Canon is not important.

It's all just fiction. Pick and choose the parts you like, ignore the rest.

Goes double when crafting characters and campaigns.

To an extent. If a player walks up to my table and says, "My character is the last Ithorian, because the Empire destroyed Ithor right before the Battle of Yavin and now I want revenge, and also I'm a Jedi because all Ithorians are Jedi," I would probably say no. When asked for a reason, I can point to canon and say, "look, there's Ithorians all the time. This galaxy is the one I've chosen to set my story in." If there is an established canon with firm details and events, that player is less likely to think I'm denying his creative agency and more likely to see my reasoning for saying no.

This is why Canon is important to a game-master.

It's not why it's important to star wars fans, though.

But yeah

Canon is not important.

It's all just fiction. Pick and choose the parts you like, ignore the rest.

Goes double when crafting characters and campaigns.

To an extent. If a player walks up to my table and says, "My character is the last Ithorian, because the Empire destroyed Ithor right before the Battle of Yavin and now I want revenge, and also I'm a Jedi because all Ithorians are Jedi," I would probably say no. When asked for a reason, I can point to canon and say, "look, there's Ithorians all the time. This galaxy is the one I've chosen to set my story in." If there is an established canon with firm details and events, that player is less likely to think I'm denying his creative agency and more likely to see my reasoning for saying no.

I might actually run with the player`s idea, if he or she really triggered on it. Of course, it only works if none of the other players want to be an Ithorian.. Wait, Ithorian Clones!

A canonical foundation has its place, I agree! I guess it`s the minor and unimportant bacground details that some fans need to be canon that fascinates(and baffles) me.

I might actually run with the player`s idea, if he or she really triggered on it. Of course, it only works if none of the other players want to be an Ithorian.. Wait, Ithorian Clones!

A canonical foundation has its place, I agree! I guess it`s the minor and unimportant bacground details that some fans need to be canon that fascinates(and baffles) me.

[Emphasis mine]

Well, you're applying purely subjective criteria to qualify what "fascinates and baffles" you.

The solution to that problem or answer to that question (whichever way you want to look at it) is that different subjects have different subjective perspectives on the same media.

I might actually run with the player`s idea, if he or she really triggered on it. Of course, it only works if none of the other players want to be an Ithorian.. Wait, Ithorian Clones!

A canonical foundation has its place, I agree! I guess it`s the minor and unimportant bacground details that some fans need to be canon that fascinates(and baffles) me.

[Emphasis mine]

Well, you're applying purely subjective criteria to qualify what "fascinates and baffles" you.

The solution to that problem or answer to that question (whichever way you want to look at it) is that different subjects have different subjective perspectives on the same media.

LethalDose makes a good point about subjectivity.

If you keep breaking down the argument the way you have, RodianClone, your original question will be reduced to "Why don't all 'Star Wars' fans hold the same opinions that I do?" which I strongly doubt is your intent.

I`m not saying it`s unique to Star Wars:) And I do get a lot of interesting replies and view points I didn`t think of in this thread. And I enjoy discussing the subject matter! Like with so much else, I believe that the goal isn`t to agree, but to keep the discussion going. There isn no right or wrong, no one true answer, just different view points. I get your view point and I understand what you say and how you see it! I get the curiosity and the need to know more about something you love and something that inspires and trigger you, I really do! Do you get me and my side of it?

I get your side. I just don't think you're being sincere or honest in your request. There really isn't much of a discussion going on to be frank. We pretty much have one side explaining in various ways why some aspects of canon may be important and another side that is taking pride in the fact that those details aren't important and canon to them.

That's not really a discussion if you ask me.

@LethalDose

@AluminumFalcon

@Kael

You guys are right! I have no right to tell people what should be important to them or not, it`s all subjective! I may have been a little harsh in my posts, I`m sorry for that. "Baffles" sounded jerk-ish. Sorry if i offended anyone.

And as I said, I understand the curiosity and I get why canon matters. I don`t really have a big problem with any of it.

