This is the conclusion me and my practice buddy came to after a few test games. This thing is going to become the new meta in wave 7 in our opinion.

Here's a few quick tidbits:

- The TLT is a force multiplier. 1-2 of them dont hurt that much, but once you run 3-4 things get crazy. Even without title we're talking 8x3 360 degree attacks a round here. 4Y or 4HWK with TLT melt anything <3 agility, and 3agility usually have very low hp (save for aggressors).

Even my Dash with LW died in 2 turns (took 4-6Damage a turn despite 2agi+lone wolf reroll).

Decimators and YT1300 dont even stand a chance, i tried Han once but he took the full 8 damage on the initial approach.

-the donut hole isnt nearly as bad as with the outrider if you run 4 of these things. Just spread out a little after the initial engagement and it will be nearly impossible for your opponent to stay out in R1 of EVERYBODY. And lest we forget, these ships have their regular primary attacks in the front arc, so the donut hole isnt even that big in the first place.

-4Y have 32 HP to chew through. HWK seem more fragile(we all knew that), but slap a recon spec on them and even they will have decent survivability (can also put a torkil iinstead for additional debuffs). So these lists aren't exactly fragile, even if you manage to hide in R1 for 1-2turns they can take some beating. Unless you can drop 1Y per round i hardly see a list winning the damage race here.

-Ys have that fairly long 4k-turn, so even if you hide behind in R1 you're facing 12 dice the next turn. Probably unmodified, but thats still 12dice coming at you. And you've likely already taken quite some damage closing that gap. Good luck

-The TLT being (under-)costed at 6 means you've still got room for some goodies even if you run 4. 2 Ion bombs incase someone hides behind? Sure, we've got you covered. Or maybe 1ion and 1R3A2 stressbot to make gettting into R1 even harder instead? Sure, we can do that.

-My Buddies 3elite Interceptor list got shredded to pieces, and this looks like one of their better matchups on paper. This guy isn't a noob, he might not be Paul Heaver but he has placed reasonably well in tournaments. The Squints just couldnt close the R1 gap in one turn, Carnor died despite PTL focus+evade, the next turn Fel+Turr managed to hide in R1, then the Ys spread out and Turr was dealing with 2-3TLTs a turn(4-6shots). Long story short, Fel vs 3Y took a bit longer but he never had a chance, really.

-Unless you get the perfect approach and/or the opponent messes up you're not going to close that R1 gap in one round with 99% of the lists out there, meaning you're taking that TLT punishment. This leaves very little room for error while the other guy basically has to fly 1forward or 2hard in the direction that is facing away from you (simplified, but these 4TLT lists arent exactly hard to fly).

-If you already enjoyed the PWT dicefest wait until you see 4TLT vs 4TLT mirror matches. We tried that once just for fun, it wasn't fun

-Save for going full swarm (7-8Tie or BBBBZ) or some very specific counter list we currently cant see anything better than running mass TLT. Is this really where the meta is headed ?

Thanks for reading,for once in my life i wanted to be the first to start a rant thread.

Looks like my son's favorite ships might become deadly!

Yep. Place rocks close, fly loops around. Win. Repeat.

I imagine an alpha strike with burst damage would be an interesting matchup against the TLT Y's. Maybe something like 4 Advanced with AC and Cluster Missiles? you're pretty much guaranteed to kill a Y-Wing and severely damage another.

Why does 3xSquint look like one of the better matchups? It's 9HP behind 9-12AGI, you only need 1 bad roll to lose tokens, and after that it's a pile of 3v3s.

You need shields at least. Heck, I (fluked) Vader at 4xTLT yesterday, took 4hp on the first engage, and then got ~4 more turns on that final hull.

It's really not that bad

Tlts mulch low ago; are practically worthless against thrusters. Aggressors in particular are basically auto-loss for them.

It's really not that bad

Tlts mulch low ago; are practically worthless against thrusters. Aggressors in particular are basically auto-loss for them.

I'm afraid you have it exactly backwards.

Could leave room for the TIE swarm to mount a comeback. Three agility has a chance to dodge the turret, and the low agility of Y-Wings makes them ideal prey for the TIEs.

On the bright side... it's 4 ships instead of two!

Seriously, I think swarms have more than a fair chance against this 'terror list.' Having flown Y-Wings (poorly) at nationals, I know they can drop a fighter a turn.

Yeah, the opponent's really dangerous ships don't have to get in the R1 bubble of ALL the TLT carriers, just robbing a couple of them of their ability to concentrate fire each round might well tip the balance. They're going to be something you need to have a plan for in your build but they're not pre-nerf Phantoms or anything.

