I played 3x Dagger Squadron, 3x HLC, 3x FCS a few times today. It did well, but once a B Wing started to get low on health there wasn't much you could do about it except hope your opponent blanked out on attack. If you downgraded one of the Daggers to a Blue Squadron, that would give you enough points for E2 and Jan Ors. That seems significantly better yet it only gives up PS on one of your B WIngs, PS that likely isn't going to even matter in the ruined nuanceless 2 ship meta. Or go Mangler on Jan Ors and keep 4 PS.

Think about it. 3 points to essentially add evade to the action bar of your B Wings. I have a feeling that all the BBBB/Panic Attack variants would benefit from this simple change. Remove a Tactician from one B Wing and make it Jan Ors. Remove an accuracy corrector from one B and just run 3 AC B's and one Jan Ors B.

The only con I can think of is no 3x alt art Dagger Squadron. That's fine I suppose, Blue Squadron's card art is beautiful, looks like a scene from 2001.

I like Jan ors on a B-Wing when paired with a tooled up falcon with C3P0 and Kyle Katarn. That gives the Falcon 3 guaranteed evades per round.

Just keep the B safe and let the Falcon do most of the heavy lifting. An alternative on the falcon is Lando which could net you a total of 4 evades per round unless he rolls 2 focus or 2 blanks. 2 Focus is not the end of the world as you would still end up with 3 evades and a focus. For me I prefer the reliability of Kyle.

Well looking at the mist hunter the only agility 1 ship with an evade token it would be interesting what will the effect be on the game.

Truth be honest evades are really pale when comparison with other actions. The focus gives your versatility and the target lock gives you the chance to modify more than one dice (so does the focus) evade well it is tricky, it can let you dodge that 1 hit over your agility or at least guarantee you cancel 1 hit when you roll blanks.

Sure it is the best defensive action and an evade with 3 agility has better odds than 3 agility with focus. not to mention that evade becomes stronger with less agility because it is a greater chance of you using it, however with B-wing you tend to focus more on the attack instead of the defense. The defense is 5 shields and that is it it will take two to 3 attacks worth to take one down where an Interceptor could die in a single attack. So B-wing focus on firepower and if it wants defense it simply bumps a ship keeping it from attacking so it can shoot at the ship behind it. If you added evade you would want to use free actions with it.

The few times I've put Jan on a B I've added Kyle and Rec. Spec as support with the ability to decide who gets the evade depending on combat positions. Seems to work better in the 120 - 150 pts bracket where the cost isn't so prohibitive. But then, the few times I've done that have been with a named B-wing where I want to keep it alive a little bit longer.

Think about it. 3 points to essentially add evade to the action bar of your B Wings.

Actually, it's 3 points to add evade to the action bar of your first B-wing, as any player with half a brain is going to kill Jan's ship first. I'm not sure that's really all that great an investment.

Think about it. 3 points to essentially add evade to the action bar of your B Wings.

Actually, it's 3 points to add evade to the action bar of your first B-wing, as any player with half a brain is going to kill Jan's ship first. I'm not sure that's really all that great an investment.

B-wings are great cheap but when you load them up with upgrades they become really inefficient really fast, and yes anyone with half a brain will kill the b-wing carrying Jan.

I wouldn't bother with HLC on B-wings personally. They're usually up close enough to use all four primary dice.

This was discussed a fair amount after the Rebel Aces pack was released. The prevailing thought has always been that B-Wings are best when used as blunt force trauma. That means you need to be very judicious with your use of barrel rolls - use them only when you really need to. Other than that you should be taking an offensive action so that you can hit your target as hard as possible.

Using HLC's on B-Wings was a thing right after they were released but eventually people realized that the 7 point cost of HLC's had pushed you into diminished returns because it costs you an extra ship which is much better than what you get for the extra offense the HLC's give you. 4 Blue Squadrons w/ AS (or 3 w/ AS + Biggs) was superior to that list alost 2 years ago and that was before the introduction of the Z-95 pushed it straight into a slaughter.

The unupgraded Blue Squadron is a good enough offensive threat as is. Losing your action weakens your biggest strength which is offense. Trying to give them a single evade when your opponent is bringing focused fire on one is still a losing proposition.

B-Wings running Tactician are really an entirely different animal in a Panic Attack style list. In that situation the upgrades you are using an individual ship synergize with the upgrades on other ships to create another layer of offense in the control it utilizes.

That's probably the best way I can explain how Jan Ors on B-Wings is a losing proposition (and you should skip HLC's on them while you are at it).

I wouldn't bother with HLC on B-wings personally. They're usually up close enough to use all four primary dice.

If a B Wing gets an extra turn that seems worth it to me. Maybe they'll have a better shot on a non-Jan Ors B Wing first and be 'forced' into not focusing down the Jan Ors B until later.

The original idea of running 3 Daggers was to get the jump in PS on other B Wing lists and Quad TIE Advanced lists because most people don't bid to Storm or Dagger. Of course I showed up to the casual game day to see almost nothing but Turretwing lists. Silly me, thinking PS bidding is actually relevant.

It seems to do decent at blowing away expensive ace small ships.

I've always played them as cannon fodder. Make sure they deal more than 8 damage before they pop. With so many ships able to hit with 3 or 4 attack dice, a second evade one only 1 ship seems meaningless compared to something like adv sensors which lets you take an action AND a red move. Team that with Keyan to clear the stress and you have a much ship for either arc dodging or laying down the pain.

I wouldn't bother with HLC on B-wings personally. They're usually up close enough to use all four primary dice.