I do try to see it from both sides and I think I have ended up somewhere in the middle. I understand why canon is important, but I don`t see why every little thing has to be made canon, like an extra in the background who is never ever mentioned.

I think it is cool that someone wants to make up stories about that extra, give him or her a name and an interesting backstory, that`s fun! But does it have to be made canon? Maybe it`s not even like that and I`m just being ignorant, it may be a none-issue.. It`s absolutely possible that I`m ignorant!(Teach me).. Fanon and canon are still kind of new and weird concepts to me. Help a noob out?...

I didn't think the response was "jerk-ish." My response was intended to directly answer the question. Or at least point out that the 'question':

Doesn't have a concrete answer. You're asking the community at large, why a subgroup hold a certain opinion.

That question can never be satisfactorily answered. You have to ask the individuals, but you asked everyone when you generalized to "Star Wars fans."

I get why canon matters.

I'd agree with the fact that you're being ignorant, but at this point the question has been asked answered, many times over. What's obnoxious is acting as if it hasn't.

The only possible additions I can think to add this discussion are the following points:

• Material produced by GMs and Players (I assume that's what you mean by "fanon") doesn't "have to be made canon." So that's answered.
• Material produced by paid artists commissioned and approved by LFL is... just that, created and approved by the agency that owns Star Wars.
• SW Canon wasn't all or nothing. It kinda is all or nothing now following the reset on 4/25/15, but what's left after "the great pruning" is pretty limited.

So, again, your question have been asked, and sufficiently answered. IMO it's well past time to let it lie; your "I understand but... [vague generalized question]" responses are getting incredibly tedious. Your persistence past this point is just you playing the "sensible knave," claiming to understand, but adamantly rejecting, to accept the provided answer.

Canon is not important.

It's all just fiction. Pick and choose the parts you like, ignore the rest.

Goes double when crafting characters and campaigns.

To an extent. If a player walks up to my table and says, "My character is the last Ithorian, because the Empire destroyed Ithor right before the Battle of Yavin and now I want revenge, and also I'm a Jedi because all Ithorians are Jedi," I would probably say no. When asked for a reason, I can point to canon and say, "look, there's Ithorians all the time. This galaxy is the one I've chosen to set my story in." If there is an established canon with firm details and events, that player is less likely to think I'm denying his creative agency and more likely to see my reasoning for saying no.

I might actually run with the player`s idea, if he or she really triggered on it. Of course, it only works if none of the other players want to be an Ithorian.

Hey, why not? I've almost completely recast the Jedi and even manichean nature of the Force based on one of my player's character concept. I don't know how many times I've had a player want to be "the last X", and I've never broken a game by indulging it. Now, if he wanted to be the last human, that would clearly not work for reasons you've stated...

@LethalDose

@AluminumFalcon

@Kael

You guys are right! I have no right to tell people what should be important to them or not, it`s all subjective! I may have been a little harsh in my posts, I`m sorry for that. "Baffles" sounded jerk-ish. Sorry if i offended anyone.

And as I said, I understand the curiosity and I get why canon matters. I don`t really have a big problem with any of it.

I do try to see it from both sides and I think I have ended up somewhere in the middle. I understand why canon is important, but I don`t see why every little thing has to be made canon, like an extra in the background who is never ever mentioned.

I think it is cool that someone wants to make up stories about that extra, give him or her a name and an interesting backstory, that`s fun! But does it have to be made canon? Maybe it`s not even like that and I`m just being ignorant, it may be a none-issue.. It`s absolutely possible that I`m ignorant!(Teach me).. Fanon and canon are still kind of new and weird concepts to me. Help a noob out?...

Something very important you seem to be glossing over. The fans don't make anything canon and ultimately have no say over what does and doesn't become canon. Sure there have been times when fan popularity for something has lead to canonization, this can be seen with the 501 and the expansion of Boba Fett as a character. But overall fans don't have much power over what is and isn't canon. That extra you mention, they're already canon by virtue of just being an extra. The only canon backstory that matters (in a purely canon discussion) is the back story released by Lucasfilms.