Bro-bots will eat your Y's for breakfast. 4B's probably win fairly easily as well. 4 Tie advanced lists should be OK. Black squadron swarms might be good.

Ships that often take 2 damage an attack don't mind TLT at all. Decimator don't care.

Sounds like my rebel swarms is getting a boost.

Telling me it mulches Dash and Han and Decimators doesn't bother me. Imagine that.

Alright so I'll elaborate

I've run tlts since I could get my grubby MIT's on my buddy's kwings. Let me tell you how they pan out:

1) while youd think you'd get a reliable two damage out of each shot, you couldn't be further from the truth. Fickle green dice work both ways, and fickle reds roll 1 hit all the **** time (very easy to evade).

2.) I repeat, thrusters wreck these things . unless you're farting out modified attacks, 3 agi with blank to evade will stonewall you. At range 3 they're getting it no matter what; at range 1 you don't get tlts. It's a **** delicate dance to get range 2 + arc (or just hope your opponent gets unlucky)

3.) The ships that can take tlt are ks hwks and us. These guys are not terribly intimidating at range 1 (Miranda excluded)

4.) Against Dash, it's again all about his ability. Your tlt versus his 3 greens (possibly focus) pale compared to his HLC versus your 2 greens. If dash is allowing himself to get swissed, then that's on the player. Ks, ys, and hwks aren't terribly maneuverable and without mods tlt is anything but reliable.

I've been flying miri (tlt + c3po) warden (tlt + nets + munis) and a Goldie (tlt + r4-d6, else the poor **** gets mulched by hlcs) and enjoying rolling through new Vader's and old Hans (best moment of xwing = laughing as han was doomed to auto-loss against 3 functioning tlts. Where's your PWT now, you fat bastard!?)

Sadly, aggressors are simply a hard counter. Even after dropping nets and never suffering a turn where they could combine fire on a target, C left laughing at 1 hull and B at 3. Thrusters and green duce spikes are a bane, as are hlcs (or boosts into range 1; 4 reds) against your measly 1 agility

At least soontir you can net and burn; these big guys take a lot more punishment

Overall very fun list, but very vulnerable to getting focused down and requires some **** good play. Without obstacles to scatter swarms (letting you focus down individuals), you basically get outdiced. Range 3 is advantage for sure, but 2 greens aren't exactly a panacea for all the **** that this game can throw at you.

I've been looking for a good excuse to use two HWKs in a squad, and the TLT definitely makes that more appealing. I haven't decided what I want to pair them with yet, though.

TLTs are going to change the metagame for sure. So stop running current metagame lists against them, and start experimenting.

1) while youd think you'd get a reliable two damage out of each shot, you couldn't be further from the truth. Fickle green dice work both ways, and fickle reds roll 1 hit all the **** time (very easy to evade).

Seconded. I've taken my own turn with Miranda and TLT at the LGS. I didn't exactly land that many hits with her until I ran into Farlander. Having only ONE target I could hit reliably doesn't help me win! Sure, Miranda can take a pounding due to shield regen, but that won't win you a game. I wouldn't want to rely on strictly TLTs to win a match.

TLTs are going to change the metagame for sure. So stop running current metagame lists against them, and start experimenting.

What!?

No! Keep running meta lists! I am nit even anywhere near satiated; my bloodlust demands the corpses of fat PWTs!

Fickle still hungers! REVENGE IS AT HAND!

-Unless you get the perfect approach and/or the opponent messes up you're not going to close that R1 gap in one round with 99% of the lists out there, meaning you're taking that TLT punishment. This leaves very little room for error while the other guy basically has to fly 1forward or 2hard in the direction that is facing away from you (simplified, but these 4TLT lists arent exactly hard to fly).

5 bases of movement covers two range bands. Even assuming the Ys don't move forward at all anything with 4-forward plus a boost can get from comfortably outside R3 to inside R1 in a single move. It's even easier for large ships.

Yes, it needs some skill and judgement to get right, but it's nowhere near the impossible task you're making it out to be.

Well... if you want to include 4 y-wings with TLT, they must be PS2. What I would do If I see that list is to go as fast as posible with all my ships. Normally I run a 4 or 5 PS-Mixed list, so probably 1 or 2 Y-wings should be down before they can shoot.

-Unless you get the perfect approach and/or the opponent messes up you're not going to close that R1 gap in one round with 99% of the lists out there, meaning you're taking that TLT punishment. This leaves very little room for error while the other guy basically has to fly 1forward or 2hard in the direction that is facing away from you (simplified, but these 4TLT lists arent exactly hard to fly).

