So I'm a huge fan of the TIE Defender, and Vessery's ability is pretty awesome for almost always having TL+Fo on attack. With the new Advanced & Wave 7 stuff, here's a list I'm contemplating:

Vessery [35]

- Engine Mk II [1]

- Mangler [4]

[=40]

Tempest [21] x2

- TIE/x1 title [-4]

- ATC [5]

[=22x2=44]

Backstabber [16]

The Tempests will want to not use their TLs, which means Vessery has targets to choose from with his free TLs. Backs is a nice little flanker that people tend to underestimate, as he's more-or-less a really cheap Squint.

On offense: Assuming you use TLs for ATC and not for rerolls, this list has the equivalent of 11 Attack dice (12 if Backs is out-of-arc), with 3 guaranteed crits a round. On defense: you have 20 health to chew through, all at 3 Agility.

Thoughts?

This

Vader takes better advantage of ATC than scrubs,

Also have Colzet take those shiny tracers (when theyre released)

And with that, I'm happy for having a TIE Defender for more than the Predator and Outmaneuver cards it came with.

So I'm a huge fan of the TIE Defender, and Vessery's ability is pretty awesome for almost always having TL+Fo on attack. With the new Advanced & Wave 7 stuff, here's a list I'm contemplating:

Vessery [35]

- Engine Mk II [1]

- Mangler [4]

[=40]

Tempest [21] x2

- TIE/x1 title [-4]

- ATC [5]

[=22x2=44]

Backstabber [16]

The Tempests will want to not use their TLs, which means Vessery has targets to choose from with his free TLs. Backs is a nice little flanker that people tend to underestimate, as he's more-or-less a really cheap Squint.

On offense: Assuming you use TLs for ATC and not for rerolls, this list has the equivalent of 11 Attack dice (12 if Backs is out-of-arc), with 3 guaranteed crits a round. On defense: you have 20 health to chew through, all at 3 Agility.

Thoughts?

Vessery really wants an HLC.

Dropping the ATC's down to accuracy correctors and ditching the TIE Mk2 makes it possible.

So I'm a huge fan of the TIE Defender, and Vessery's ability is pretty awesome for almost always having TL+Fo on attack. With the new Advanced & Wave 7 stuff, here's a list I'm contemplating:

Vessery [35]

- Engine Mk II [1]

- Mangler [4]

[=40]

Tempest [21] x2

- TIE/x1 title [-4]

- ATC [5]

[=22x2=44]

Backstabber [16]

The Tempests will want to not use their TLs, which means Vessery has targets to choose from with his free TLs. Backs is a nice little flanker that people tend to underestimate, as he's more-or-less a really cheap Squint.

On offense: Assuming you use TLs for ATC and not for rerolls, this list has the equivalent of 11 Attack dice (12 if Backs is out-of-arc), with 3 guaranteed crits a round. On defense: you have 20 health to chew through, all at 3 Agility.

Thoughts?

Vessery really wants an HLC.

Dropping the ATC's down to accuracy correctors and ditching the TIE Mk2 makes it possible.

Or downgrade Backstabber to a lesser TIE.

Or drop the TIE completely, squeeze in the HLC and upgrade the Advanced TIEs to named folks.

Can't say I'm huge on the idea of Vessery with AC TIE Advanced: you'll be wasting actions to acquire TLs that will only serve the singular purpose of activating Vessery's ability. If you use ACs, you want those TIEs Focusing or Evading as much as possible.

Something like....

Colonel Vessery

Heavy Laser Cannon

Maarek Stele

TIE/x1

Predator

ATC

Zertik Strom

TIE/x1

ATC

As a quick, random thought. Zertik and Stele try to get up close and personal and brawl at R1 while Vessery floats around in the distance sprinkling the enemy with HLC shots.

Or downgrade Backstabber to a lesser TIE.

Or drop the TIE completely, squeeze in the HLC and upgrade the Advanced TIEs to named folks.

Can't say I'm huge on the idea of Vessery with AC TIE Advanced: you'll be wasting actions to acquire TLs that will only serve the singular purpose of activating Vessery's ability. If you use ACs, you want those TIEs Focusing or Evading as much as possible.

I agree with you. But you will have the same problem with ATC generic advanced----you have to grab TL's to use ATC, so on those turns, you can't evade/focus same as AC advanced.