The whole "does it have to be made canon" thing you keep talking about happens so rarely as to be rendered moot for consideration.

I do try to see it from both sides and I think I have ended up somewhere in the middle. I understand why canon is important, but I don`t see why every little thing has to be made canon, like an extra in the background who is never ever mentioned.

I think it is cool that someone wants to make up stories about that extra, give him or her a name and an interesting backstory, that`s fun! But does it have to be made canon? Maybe it`s not even like that and I`m just being ignorant, it may be a none-issue.. It`s absolutely possible that I`m ignorant!(Teach me).. Fanon and canon are still kind of new and weird concepts to me. Help a noob out?...

This seems like a straw man: you're lumping your own imaginary ideas of how other people think of canon into one big blob and attacking it. But I don't think you're complaint exists, so it's kind of pointless. When has anybody expressed any interest in the canonic nature of "every little detail" (as you complained in an earlier post) or "an extra in the background"? Pablo Hidalgo is probably the only person on the planet concerned with such details, and that's just so that Disney can present a unconfused and cohesive marketable product going forward.

I don't think anybody else gives a hoot. When I think of what "canon" is and what matters to me, it isn't any of that. It's only the broad framework of the story and the universe.

@LethalDose

@AluminumFalcon

@Kael

You guys are right! I have no right to tell people what should be important to them or not, it`s all subjective! I may have been a little harsh in my posts, I`m sorry for that. "Baffles" sounded jerk-ish. Sorry if i offended anyone.

And as I said, I understand the curiosity and I get why canon matters. I don`t really have a big problem with any of it.

I do try to see it from both sides and I think I have ended up somewhere in the middle. I understand why canon is important, but I don`t see why every little thing has to be made canon, like an extra in the background who is never ever mentioned.

I think it is cool that someone wants to make up stories about that extra, give him or her a name and an interesting backstory, that`s fun! But does it have to be made canon? Maybe it`s not even like that and I`m just being ignorant, it may be a none-issue.. It`s absolutely possible that I`m ignorant!(Teach me).. Fanon and canon are still kind of new and weird concepts to me. Help a noob out?...

Well, as a fan, it's always fun to put a name to a face and to maby have a background to him or her (or it).

What bothers me is that every frikkin creature in the movies has, not only a lush background story, but they're almost inevetably some sort of mary-sue-like character.

You almost never get "average joe" that just didn't do much with their life.

Something very important you seem to be glossing over. The fans don't make anything canon and ultimately have no say over what does and doesn't become canon. Sure there have been times when fan popularity for something has lead to canonization, this can be seen with the 501 and the expansion of Boba Fett as a character. But overall fans don't have much power over what is and isn't canon. That extra you mention, they're already canon by virtue of just being an extra. The only canon backstory that matters (in a purely canon discussion) is the back story released by Lucasfilms.

The whole "does it have to be made canon" thing you keep talking about happens so rarely as to be rendered moot for consideration.

This seems like a straw man: you're lumping your own imaginary ideas of how other people think of canon into one big blob and attacking it. But I don't think you're complaint exists, so it's kind of pointless. When has anybody expressed any interest in the canonic nature of "every little detail" (as you complained in an earlier post) or "an extra in the background"? Pablo Hidalgo is probably the only person on the planet concerned with such details, and that's just so that Disney can present a unconfused and cohesive marketable product going forward.

I don't think anybody else gives a hoot. When I think of what "canon" is and what matters to me, it isn't any of that. It's only the broad framework of the story and the universe.

Thank you, both! This is what I needed to hear. I clearly had the wrong impressions of things. Thanks. Finaly I got the answers I needed.

I was a bit confused(and wrong) about a lot of stuff

George Lucas threw the EU/RPG/Comics "canon" out the window with The Phantom Menace. He completely contradicted the way the Clone Wars happened.

