit harder and hit earlier than spammed turret versions of the weapon. One more reasonably punchy ship and you stand a very good chance if dropping a budget TLT carrier before it even gets to fire.

I think that especially once you start talking about the BTL-A4 title, this is a subset of the general principle that you can pretty easily out-joust a list with 4 TLTs--their efficiency is good for a turret, but not particularly impressive in comparison to a Z-95 or B-wing.

I think one possible interesting counter to TLTs is... TLTs. I ran a couple BTLA4 Y wings with TLT a couple days ago and they absolutely tore AGI 1 stuff apart (pretty solid against AGI 3 as well). I had PS4, so my Ys both hit harder and hit earlier than spammed turret versions of the weapon. One more reasonably punchy ship and you stand a very good chance if dropping a budget TLT carrier before it even gets to fire.

I think that especially once you start talking about the BTL-A4 title, this is a subset of the general principle that you can pretty easily out-joust a list with 4 TLTs--their efficiency is good for a turret, but not particularly impressive in comparison to a Z-95 or B-wing.

A PS2 Y-wing with TLT and BTL-A4 title has a higher jousting efficiency than a naked B-wing, although, depending on some assumptions about what happens when you would normally just take your range 1 shot, possibly not quite as high as a bandit Z-95.

biggest NPE

What?

Null Pointer Exception. It's a bad thing.

I think one possible interesting counter to TLTs is... TLTs. I ran a couple BTLA4 Y wings with TLT a couple days ago and they absolutely tore AGI 1 stuff apart (pretty solid against AGI 3 as well). I had PS4, so my Ys both hit harder and hit earlier than spammed turret versions of the weapon. One more reasonably punchy ship and you stand a very good chance if dropping a budget TLT carrier before it even gets to fire.

I think that especially once you start talking about the BTL-A4 title, this is a subset of the general principle that you can pretty easily out-joust a list with 4 TLTs--their efficiency is good for a turret, but not particularly impressive in comparison to a Z-95 or B-wing.

A PS2 Y-wing with TLT and BTL-A4 title has a higher jousting efficiency than a naked B-wing, although, depending on some assumptions about what happens when you would normally just take your range 1 shot, possibly not quite as high as a bandit Z-95.

I meant that if you want to beat TLTs that don't have BTL-A4, I agree with Biophysical that BTL-A4 with either ions or TLT is a good way to do it. Sorry if that wasn't clear!

biggest NPE

What?

Null Pointer Exception. It's a bad thing.

Negative Play Experience.

I can confirm that Sensor Sigmas + Carnor is incredibly mean to TLT lists.

These TLT's sound a lot better on paper than they will do in practice, that 2-3 range limitation on immobile Y's and Hwk's is a killer and they make very soft targets at close range for just about everything. You can expect to lose a ship every round like clock work against pretty much every list ever made and there are very few lists you can kill doing the average 4 hits this list can produce each round and likely only for the first two to three rounds at if your lucky.

The TLT is a response mostly to large ship lists and is really only effective against them which is good because there is way too much focus on big ships in this game already.

TLT... = Weak Status.

These TLT's sound a lot better on paper than they will do in practice, that 2-3 range limitation on immobile Y's and Hwk's is a killer and they make very soft targets at close range for just about everything. You can expect to lose a ship every round like clock work against pretty much every list ever made and there are very few lists you can kill doing the average 4 hits this list can produce each round and likely only for the first two to three rounds at if your lucky.

The TLT is a response mostly to large ship lists and is really only effective against them which is good because there is way too much focus on big ships in this game already.

TLT... = Weak Status.

Must be some exceptional players winning nationals events with such a weak list!

These TLT's sound a lot better on paper than they will do in practice, that 2-3 range limitation on immobile Y's and Hwk's is a killer and they make very soft targets at close range for just about everything. You can expect to lose a ship every round like clock work against pretty much every list ever made and there are very few lists you can kill doing the average 4 hits this list can produce each round and likely only for the first two to three rounds at if your lucky.

