After all the wait, and in spite of how absolutely beautify the Rogue Trader collector's edition is, I hate to say it but. . . who proof-read the document?!? If anyone did, which is doubtful, they really need to move on to a more suitable vocation. I am very pleased with the product, but definitely saddened by the degree to which it is marred by typographic errors. Rushed the document off to the printer without looking at it, did we?

They probably did so all the whiny people could stop whining...

What have you noticed so far?

ive noticed one mistake (cant remember where thought) of an extra s in front of a word.

I haven't got the book yet, but I tend to believe as regards the typos. It seems it's a very big issue in some FFG books, sadly. Dark Heresy is especially typo-ridden.

Which, nonetheless, does not hamper the gameplay, and the overall product is top grade, so these typos are just a minor annoyance.

djpeterso23662 said:

The thing with a final product like this is that, while you may notice all the errors you think were overlooked through 'lack of proof-reading', what you don't see is all the ones that were spotted and corrected. There is, afterall, only a limited time and number of people available for such things...

With only a few exceptions, errors in the published version of wargame and RPG books tend to be far fewer than those in earlier manuscripts; proofreading is, quite frankly, a thankless task, because nobody sees the work you've done, only the things you've missed. it's particularly evident in various forms of gaming, because these sorts of games require that sort of attention to detail and thus the intended audience are that much more willing and able to pick up on such things...

djpeterso23662 said:

Dammit. I'm a total grammar-nazi, so this will be a thorn in my side...

I know it's a minor thing, but sigh...it's annoying to the nth degree to people like me, especially in a professionally produced book.

Well, it's just that many of the DH typos could have been fixed with a Spell Checker. Every word processor has one. Sorry, but I know that due to the genre words that aren't in the 'dictionary' the writer probably got annoyed and turned the feature off.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Why not just stick the words in there ?

I haven't seen a spell checker that doesn't have that option.

Well, i have the CE and its a thing of absolute beauty .

It's a sensual experience just to handle and use. It looks gorgeuos.

But there are typos.

Unforgivable typos.

Sorry but thats the truth, and although i too am a spelling and grammar 'nazi' ( ) - typos and grammatical errors leap out and jar at me (much to my wife's annoyance as i tend to rant a bit when i find them...) - i don't think its unreasonable to bit a little disappointed, if not annoyed by this.

It's like buying a new car and finding a chip in the window seal. Does it matter? No. Does it annoy? Hell yes...

I consume books. Many books of all different types. I have 1000 page novels (close type too), even a 1400 page text book, and the collected works of shakespear that have fewer typos. Most of my other RPG books are practically typo-free in comparison - including the other GW rulebooks/codexes/et. al.

Proofreading is a thankless task for sure (i speak from experience) but it is essential. Dark Heresy was disgraceful in this regard (i have a BI 1st print copy).

Rogue Trader doesn't seem as bad (so far), but they are definately there...lurking...glaring at me.

Its 'hierarchy' not 'heriarchy' you see...

That's very disappointing. However, having spent over 15 years in the publishing business as a book editor and now a copywriter, I can testify as to how difficult it is to find competent proofreaders.

The proofreader I use now is the best I've ever seen in my entire career. She can spot when a period is in the wrong font. I will follow her to the ends of the earth to keep her in my employ.

Hey, I offered. At a time when everyone was running around offering to playtest, I was offering to proof read. I agree, it's not as if my grammar is perfect, but I can spot when there are grammatical flaws.

Therez nothin morr annoyin that typoos.

It's ironic that so many "spelling & grammar Nazis" posting in this thread are either ignorant of the rules they claim to adhere to, or feel no compunction to follow them as strictly as they would have others do.

The condescension and self-righteousness some people display when criticizing the work of others takes on a particularly amusing aspect when said criticism is, itself, riddled with error.

Fantasy Flight is a relatively small company. Personally, I am very impressed by the quality of the designers and artists they contract, not to mention the high quality of the printed material itself. I am happy that this is how they spend their budget. Sure, it would be wonderful if their books were free of typos, and perhaps when Fantasy Flight has an unlimited budget and is no longer at the mercy of their printers, they can hire a crack squad of spelling and grammar Nazis (though hopefully not the ones that frequent forums like these), and not have to worry about hitting print dates and ship dates.

Cut the guys some slack. It's incredibly hard work to deliver a product the caliber of Rogue Trader. Point out errors and typos if you must (constructive criticism is helpful, after all), but leave the arrogance at the door.

