Not to you.

Exactly!

Canon is important because people like to know what really happened. This is as true for Star Wars as it is any long running franchise. Fans want a common ground from which they can geek out about their favorite thing. Canonness allows for everyone to at least be able to have a basic discussion on the subject. Without canon it becomes difficult to have a discussion about Star Wars, more so because people may not always want to agree on what did and did not happen. Or what is and isn't important. What one should consider and shouldn't consider.

Canon basically provides a common language from which we can have a discussion. It's the reason why Disney got rid of so much of the EU. It wanted a common language to have a discussion about Star Wars. But it wanted that language to be as simple as possible so it could include as many fans as possible. When they made all of EU Legends and started with a new canon they made it possible for fans, both old and new, to be able to have a common ground through which people could talk about Star Wars.

Without canon anything goes. And that's a poor grounds to have a discussion on.

Canon isn't that important, especially when it's dictated by a corporation that recently bought the licence.

According to Disney there are live action star wars movies written by Lucas that are no longer Canon.

Which ones?

Canon isn't that important, especially when it's dictated by a corporation that recently bought the licence.

According to Disney there are live action star wars movies written by Lucas that are no longer Canon.

Not that I have ever seen or heard of. I would like to see you cite your source please, preferably in APA format.

Maybe he misses the m-word...

That's what I love about forums. Everybody is an expert, and everybody knows everything. You can go around and state your thoughts and opinions as facts. Yes sarcasm.

Yes there was that one line from JJ where he did say something to the effect that they do hold all the movies, especially the OT, as a bais for TFA. So everyone automatically jumped on the idea that they were throwing away the PT. Yeah, not so much. Disney is not getting rid of the PT. if they were, they would get rid of The Clone Wars as well, and not have Asoka or Rex in Rebels. So, please don't state "facts" without a source at hand please.

I know this may not be how others see it, but to me, though not canon anymore, Legends is the way it happened until the new movies come out and say otherwise. Further, until something is contradicted, that's also how I'll see it as having happened. This is especially true for all the names of things that don't get put in the movies. To me, there's too much rich material to ignore, like the Thrawn trilogy. Of course, though all lumped into "Legends" now, not all legends are equal, as anyone can tell you.

Though I understand and appreciate awayputurwpn's Hobbit analogy, an important distinction is that in the case of the Hobbit, the book came first, and the non-canon movie came second.

The only canon that matters is that Han shot first. XD

Canon is important in the same way the RAW is important, it provides a shared playing field that everyone (well nearly everyone) can agree upon. Further, since it is all a fantasy and in a fantasy nearly anything is possible it's even more important that we define what is and isn't part of this shared fantasy or everything becomes so subjective that it might as well not exist at all.

The only canon that matters is that Han shot first. XD

As long as the movies and stories let us know if they are in continuity or not, I couldn`t care less about canon! And I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion, fill in the blanks yourself. The Thrawn triology is great, but I don`t care if it`s canon or in its own alternate universe. It`s up to the audience or viewer to decide if it counts or not, everyone will interpret it and view it differently and put different subjective meanings to it, no matter what you call it, canon or legends. Who cares? The RPGs sure aren`t canon and non of our games are! It`s all just fiction anyhow! There are countless versions of Batman and superhero stories and as long as we know which stories are in continuity with eachother, it`s all good, non are worth more than others... Peace

... It`s all Kanan!

Seeing as this is the seventh thread you've started since March of this year that has "canon" in the title, I find myself doubting that you couldn't care less.

Canon isn't that important, especially when it's dictated by a corporation that recently bought the licence.

According to Disney there are live action star wars movies written by Lucas that are no longer Canon.

Which ones?

The Ewoks movies, and the Star Wars Holiday Special, at least. I don't know if there are others.

As long as the movies and stories let us know if they are in continuity or not, I couldn`t care less about canon! And I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion, fill in the blanks yourself.

It’s not just Star Wars fans. It’s all fans of fiction, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29

The concept literally goes back to Biblical times, and beyond.

Canon, by definition, forms the very foundation of that particular Universe, and knowing what is at the root of everything is fundamental to human experience and all sentience as we know it.

The reason that humans are currently at the top of the food chain is because, as a species, we are very intelligent, and we are very, very good at the game “One of these things is not like the others.” To be good at that game, you have to be good at recognizing what makes those things similar, and therefore what makes the one thing different.

So, telling people to ignore Canon, or that everything is Canon, is going against basic principles of human existence.

Good luck with that.

Thoughts about this thread:

The title is posed as a question, but it really just seems like a space to rant, and maybe to poke at people who have a different opinion.

I can't fathom why it matters to the OP what other people do in their games.