The TLT is a response mostly to large ship lists and is really only effective against them which is good because there is way too much focus on big ships in this game already.

TLT... = Weak Status.

Try predicting where those "immobile" Y-Wings are going to be with a full range of speed 3 moves, all green.

These TLT's sound a lot better on paper than they will do in practice, that 2-3 range limitation on immobile Y's and Hwk's is a killer and they make very soft targets at close range for just about everything. You can expect to lose a ship every round like clock work against pretty much every list ever made and there are very few lists you can kill doing the average 4 hits this list can produce each round and likely only for the first two to three rounds at if your lucky.

The TLT is a response mostly to large ship lists and is really only effective against them which is good because there is way too much focus on big ships in this game already.

TLT... = Weak Status.

Must be some exceptional players winning nationals events with such a weak list!

National Results

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/178660-2015-nationals-results/

Could you point me to where someone won nationals using a TLT list, because I can't find it and I would be very interested to see those matches.

From what I have seen from nationals its be IG-88 List, Dash and Han lists that have been winning nationals. Am I looking in the wrong place?

These TLT's sound a lot better on paper than they will do in practice, that 2-3 range limitation on immobile Y's and Hwk's is a killer and they make very soft targets at close range for just about everything. You can expect to lose a ship every round like clock work against pretty much every list ever made and there are very few lists you can kill doing the average 4 hits this list can produce each round and likely only for the first two to three rounds at if your lucky.

The TLT is a response mostly to large ship lists and is really only effective against them which is good because there is way too much focus on big ships in this game already.

TLT... = Weak Status.

Must be some exceptional players winning nationals events with such a weak list!

National Results

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/178660-2015-nationals-results/

Could you point me to where someone won nationals using a TLT list, because I can't find it and I would be very interested to see those matches.

From what I have seen from nationals its be IG-88 List, Dash and Han lists that have been winning nationals. Am I looking in the wrong place?

MJ didnt update the post yet. They won Spanish and Polish Nationals since coming out, 130+ participants each. There is another thread just about nationals and 4 TLT which should still be on the first page.

This is pretty significant since they're the biggest wave 7 results yet (most nationals were wave6).

I have a good 3 ship rebel build that actually does a great job against tlt y wings. It's my new tournament build actually

Keep trying new things. The key is to put ships on the mat and try things out. Theory crafting can be a good start but it can't be the end all of your decision and strategy making. When playing against them you're naturally going to get better in general and you're gonna find things that work and some that don't and some stuff that may surprise ya. Also play them against different people!

I think one possible interesting counter to TLTs is... TLTs. I ran a couple BTLA4 Y wings with TLT a couple days ago and they absolutely tore AGI 1 stuff apart (pretty solid against AGI 3 as well). I had PS4, so my Ys both hit harder and hit earlier than spammed turret versions of the weapon. One more reasonably punchy ship and you stand a very good chance if dropping a budget TLT carrier before it even gets to fire.

I think that especially once you start talking about the BTL-A4 title, this is a subset of the general principle that you can pretty easily out-joust a list with 4 TLTs--their efficiency is good for a turret, but not particularly impressive in comparison to a Z-95 or B-wing.

A PS2 Y-wing with TLT and BTL-A4 title has a higher jousting efficiency than a naked B-wing, although, depending on some assumptions about what happens when you would normally just take your range 1 shot, possibly not quite as high as a bandit Z-95.

Importantly, also, is that its relative strength peak is early in the initial merge. The B-wing and Z-95 are nastiest up close. The BTL-A4 TLT Y-wing (there has to be a shorter name) has its greatest advantage (compared to conventional jousters) at Range 3, due to much of its damage coming from secondary weapons. Therefore, during a jouster vs jouster situation, you're hitting harder earlier. Remove some Zs or Bs or TIE Fighters before they can fire at maximum efficiency, and your in-game damage advantage should be even more than the "in a box" theoretical jousting efficiency. A mild PS bid to 4 compounds this advantage even further.

