I LOVE TIE FIGHTERS!

That's not love! That's...something else. Probably hate.

Good, good. Let the hate flow through you!

I love TIE fighters, and they do still work. I'm still finding new ways to use them and they keep surprising me with how differently a swarm can play with little changes.

The most important thing to learn is blocking 'better' ships. If you can take away their actions then (for the most part) you can strip away their dirty tricks, and it's a lot easier than it sounds with a lot of ships - Interceptors and E-wings are nigh impossible to pin down, for example - until you realise that 90% of them have push-the-sodding-limit as standard, meaning that they're nailed to only their green maneuvers.

The TIE Fighter All-Stars still works well, and Black Squadron Pilots allow you to use and abuse cheap elite pilot talents - Draw Their Fire and Wingman are awesome support talents, and the Khiraxz (whenever it arrives) has Crack Shot - sort of discardable ordnance for TIE Fighters in a one-use talent, and Lightning Reflexes - a sort of super-segnor.

I came across someone last night using TIE fighters in a way I'd not thought of - Black Squadron Pilots with Push The Limit and Stealth Devices - 20 points each, so generic interceptor/x-wing money, but ridiculously hard to hit in a joust for that points value.

Not to mention that new pilots are forthcoming in [Deleted By Order Of The Imperial Security Bureau] and the carrier - 'Scourge' looks very nice (I can see him paired up with Decoy working well - heft someone up to a respectable PS7 and let him shoot at a wounded target and get an extra die).

Are Tie Fighter still viable?

As a blocker/filler, very much so.

Change the MoV system please (I have no better system in mind myself, but I´m completely mediocre).

They remain strong as ever being one of the best blockers in game, one of the most efficient jousters and a great filler ship.

I use mini swarms all the time with brath.

The meta isn't the issue it's the scoring system that puts swarms at a disadvantage before the game starts.

Of course is viable!!!!

I love crushing them with my fully loaded Ten Numb!!!

It's too bad that Howlrunner's pilot ability wasn't just used as a title. The would have been a cool buff to tie fighters of all point costs.

When attacking, if you are in range 1 of another tie fighter, you may reroll one attack die.

I think the only TIE Fighter that doesn't really have much of a place is Obsidian Squadron.

Even Winged Gundark isn't that bad.

It's too bad that Howlrunner's pilot ability wasn't just used as a title. The would have been a cool buff to tie fighters of all point costs.

When attacking, if you are in range 1 of another tie fighter, you may reroll one attack die.

As it happens, that's exactly what the Swarm keyword does in Armada...

It'll be interesting to see what the new TIE pilots bring to the party.

Obsidians are okay - but....yeah. They're nice as an upgrade - 4 academies/4 obsidians - to shoot before PS1/2 generics and be slightly more resiliant to Predator, but I'd still prefer to either stick with academy pilots or jump straight to Black Squadron.

I have mostly used Obsidian over Black Squadron. Just one point gets you higher PS than the abundant 1's and 2's, and grants you a little bit of Predator safety. Sometimes I feel Black Sq. Pilots are too expensive because in many matches they are the lowest PS on the field, and I've now paid 2 points extra for what are essentially Academy Pilots. This doesn't take into account the Elite Pilot Talent, which definitely have their uses, though it makes them even more expensive. I just feel that if I get out bid in PS when using Obsidians then I haven't lost much on the investment. Can't really say the same for Black Sq. Pilots.

Though 7x Black Sq. Pilots is a hoot at 98 points, and I'm also keen to try 5x Black Sq. Pilots with Darth Vader (TIE x1, Adv. Targeting Computer).

EDIT: I should clarify because I just realized I have a contradiction. When I say "abundant 1's and 2's," I mean that when they show up in a list, there are usually a lot of them. However, they are still far less common than the prevalant 2-ship squads that have become popular lately.

The TIE Fighter is probably the only ship in the game where I like all of the pilots, including the generics.