Wait, what?

5 bases of movement covers two range bands. Even assuming the Ys don't move forward at all anything with 4-forward plus a boost can get from comfortably outside R3 to inside R1 in a single move. It's even easier for large ships.

Yes, it needs some skill and judgement to get right, but it's nowhere near the impossible task you're making it out to be.

What incentive do these Ys have to move towards you?Very little, unless you're a very specific ship.

Usually they will/should be facing away and be moving away, taking advantage of that R3 turret range. Yeah you can do it with a large ship+boost under optimal conditions, but its nowhere as easy as you're making it out to be. See what i did there...

-Unless you get the perfect approach and/or the opponent messes up you're not going to close that R1 gap in one round with 99% of the lists out there, meaning you're taking that TLT punishment. This leaves very little room for error while the other guy basically has to fly 1forward or 2hard in the direction that is facing away from you (simplified, but these 4TLT lists arent exactly hard to fly).

Wait, what?

5 bases of movement covers two range bands. Even assuming the Ys don't move forward at all anything with 4-forward plus a boost can get from comfortably outside R3 to inside R1 in a single move. It's even easier for large ships.

Yes, it needs some skill and judgement to get right, but it's nowhere near the impossible task you're making it out to be.

What incentive do these Ys have to move towards you?Very little, unless you're a very specific ship.

Usually they will/should be facing away and be moving away, taking advantage of that R3 turret range. Yeah you can do it with a large ship+boost under optimal conditions, but its nowhere as easy as you're making it out to be. See what i did there...

if you're implying it's skill based, then it seems we're dealing with a solid upgrade rather than something worth of its own thread

and that's the kicker, really. TLTs aren't a piece of **** (like PWTs) because they're exceptionally positioning dependent. There's no bull super maneuverable, no consequences **** you turret here; just a gaggle of 2nd-hand clunkers with tommy guns strapped to their roofs. If you're not a clunker (i.e, shuttle/Y/B/X/K/HWK and Z-95) yourself, you have every possibility of outmaneuvering them. If you can't outmaneuver them because of obstructions, then hey you just got outplayed

given an open pass, though, it's stupid easy to get within range 1 of a Y-wing. If you have boost, you really have no excuse. If you have boost and a large base, then you better be HLC Outrider Dash or else any difficulty you experience getting there is completely on you.

if you have thrusters, though, you don't even need to do that

4.) Against Dash, it's again all about his ability. Your tlt versus his 3 greens (possibly focus) pale compared to his HLC versus your 2 greens. If dash is allowing himself to get swissed, then that's on the player. Ks, ys, and hwks aren't terribly maneuverable and without mods tlt is anything but reliable.

Wait, am I missing something? Why would Dash get 3 greens against TLT? And why would you get 2 greens (unless your flying HWKs) against his HLC...?

4.) Against Dash, it's again all about his ability. Your tlt versus his 3 greens (possibly focus) pale compared to his HLC versus your 2 greens. If dash is allowing himself to get swissed, then that's on the player. Ks, ys, and hwks aren't terribly maneuverable and without mods tlt is anything but reliable.

Wait, am I missing something? Why would Dash get 3 greens against TLT? And why would you get 2 greens (unless your flying HWKs) against his HLC...?

SWTs don't allow range bonus; don't say **** about not getting obstructed

Question

I love my Scum Y Wings. I've been playing and competing with Thug Lyfe for a bit now, and have even done quite well in a few tournaments. 2 place of 14 in one of them. The hardest match up is absolutely dodgy ships, as I always play them with the A4 title. Going to try some TLT variations when I grab my Wave 7, with and without titles.

4 Y wings with Ion Cannons that shoot twice is quite strong in the joust or against any ship that you can get in multiple arcs, because the strength of any joust list and in fact most of the meta lists is their ability to focus fire. The title makes them front arc only, making them vulnerable to flanking.TLT without title us also vulnerable to flanking because of the doughnut hole.

My question is this: when I fly the Y wings now, against ships that aren't so dodgy, I keep them in quite tight formation, because no ship likes to be in front of eight shots. If I run TLTs without titles, what's the best way? I'll likely still keep them tight against other swarms or heavy ships, but I'm thinking split them against dodger lists. If I fly them in a LARGE tandem formation, then each ship will be covered by 3 others.

What do you think of that idea? Perhaps that is how Y wings can beat Super Soontir and Darth Vader. Even if you swap 2 for a large base (going to Test with Hounds Tooth), spread them. May not be able to make every shot on the same ship, but they'll be able to cover each other.

Thoughts?