I have no idea how the video games are supposed to be worked into the canon aside from being tacked on, so I can't comment (other than commenting that I can't comment ).

I've been a long time lurker in this thread, but just didn't want to get stuck in the mire that is "Star Wars canon."

Honestly? I have never had an issue with canon with any of my other like-minded friends and players. First of all, I'm pretty much a 'closet geek.' Oh, I have longboxes upon longboxes of comics, bunches of video games for multiple systems, tons of pulpy novels, a few toys here and there from various films and animated series, and a fairly huge DVD collection. But most of that stuff is in my 'study' behind a closed door (well, exept for my DVDs, which are shelved in my den/living room). I'm just not the sort that may as well wear a T-shirt saying "I <3 weird sh*t." In fact, the folks in my fantasy football league probably have NO idea I could list the names of every writer and artist for, say, "The Uncanny X-Men" over the course of its decades-long run. Or that I had G.I.Joe Renegades and The Looney Tunes Show on my DVR. Or that I have a complete understanding of the Universal Century timeline. Or what 'Capn Harlock' or 'Harlock999' even stand for... Ha. (And, yes, Leiji Matsumoto cliams ALL of his Harlock work is canon even though there's little to no internal consistency within his universe; it's all chaotic and contradictory. But awesome nonetheless!)

The vast majority of my friends all seem to think I just like drinking, flirting with girls, and f*cking around. That is, when I'm not working. Some of my friends and colleagues have even suggested I must have been an athlete! Which is a real joke, as I have absolutely zero athletic talent and spent my free time in high school with my theater group and my free time in college going to shows, watching indie films, and hanging with people who enjoyed ... substances.

So with this knowledge, you kinda have to understand that the few friends who discover my geeky habits - not that I necessarily try to hide them, mind you! - are usually the more casual 'geeks.' So while they may have read the occasional comic, read some of the novels, and watched some Clone Wars? Most of my friends are not the sort you run into at the local comicbook shop arguing over the extent of Wolverine's healing factor or the number of phaser banks on a typical Miranda-class vessel during the Dominion War. (Thank God!)

If someone says to me, "Hey, did you know Chewbacca died in this book I just read? Apparently, it's canon." Well, I'd just say, "that sounds stupid." Most of us would then laugh, and we'd all move on. I mean, to most of us, if it wasn't on screen? It wasn't REALLY canon. Sure, some of the novels are great (the initial Zahn trilogy), some of the comics are outstanding (the Ostrander-penned Quinlan Vos/Clone Wars tales), and some of the video games are fantastic (KOTOR and the X-Wing/TIE Fighter/X-Wing Alliance trilogy). So maybe we'll throw some of this stuff out there as material that could enhance our experiences in game. But none of us really argue about it ... or demand its inclusion.

My gaming focus has always been akin to the old Marvel "Star Wars" comics or the Brian Daley Han Solo trilogy - here's a planetary system you've never heard of, some aliens all hanging around, and here's the situation. I don't use canonical elements to the degree that it becomes any kind of issue. Sure, there are stormtroopers, TIE fighters, and the like. (And I might make mention of some Clone Wars stuff.) But I'm not about to start decreeing that this holocron was the same one in 'such and such' "Tales of the Jedi" issue. That kind of stuff just seems to get in the way of ... fun.

If canon ever did become a serious issue between me and my players? I'd just say, "hey, I'm the GM, and this is my universe." Not to be a jerk, but to set boundaries and expectations. "On screen stuff. Sure. Everything else? Let's discuss." Problem solved.

I think the only people who seem to need to adhere to EVERYTHING canon are the ones who just really need to relax.

And you know what? It's okay to have your own personal canon. For instance, I completely disregard all Trek films but the first four and "First Contact." Transformers Season 3 never existed; the animated movie was the end of the G1 saga. And what is this you say about a fifth season of Babylon 5? And a crusade? Never heard of that stuff. Heh.