The premise conflates a series of ideas about how people view and use canon that are probably "inaccurate" at best. It's like the OP has a stereotype in his head, and is shoving everyone who is interested in "canon" into the same box. Example:

And I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion, fill in the blanks yourself.

Personally, canon forms the framework for my game, but I always make up my own planet, organizations, NPCs, etc. I don't care about every little detail, and I will almost never include a direct reference to any of the canon "details". The very last thing I would do is include a cameo of an iconic character. I might rip off scenes and settings and twist them, depending on the audience: if it's my "Team 50" group, I can freely rip from TCW because they'd never watch it; if it's my son, I have to be more creative.

I'm sure everybody has their own unique take on what's canon and how important the depth of detail is in their game. I don't know why the OP is trying so hard to shove everybody into a single box, it seems antagonistic.

I suspect that this intense focus on what is and is not canon arose from the fact that nobody knew what was and was not canon for a very long time.
And then it got aggrevated by having levels of canon instead of just "canon and non-canon".

If you look at most other story franchises, you have a very clear line between canon and not canon.

In SW, it was always very muddled.

And now that Disney has stepped in and drawn a very clear line, alot of fans are upset because their favourite stories that used to be "kinda canon, kinda not" are now definately not canon.

In essence, you have a ton of fans that have been living under the illusion that all the stuff that they liked could be counted as canon, and all the stuff that they didn't like could be counted as not really canon, and then suddenly that decision is taken away from them and they have someone else telling them what is and is not canon.

The one thing I've wondered about - under the old reign, the movies were sacrosanct, then the novels, then the old NPR radio plays. I wonder if the novels and Brian Daley plays still figure into the New Cannon, or are they now regulated to the same bin as Thrawn and KJA?

I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion

Nothing alienates a group of fans more than by telling them "it's just fiction."

Yes, we are aware that Star Wars is all made up. It's just as apparent to us as it is to you. But that doesn't change how important or special it is to us. It's something we're very interested in, and something we care deeply about. To have others tell us what is and is not true about it bothers us. When you spend as much time in this galaxy as we have, knowing what's there and what's not matters.

The old novelizations are Legends, just like everything else that wasn't one of the 6 films and more recent The Clone Wars TV series.

I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion

Nothing alienates a group of fans more than by telling them "it's just fiction."

Yes, we are aware that Star Wars is all made up. It's just as apparent to us as it is to you. But that doesn't change how important or special it is to us. It's something we're very interested in, and something we care deeply about. To have others tell us what is and is not true about it bothers us. When you spend as much time in this galaxy as we have, knowing what's there and what's not matters.

What?!

It's FICTION!?

You're telling me that this isn't actually a historical document of the heroic struggles of a small resistance group in a galaxy far far away?

YOU'VE RUINED MY CHILDHOOD!

Canon, Jedi and the Force, Game Balance, Starship rules, combat lethality and other forum "conflict themes" XD

I use to prefer canon. Some people gave some pretty good arguments, and I like to add my own one.

Personally, I like to maintain as much clear as I can the main universe idea from George and the "officials" sources. We can like it or not, but I prefer to know the most precise and accurate vision of the world. Old movies (Ep 4,5,6) acting was just HORRIBLE! But it's just MY HORRIBLE canon movies XD

Apart from that I say that it's IMPOSSIBLE to roleplay just with canon info. I don't use to break canon stories, but I add new elements trying to preserve the universe coherence and the original construction as much as I can. Legends for me, have the same value that a good friend writing a good story, if I like, I would use it, no more no less, but always considering that those new ideas doesn't contradict canon.

I would also add that, the same way that "pro-canon" should respect people who wants a more "free world" options, "anti-canon" should respect people that say that they only use canon, this isn't so complicated. You can like Justin Bieber or not, but respect the other side... well, in this case there is only one good pick: HATE HIM XD

EDIT: Sorry I lied, the true reason is David's Filoni COOL cowboy hat XDD

As long as the movies and stories let us know if they are in continuity or not, I couldn`t care less about canon! And I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion, fill in the blanks yourself. The Thrawn triology is great, but I don`t care if it`s canon or in its own alternate universe. It`s up to the audience or viewer to decide if it counts or not, everyone will interpret it and view it differently and put different subjective meanings to it, no matter what you call it, canon or legends. Who cares? The RPGs sure aren`t canon and non of our games are! It`s all just fiction anyhow! There are countless versions of Batman and superhero stories and as long as we know which stories are in continuity with eachother, it`s all good, non are worth more than others... Peace

... It`s all Kanan!

Not sure what beef you have given both the topic of this subject and the post inside of it...