Ultimately, Vess wants at least one teammate that can 'afford' to grab a TL and not be totally vulnerable (Vader or TC Fel come to mind).

Atc demands you not spend the Target lock, which is why Vessery loves them. Once the Advanced locks on, they shouldn't need to lock again until they need a new target.

Atc demands you not spend the Target lock, which is why Vessery loves them. Once the Advanced locks on, they shouldn't need to lock again until they need a new target.

Same for an accuracy corrector advanced. Might need to spend the TL at range 1, but usually not, and as mentioned would rather evade generally speaking. I'm not saying its 'better', just cheaper, allowing for the HLC on Vessery (rather than degrading backstabber to a 'weaker' TIE).

Something like....

Colonel Vessery

Heavy Laser Cannon

Maarek Stele

TIE/x1

Predator

ATC

Zertik Strom

TIE/x1

ATC

As a quick, random thought. Zertik and Stele try to get up close and personal and brawl at R1 while Vessery floats around in the distance sprinkling the enemy with HLC shots.

I've played a similar list with Vessery, Maarek and Alozen and I really liked it. Word of advice, try to squeeze in Veteran Instincts on everyone but Maarek, so he can shoot last. Otherwise, often you'll encounter this unfortunate situation, where Maarek's crits hit shields and Vessery's HLC hits hull.

Maybe like this:

Zertik Strom (26)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Maarek Stele (27)

Calculation (1)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Total: 100

I totally agree that Vessery needs an HLC so your rolling as much dice as possible with target lock and most likely focus. A mangler isn't worth the 4pts on a ship that already has 3 attack!

Love the idea of two named advances with ATC and Vessery. Time to get a Raider me thinks!

If you want to fly a non-raider version that shuffles the attack dice around a little, try:

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Adrenaline Rush 1

Sigma Squadron Pilot — TIE Phantom 25

Fire-Control System 2

Weapons Engineer 3

Stygium Particle Accelerator 2

Sigma Squadron Pilot — TIE Phantom 25

Fire-Control System 2

Weapons Engineer 3

Stygium Particle Accelerator 2

-100pts

To get a feel for the damage output.

(see main question below responses)

1) ATCs are the point of putting TIE/ads into this list, as they synergize so well with Vessery's free TL ability. Changing to ACs defeats the point.

2) I agree that HLC is good; I have loved that in other lists.* I'm hesitant for the points cost. I replaced it with Mangler to withhold the Range-3 Agility-bonus via cannon, as well as the crits. Not as good as the HLC, but seemingly worth some points. I'm not settled on it, though.

3) I'd like to keep the TIE for the extra hull and extra attack per round. A lot of ships in my meta are using lots of tokens for defense (e.g. Iggy, Fel), and having the extra attack helps nullify that advantage.

Backstabber is especially good, as he's a very cheap 3-Attack ship when he's out of arc. Either he'll be out of arc a lot if the enemy ignors him, or he'll draw fire away from the heavier hitters. Either way, he serves a bigger purpose that just an Academy. That being said, he's not set-in-stone, either.

4) I've thought about Vessery with dual Phantom-FCS-WE, but I don't own two Phantoms, and the cloak errata seems to have really nerfed them. I might give it a try, though.

**Question: Is it worthwhile to give up the fourth ship in order to beef up Vessery and change the Tempests to aces?**

* I used to fly a mean list with Vessery+HLC+Outmaneuver with a Decimator. 4v0 shots on YTs, 4v2 shots on normally high-Agility ships, <3 love. However, it's time for something new.

I've actually been thinking of running

Vessery

-Hlc

-Outmaneuver

Vader

-title + atc

-swarm tactics

Colzet

-title + atc

You can dish out some mean damage with that group, and the defenders barrel roll is quite nice to work with outmaneuver

1) If you LIKE ATC, then sure, that's cool. But I don't understand why people think ATC somehow synergizes with Vessery's ability. The only thing Vessery 'needs' is a friendly target lock. Its irrelevant what other upgrades his allies are packing with respect to his ability. ATC does synergize with heavy laser cannon on a higher PS, because it is good for stripping shields and the crit from ATC is then more likely to go to hull. However, there is no meaningful increase in 'expected' damage from a Tempest carrying an ATC vs accuracy corrector (most of the time: 1 hit + 1 crit vs 2 hits).