In the Star Wars universe? Again, I've always maintained that only the films are canon ... as well as the two Clone Wars series. (Lucas may maintain there are inconsistencies between the 'formerly official canon' Tartakovsky series and the 'always canonical' Filoni-helmed series, but I don't really see them. Tartakovsky's first season came before the Filoni series. And Tartakovsky's second season came after the Filoni series. Right? What's the issue?) Everything else is just gravy. ...that may or may not enhance your own personal Star Wars flavor.

Just my two cents.

Come out of he closet, Harlock999. I didn't even know how much a geek I was until I discovered EotE.

If you know who Wilhuf and Sheev are, you could be a big geek...

If you've ever wondered if a dionoga might make a good pet, you could be a big geek.

If you've ever tried to push a button to drop your brother into a rancor pit, you could be a big geek (or a little sister).

If you've noticed that fighters with tiny cockpits have hyperdrives while travel time could be measured in weeks and your disbelief is ONLY strained by wondering how the pilots go to the bathroom, you could be a big geek.

If you know that all of these questions are about canon topics, you ARE a big geek. Let your colors fly!

If you know who Wilhuf and Sheev are, you could be a big geek...

If you've ever wondered if a dionoga might make a good pet, you could be a big geek.

If you've ever tried to push a button to drop your brother into a rancor pit, you could be a big geek (or a little sister).

If you've noticed that fighters with tiny cockpits have hyperdrives while travel time could be measured in weeks and your disbelief is ONLY strained by wondering how the pilots go to the bathroom, you could be a big geek.

If you know that all of these questions are about canon topics, you ARE a big geek. Let your colors fly!

It is literally not possible to like this post enough. I keep hitting the button, but it just keeps toggling on and off … and on and off … and on and off.

;)

Some of us can't completely come out of the closet. Sure my family and close friends know I'm a geek. But, some of us may have jobs that, if we revealed we liked to pretend to be Wookies or Wizards on the weekends, it could directly affect our job performance and promotions. Seriously.

So, I don't make personal friends at work, only away from work. While a cursory visit to my house may keep me in the closet, any in depth observation or exploration by visitors is going to reveal inner sanctums decorated with framed movie posters, action figures, etc. My office at work doesn't have such except that one little Darth Vader hidden on a shelf that when asked, well, my daughter gave it to me.

If you've noticed that fighters with tiny cockpits have hyperdrives while travel time could be measured in weeks and your disbelief is ONLY strained by wondering how the pilots go to the bathroom, you could be a big geek.

The same way they do in modern fighter aircraft...oh you weren't serious....

Some of us can't completely come out of the closet. Sure my family and close friends know I'm a geek. But, some of us may have jobs that, if we revealed we liked to pretend to be Wookies or Wizards on the weekends, it could directly affect our job performance and promotions. Seriously.

So, I don't make personal friends at work, only away from work. While a cursory visit to my house may keep me in the closet, any in depth observation or exploration by visitors is going to reveal inner sanctums decorated with framed movie posters, action figures, etc. My office at work doesn't have such except that one little Darth Vader hidden on a shelf that when asked, well, my daughter gave it to me.

This, which also says nothing about harassment by co-workers. People suck.

George Lucas threw the EU/RPG/Comics "canon" out the window with The Phantom Menace. He completely contradicted the way the Clone Wars happened.

I have no idea how the video games are supposed to be worked into the canon aside from being tacked on, so I can't comment (other than commenting that I can't comment ).

Not really. Almost nothing about the Clone Wars was known before the PT came out. We knew of a few characters who fought in the war, a few ship, vehicle, and weapon models used in the war, and where a few battles were fought that's it. Palleon remembered fighting Clones during the war but that was covered by a comic where the CIS tried to make its own clone army and they went insane. It wasn't until TCW that major problems appeared when they decided to make the Mandalorians neutral when the ROTJ novelization stated that they were fighting the Republic during the war.