But, why does it matter? Because when watching or reading the various sources, if they don't try to fit into one, larger, cohesive story, then it makes it very hard to work out what happened when. A single novel, that's easy for a writer to keep track of the details. But move to a longer time period, like entire seasons of a TV show, and it can become much harder. Even more so when you add even more media formats. But if canon says a ship is X size, but later sources can't seem to keep that straight, then authors can have weird things happen (like a ship fitting where it doesn't or mysteriously having something somewhere it didn't before...).

And if it doesn't matter to you, then why even create this thread.

The old novelizations are Legends, just like everything else that wasn't one of the 6 films and more recent The Clone Wars TV series.

Which means they aren't canon. Should some author somewhere decide to bring back in some detail from the Legends stuff, that just makes that one detail canon. Calling it Legends is just a word, with no real meaning behind it unlike canon.

As long as the movies and stories let us know if they are in continuity or not, I couldn`t care less about canon! And I have a hard time understanding why it`s so **** important to people to know everything about every little detail about the Galaxy, it`s ficyion, fill in the blanks yourself. The Thrawn triology is great, but I don`t care if it`s canon or in its own alternate universe. It`s up to the audience or viewer to decide if it counts or not, everyone will interpret it and view it differently and put different subjective meanings to it, no matter what you call it, canon or legends. Who cares? The RPGs sure aren`t canon and non of our games are! It`s all just fiction anyhow! There are countless versions of Batman and superhero stories and as long as we know which stories are in continuity with eachother, it`s all good, non are worth more than others... Peace

... It`s all Kanan!

Seeing as this is the seventh thread you've started since March of this year that has "canon" in the title, I find myself doubting that you couldn't care less.

Well played, sir, well played! Is it really 7? ****! Well, I am really fascinated by the subject of canon and especially fandom`s obsession with canon, I`ll have to admit that. To me, canon isn`t important and I think all fiction should be open to interpretation. Nothing of it really happened, the viewer, reader or audience is in charge of what happened, it`s all up to them and their interpretation of it, that`s all that matters. I understand that people want continuity within single stories and even between some stories, I got that. But if someone wants one book or a comic or fan fiction to be true, it is. Maybe we all even agree on that, still this is a fun subject to talk about. peace.

I used to stick with canon until I discovered the people who produce it are prone to internal inconsistencies and flat out bad writing just as much, or worse, than some of the most horrible products of legends. If the Holiday Special isn't enough to showcase that, I don't know what is. As such, I'm a lot more prone to just chucking what I don't like when I'm running a game, which is most of the stuff prior to ANH, be it canon movie, TV series (people liked TCW? Well, to each their own...), computer game or comic book. I'd rather make up something myself, which I can then make 100% consistent with the game I'm running.

People really love the feeling of superiority because they know scripture better than you do. When canon got trimmed to a level anybody could grasp by watching a few films and tv shows, ignoring a shipload of crappy novels and comic books, they were upset.

That said, any collective experience of a narative needs at least a rump framework that everybody can agree on. If every last part of the story is up to personal discretion, at one point it will cease to be Star Wars. I like to call that framework canon.

I might not like the Jar Jar entity, but I accept it as part of the overall narrative. In the end, it is no less important to the story than Han Solo, as hard as it is to admit.

Funniest thing is, the fixation with continuity and a concrete timeline of events is, in my experience, more often a fanon thing and is usually the last thing on the mind(s) of the writer(s), who are interested in telling a good story over keeping continuity. (Not to say there aren't authors who don't have all their little ducks in a row, but I've just personally seen more who don't give it much thought or act deliberately vague (Captain Harlock).) My experience with The Legend of Zelda series is a good example; the fans scramble and ask where the new game fits into the timeline and the developers just sort of laugh it off and say it was a tertiary issue to them over telling a good story and making a fun game. I'm not guilt free on this, but I've learned to take things a little lighter. Star Wars is different in this regard, but only because it's a franchise with individuals in charge of organizing everything in its proper place, which leads to the annoying tendency to explain away every conflict and error, instead of just saying 'whoops, our bad'.

New Canon doesn't really change the Star Wars experience (other than banish some of my favorite characters, which is why I'll take the old over the new for now), and in my game it doesn't really matter as most of my players don't have as much experience with the massive Legends, or the new Canon novels or anything like that.

A little fun bit of knowledge: A friend of mine from college works at Bioware*. As part of his job, he works closely with Leeland Chee and others in the Lucas storyboard. He's told me once how crazy inconsistent the canon is, even when you have a single team governing all things canon. Apparently, Leeland is constantly tweaking the canon to make these inconsistencies tie together. And this was after the "canon wipe".

*lucky bastard but his dad was in the business before he passed away (not so lucky on that part) so he already had connections.