3 HLC ships with 3 FCS is pretty brutal. Always having 4 dice and always denying your opponent a defensive range bonus is huge.

If a B Wing gets an extra turn that seems worth it to me. Maybe they'll have a better shot on a non-Jan Ors B Wing first and be 'forced' into not focusing down the Jan Ors B until later.

The original idea of running 3 Daggers was to get the jump in PS on other B Wing lists and Quad TIE Advanced lists because most people don't bid to Storm or Dagger. Of course I showed up to the casual game day to see almost nothing but Turretwing lists. Silly me, thinking PS bidding is actually relevant.

It seems to do decent at blowing away expensive ace small ships.

See my previous post for more detail.

In short yes 3 HLC B-Wings do have some decent match ups but it's massively outclassed by various lists that you would certainly come up against in a tournament or even at your FLGS.

Even then though, I think 3 with Advanced Sensors and one with Jan Ors is better.

Even then though, I think 3 with Advanced Sensors and one with Jan Ors is better.

Better than what?

Even then though, I think 3 with Advanced Sensors and one with Jan Ors is better.

Better than what?

Than 4 B's and 4 AS.

I've enjoyed 4x blue with fcs, one carrying jan. Awkward extra point though.

Even then though, I think 3 with Advanced Sensors and one with Jan Ors is better.

Better than what?

Than 4 B's and 4 AS.

And they are all weaker than 4B+Z.

Here's the thing about using the evade action that was highlighted not long ago in a discussion about what action TIE swarms should take.

If everyone takes an evade action in a given round your opponent is still likely targeting a single one of your ships. Every ship that takes an evade action but isn't shot at has wasted their action and can't modify dice for attack purposes.

That being said, a large percentage of the time that single evade token on a 1 agility B-Wing isnt going to save it from focused fire.

It's a much different situation than say the Falcon. A YT-1300 has a lot more hit points that you need to eat through but more importantly it excels at keeping itself out of a barrage of shots and attacking you with its turret. The B-Wings need to joust. They have to be in the thick of things and by their very nature they will be routinely taking more shots than Han, Chewie or Lando would typically be facing.

Well looking at the mist hunter the only agility 1 ship with an evade token it would be interesting what will the effect be on the game.

The Millenium Falcon has the evade action and only one agility.

I like jan on ptl keyan as he doesnt need the focus for attack so it helps keep him alive a little longer. Also surprising how much people wont attack keyan with an evade if theres a naked b with him.

I wouldn't bother with HLC on B-wings personally. They're usually up close enough to use all four primary dice.

3 HLC ships with 3 FCS is pretty brutal. Always having 4 dice and always denying your opponent a defensive range bonus is huge.

You're right that the firepower is brutal, but you're sacrificing a lot of durability. As for Jan Ors, I feel like you'd almost want that focus all the time anyway if you commit to HLC and FCS.

At the end of the day, you're deciding between:

3 X 4 attack

evade conversion on 1 ship

or

4 x 3 attack

33% increase in durability

33% increase in fire arc coverage

I like jan on ptl keyan as he doesnt need the focus for attack so it helps keep him alive a little longer. Also surprising how much people wont attack keyan with an evade if theres a naked b with him.

Well those poor unfortunates need taking to a padded room because they are clearly nutso.

Here's the thing about using the evade action that was highlighted not long ago in a discussion about what action TIE swarms should take.

You missed the point in he his case.

What he is going for is using jan to convert a focus to an evade on one b-wing, after it has taken some damage' to either keep it alive a turn longer or get the enemy to choose a different target. If your first b-wing has lost its shields and taken 1 damage and getting an evade instead of a focus makes your opponent decide to shoot at an undamaged b-wing instead, then the evade token was totally worth it, even if it is never spent.

Whether or not that's how it would actually play out, I don't know, but that is what he was going for.

Here's the thing about using the evade action that was highlighted not long ago in a discussion about what action TIE swarms should take.

You missed the point in he his case.

What he is going for is using jan to convert a focus to an evade on one b-wing, after it has taken some damage' to either keep it alive a turn longer or get the enemy to choose a different target. If your first b-wing has lost its shields and taken 1 damage and getting an evade instead of a focus makes your opponent decide to shoot at an undamaged b-wing instead, then the evade token was totally worth it, even if it is never spent.

Whether or not that's how it would actually play out, I don't know, but that is what he was going for.

Fair enough. I honestly had forgotten exactly how the card read as I never use her. It's still going to be an inefficient use of points in either case, even if it's to help Keyan as someone mentioned. The rest of my post still applies.

Well, I tried it today. It did improve the list. But yeah, 4 B Wing lists are better generally. Next time I fly 4 B's or Panic attack, definitely fitting Jan Ors in there.

What about this:

Keyan PtL- 32

Blue Jan Ors-25

Blue- 22

Prototype Prockets- 20 or Green CR & 4 pts of EPTs

Do you kill Keyan or Jan first? Do you take out the A-wing before it can P rocket you? Or what if the A is a green with PtL and calculation?

Am I onto something or its this nonsense?

I won a store championship with Jan on a B-wing. The list was:

Biggs

Gaven

Blue+FCS

Blue+E2 Title+Jan

Jan is a pain and your opponent will WANT to kill the Blue with Jan first, but will be forced to fire at Biggs. Biggs will have his first action (focus) turned into an evade and Gaven will then pass his focus to Biggs every round. Biggs, the day I won the store championships with this list, only died once (Played 6 games). Stress has become a bigger issue since I last ran this list and Bombs are going to shake up formation flying. I still think this is a good list and Jan plays a big part in it.