Some of us can't completely come out of the closet. Sure my family and close friends know I'm a geek. But, some of us may have jobs that, if we revealed we liked to pretend to be Wookies or Wizards on the weekends, it could directly affect our job performance and promotions. Seriously.

So, I don't make personal friends at work, only away from work. While a cursory visit to my house may keep me in the closet, any in depth observation or exploration by visitors is going to reveal inner sanctums decorated with framed movie posters, action figures, etc. My office at work doesn't have such except that one little Darth Vader hidden on a shelf that when asked, well, my daughter gave it to me.

Interesting you should mention framed movie posters, Sturn.

Aside from my massive DVD collection being out in the open, I also have framed movie marquee posters of "The Empire Strikes Back," "Blade Runner," "Raiders of the Lost Ark," "Reservoir Dogs," "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly," "The Warriors," "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," "Fight Club," and "The Seven Samurai" on my walls. (Hey, I'm a single guy. So this is an acceptable form of decor, right?)

No need to hide the fact I'm a HUGE film buff; that's one of the things people first notice when they step foot in my home. Scorcese films? Got 'em. Coppola's Godfather trilogy? Of course. David Fincher flicks? His early ones, sure. Ridley Scott? Tony Scott? Rodriguez? Tarantino? Mann? Spielberg? Kubrick? Leone? Kurosawa? Even John Hughes? Covered.

And full sets of TV series such as "Starsky & Hutch," "Miami Vice," "Deadwood," "Lost," "Psych," "21 Jump Street," "The X-FIles," "The Prisoner," "Star Trek," "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine," "Batman," "House," "Red Dwarf," "Battlestar Galactica," "Night Court," etc? Yeah, folks can probably tell I'm a bit of a TV critic as well.

But for some reason, film and TV don't carry the same kind of potential stigma as longboxes of comics, toys, pulpy novels, RPGs, miniatures games, and the like. So, usually, people (girls and guys) are, like, "cool...!!!"

Now, if my movie/TV collection (both DVDs and framed posters) only consisted of sci-fi/fantasy titles? Ha. That might be a different story.

I should note that I have a veritable sh*t-ton of CDs in my living room as well.

Younger guys and girls are always mystified, yet intrigued by the racks of cases filled with these bizarre shiny dics...

George Lucas threw the EU/RPG/Comics "canon" out the window with The Phantom Menace. He completely contradicted the way the Clone Wars happened.

Not really. Almost nothing about the Clone Wars was known before the PT came out. We knew of a few characters who fought in the war, a few ship, vehicle, and weapon models used in the war, and where a few battles were fought that's it. Palleon remembered fighting Clones during the war but that was covered by a comic where the CIS tried to make its own clone army and they went insane. It wasn't until TCW that major problems appeared when they decided to make the Mandalorians neutral when the ROTJ novelization stated that they were fighting the Republic during the war.

Exactly.

And to be fair? Death Watch (the remnants of the Mandalorian super commandos) did indeed fight against the Republic.

George Lucas threw the EU/RPG/Comics "canon" out the window with The Phantom Menace. He completely contradicted the way the Clone Wars happened.

I have no idea how the video games are supposed to be worked into the canon aside from being tacked on, so I can't comment (other than commenting that I can't comment ).

Not really. Almost nothing about the Clone Wars was known before the PT came out. We knew of a few characters who fought in the war, a few ship, vehicle, and weapon models used in the war, and where a few battles were fought that's it. Palleon remembered fighting Clones during the war but that was covered by a comic where the CIS tried to make its own clone army and they went insane. It wasn't until TCW that major problems appeared when they decided to make the Mandalorians neutral when the ROTJ novelization stated that they were fighting the Republic during the war.

Yes, though what Zahn wrote was what was considered "canon" by the books and RPGs. A lot of fans (I'll admit, me included!) assumed that this was real canon.

GL ignored it and did what he wanted.

Yeah well Lucas was the guy in charge and honestly I think having the clones fight for the Republic rather then against as many, Zahn, you, and I included, was a nice touch.