As an aside, I'm going to propose "Invader" be the nickname for BTL-A4 TLT Y-wings. Warthogs has been used for BTL-A4 TLT Y-wings, but principally in relation to Ion Cannon Turrets. Warthog-TLT isn't much easier to type than BTL-A4 TLT (although it's a bit easier to say). The A-26 Invader seems to have a lot of similarity, for reasons that I hope will be obvious from the picture below. Look at the nose on that thing.

The BTL-A4 TLT Y-wing (there has to be a shorter name)

These terms are redundant. I recommend "TLT BTL-A4" or the phonetically shorter "Twin laser A4 Y-wing"

How do generic T-70's with Autothrusters stand up to TLT Y-wings? I can see maybe one shot getting through a turn, but I'd think that they would be pretty resilient. I mean, they would take some damage, but not all of it.

How do generic T-70's with Autothrusters stand up to TLT Y-wings? I can see maybe one shot getting through a turn, but I'd think that they would be pretty resilient. I mean, they would take some damage, but not all of it.

It depends on who you are talking about. Poe laughs in the face of TLTs. Red Ace is also going to be tough. The generics would be a bit more troublesome than other ships. Autothrusters helps a lot, sure, but I think it puts it into the area where the unmodified shots become a bit more difficult.

The BTL-A4 TLT Y-wing (there has to be a shorter name)

These terms are redundant. I recommend "TLT BTL-A4" or the phonetically shorter "Twin laser A4 Y-wing"

Good point.

How do generic T-70's with Autothrusters stand up to TLT Y-wings? I can see maybe one shot getting through a turn, but I'd think that they would be pretty resilient. I mean, they would take some damage, but not all of it.

It depends on who you are talking about. Poe laughs in the face of TLTs. Red Ace is also going to be tough. The generics would be a bit more troublesome than other ships. Autothrusters helps a lot, sure, but I think it puts it into the area where the unmodified shots become a bit more difficult.

I was thinking generics. Too bad you can't have 4 w/ autothrusters.

How do generic T-70's with Autothrusters stand up to TLT Y-wings? I can see maybe one shot getting through a turn, but I'd think that they would be pretty resilient. I mean, they would take some damage, but not all of it.

It depends on who you are talking about. Poe laughs in the face of TLTs. Red Ace is also going to be tough. The generics would be a bit more troublesome than other ships. Autothrusters helps a lot, sure, but I think it puts it into the area where the unmodified shots become a bit more difficult.

I was thinking generics. Too bad you can't have 4 w/ autothrusters.

May want some math on it, but my impression is that a T-70 w/Authothrusters + Integrated Astromech could be annoying for a TLT to chew through. At the worst, they need all 4 to kill you.

if you despise tlts and nothing else, you could always roll bb-8 + ptl + thrusters Poe with two Red Vets w/Predator and thrusters

that's some list tailoring if I ever saw it

if you despise tlts and nothing else, you could always roll bb-8 + ptl + thrusters Poe with two Red Vets w/Predator and thrusters

that's some list tailoring if I ever saw it

Sound like a pretty solid list

Graz the Hunter is also not bad. Oh, you won't block all the hits, but you will stop more than if you didn't. Throw on Glitterstim for that first round and you should be sitting pretty. If you force them to spend too many shots to take Graz down, the rest of your list should make short work of them (if you build it right and fly right).

if you despise tlts and nothing else, you could always roll bb-8 + ptl + thrusters Poe with two Red Vets w/Predator and thrusters

that's some list tailoring if I ever saw it

Sound like a pretty solid list

soon as the T-70 expac hits, I will be running it

with the small change of one Red Vet exchanging Predator for Wired + R3-A2 to (hopefully) challenge pilots that can out PS Poe