Thrasymachos said:

so say we all

Thrasymachos said:

What arrogance? People are informing FFG that their proof-reading isn't up to scratch. They're otherwise putting out a high quality product, so when typos and other such things crop up it's quite jarring. If nobody says anything then the problem may well go unnoticed. If people speak up, however, it might get fixed. I've noticed minor flaws in the DH books as well.

Just to be clear...I was attempting to express my sympathy regarding the difficulty in finding and hiring top-notch proofreaders. I haven't even received my book yet, so I can't comment on whether or not the proofreading was poor.

Considering what I do for a living, I'm the last person to persecute spelling and grammar errors. Talk about painting a big target on your back! LOL

Me fail inglish?? That unpossible!

Mazinkaiser said:

You see, what you've got yourself there is Newspeak...

Thrasymachos said:

Well, this is a forum is it not? A somewhat less rigorous format for the old 'grammer 'n spellin' 'nazis' like me to worry about. I'll only really balk at text-speak.

Thrasymachos said:

Caliber? Is that like calibre? Hehe...

I don't think i was being arrogant, nor did I frankly see much arrogance from other posters.

That said, I paid £120 (inc. P&P) for this bloody marvellous book and if its not ABSOLUTELY PERFECT i'll be as arrogant as I like about it thank you.

Rogue Trader is a fantastic book, at least presentationally. Were I working for FFG i'd want it to be as perfect as possible, and if the fans find flaws, i'd want to know what they are.

Sure there's a lot of moaning and whining, but if FFG have any sense about them (which they certainly seem to) they'll wade through the 'criticism' to the 'constructive' that often seems to underpin it and take that forward into their future products.

Personally i think there's a lot of evidence that they really are listening to us ungrateful, grumbling, nitpicking critics (who buy their stuff and keep them in jobs after all) and the quality of product chucked out by FFG (compared to BI) is much, much higher.

All credit to them!!

But there are still typos...and they're still annoying the skin off me...

Is it just me or is "daemon" 20x more rocking than "demon"?

I've noticed a few grammatical and spelling errors here and there, but the biggest problem I've had were the issues that were erratad in DH that were reverted back to pre-errata in RT.

I don't have an exact example currently as my book is upstairs, but I remember seeing 1 or 2 issues that were fixed with an errata and are now unfixed in RT. The solution is simple enough, but its upsetting that FFG wouldn't be able to communicate the errata between the RT and DH staff to ensure they are both on the same page.

Please excuse me for unburdening myself in this public forum, but. . . having slept on it I sincerely repent having started this thread. I even went so far as to report myself to the sysops of the forum for having posted a message that, in hindsight, is just too trollish to have any positive outcome. The good folks at FFG wrote me and responded that they feel their integrity would be compromised by pulling a critical thread, even at the request of its originator. Now that's what I call integrity. Anyway, I feel it appropriate to make a public apology as well. I feel that with the enormous amount of work that went into the Rogue Trader core book, it is much, much more important to focus on the positive and get on with the adventure, than it is to pick at the nits. For my part I will continue to strive to make the forums a more positive place and to sleep on posts before clicking that Publish button. I have no doubt that FFG staff give their best to make each product of highest quality possible, and I look forward to more great things for Rogue Trader in the near future.

But its possible to 'focus on the positive', and 'pick and the nits', and indeed both are valuable feedback to FFG; the former to enhance their corporate reputation (assuming they want to), the latter to feed into their 'continuous improvement' systems (assuming they have them).

Im really happy with the product, all the mistakes doesnet meen so much, but i dont think a Melta gun is supossed to weight 40kg ( the same as the Multi Melta)

It's probably a contractual thing; FFG picked up the license from GW/Black Library and their products are absolutely riddled with misspellings, typos, grammatical errors and other faux pas beyond counting. These errors were either simply ignored or the (I'm going to use the terms loosely here) editors and proof readers weren't familiar enough with spelling and grammar to simply didn't realize there were errors in the first place.

My thought is that these same people (or their clones) were hired on contractually by FFG as part of the deal with GW/Black Library with the thought in mind that "It's more important to get product out than it is to have grammar and spelling in place; not that many people read or comprehend reading these days anyway" sort of proviso in the agreement.

I offered to proofread ANYTHING FFG wanted proofread FOR FREE, and I am a proofreader for legal documents. They told me they had a paid proofreader, and I informed them that if I put out that level of work in my field, I would be sent to jail. Of course, this is legal documentation, court cases, etc., but still, it irritated me enough to offer to do it so that the final product would be pristine. They declined, andf now we have Rogue Trader- which I love full of the errors and typos I knew it would have.

Still, it is a great book!