2) HLC is absolutely worth 7 points on Vessery. I would go so far to say its auto-include on him and Rexler. If he can spend his focus offensively, he is basically dealing 4 damage every shot (rarely it will be less). Even without the focus, his damage should be around 3 per shot (sometimes 2, sometimes 4).

3) good idea.

4) Weapon Engineer is not necessarily good for Vessery. Generally speaking, you want to focus your fire and destroy one target at a time. Being able to grab 2 TLs at once doesn't help with that and so isn't particularly efficient. Sigmas are always better off with Recon Specialist to keep them from dying (having them around as long as possible helps Vessery more than 2 TLs). Possibly Rebel Captive or Mara Jade or intel agent are also good, but for a different kind of list. The New change to Phantoms is only really a nerf to the named phantoms. It actually helps Sigmas, because they no longer 'need' enhanced scopes to act as a blocker----they can use their decloak to block enemy movements and then reveal a move that 'jumps' over the enemy ship and still get their action, so its actually better for them in a lot of cases.

So you can go with:

2 Tempests w/ x-1 + ATC = 22 x 2

Vessery w/ HLC = 42

and have 14 points to spend between a TIE fighter and possibly put something cheap on Vessery, like TIE mk 2 engine or a 1 pt EPT (veteran instincts, crack shot and adrenaline rush all being useful)

Or you could go with:

2 Tempests w/ x-1 + Accuracy Corrector = 21 x 2

Vessery w/ HLC = 42

and have 16 points for Backstabber, or a cheaper TIE and spend some more points on Vessery.

Experimenting with either option can't hurt, but I doubt there is a significant difference in effectiveness and just comes down to your own personal preferences.

1) If you LIKE ATC, then sure, that's cool. But I don't understand why people think ATC somehow synergizes with Vessery's ability. The only thing Vessery 'needs' is a friendly target lock. Its irrelevant what other upgrades his allies are packing with respect to his ability. ATC does synergize with heavy laser cannon on a higher PS, because it is good for stripping shields and the crit from ATC is then more likely to go to hull. However, there is no meaningful increase in 'expected' damage from a Tempest carrying an ATC vs accuracy corrector (most of the time: 1 hit + 1 crit vs 2 hits).

THIS!

ATC is really great, but Accuracy Corrector has pretty much an equally good synergy with Vessery, if not better. ATC forces every carrier Tie to take a Target Lock before shooting. With Accuracy Corrector you can choose to have only one Tie take a Target Lock and end up at pretty much the same expected damage (slightly lower, because of direct hit and similar crits).

The main difference is, that you feel like your doing something useful while taking at target lock with ATC equipped, whereas you feel like your wasting an action when taking a target lock with AC equipped. In reality, the result is the same: You couldn't use a defensive action and you have 2 expected hits.

1) If you LIKE ATC, then sure, that's cool. But I don't understand why people think ATC somehow synergizes with Vessery's ability. The only thing Vessery 'needs' is a friendly target lock. Its irrelevant what other upgrades his allies are packing with respect to his ability. ATC does synergize with heavy laser cannon on a higher PS, because it is good for stripping shields and the crit from ATC is then more likely to go to hull. However, there is no meaningful increase in 'expected' damage from a Tempest carrying an ATC vs accuracy corrector (most of the time: 1 hit + 1 crit vs 2 hits).

THIS!

ATC is really great, but Accuracy Corrector has pretty much an equally good synergy with Vessery, if not better. ATC forces every carrier Tie to take a Target Lock before shooting. With Accuracy Corrector you can choose to have only one Tie take a Target Lock and end up at pretty much the same expected damage (slightly lower, because of direct hit and similar crits).

The main difference is, that you feel like your doing something useful while taking at target lock with ATC equipped, whereas you feel like your wasting an action when taking a target lock with AC equipped. In reality, the result is the same: You couldn't use a defensive action and you have 2 expected hits.

I think the belief of usefulness is definitely there. ATC means you can't use that target lock so it just sits there. Having Vessery makes it feel more useful. With AC even going for that target lock feels like a wasted action. There is greater potential damage with ATC as it is adding the crit result to your roll... But you need the target lock. It's likely to be more useful on higher pilots than on lower generics for that reason.

That and I have ATC cards but no ACs means I'll play with the ATC and make myself firmly believe it's a better choice.