Tie Fighters are still great ships. They struggle to kill Corran, Dash, IG88, and sometimes Fat Falcons/Decimators, oh and ACD Phantoms, so they lose some popularity. However, Wave 7 will bring out some more lists with1 Agility ships, TLT toting Y Wings and K Wings, so I think Swarms will soon have a meta with more good matchups.

I am running a 7 tie list tonight at my flgs. Howlrunner w/ stealth, backstabber, 2 x academy, 3 x obsidian

Lost to Brobots and dash/corran haha, Dash died, nearly killed one brobots.

I love TIE Fighters... they are in my top five among all of the ships in the game.

These little meanies will always be important in this great game.

The Pilots themselves are really good. I mean, if you take ANY TIE fighter pilot and put him/her/it into an Interceptor, they become insane.

However, as single type swarm, you have an effective threshold that once breached, you cannot win and that unfortunately is generally when you lose three out of the seven or eight. It's game.

In my area, the meta is:

Super Dash (PtL, HLC, Kyle and Engine) with either two A wings, two B wings or Corran.

- In this game, Dash will hit you repeatedly with four hits (focus and TL every attack). Your green dice will fold and you will drop below the threshold very quickly. Only hope is that you smash Dash fast and pray that Corran isn't behind you when it happens, otherwise, GG. Can't block and deny Corran's actions because he will have Adv.Sensors. Pray to the green dice Gods here.

Decimator/Phantom or Fel

- Same situation, except now one is getting stressed all the time and the Phantom is going to insta-gibb a ship every turn with five dice with little to no return fire.

If it is Expose/EI Decimator then yeah, he will five dice Howlrunner or just pick apart the closest and arc dodge at range 1 for the rest of the game. You need to stop this from happening to stand a chance. If he has Dauntless, well. . .

IGG = Brobots

- Yeah, can't block them due to Adv.Sensors so they will always have their actions. Opening salvo will see one to two ships destroyed at range 3 due to secondary weapons denying your range bonus and I doubt you will hit them back. Two reds versus four greens with an evade and AT kinda makes it impossible. Next engagement will tell if you have a chance at winning the game by how many you manage to have in arc and range 1. If you don't cripple one (i.e get the shields down and block the boost-S-loop which is coming next) then GG.

That is my experience with swarms on the top tables. You either fly perfect and have amazing dice and win by a MASSIVE, unbelievable margin or get tabled rather embarressingly. Anything else you will have fun against. The above? Not so much.

Again, this is solely MY experience and I have been flying swarms for good year or so now. Others may have more success but I cant bring myself to fly a TIE swarm anymore.

I see your points on obsidian re 1 point makes them tougher vs predator, and outbid other swarmers. I aacknowledge them and agree, and retract my statement that they don't have a place.

Still prefer Academy, Black and Named for TIE/ln though.

I love my TIEs, and I love seeing the beauty of a good pilot (player) pulling a squadron of them in a tight formation properly along the battlefield.

I see your points on obsidian re 1 point makes them tougher vs predator, and outbid other swarmers. I aacknowledge them and agree, and retract my statement that they don't have a place.

Still prefer Academy, Black and Named for TIE/ln though.

Obsidians are in a really nice spot being only 1 extra point of bid per ship over PS 1, and the "meta" of generic pilot costing being that most of the PS 4 options are not bargains, suits the PS 3 tie fighter. In a generic vs generic situations, those ties will be firing before and moving after the plenty of academies, gold, bandit, and blue squadrons, etc. that are seen in many lists. In generic vs unique situations, your ps bid is unused, so its good that at least you only put a few points into it.

Same thing goes for tala squadron and black sun soldiers.

I don't see how anyone could think TIE's are obsolete. There are still many uses for the ship. It can be a blocker, an extra ship on the map, one of a swarm. Some of the best abilities in the game are on TIE's. I think swarm's are one of the best builds still out there, if flown under the right person.

I prefer obsidian over academies. Blues and golds are both popular and having PS on them is really good.

Academy Tie Fighters are the best ships in the game, point for point.

Hopefully, this will always be the case, since having standards like that (as with burn decks in MTG), fills an important role in defining any meta.

At first, I thought this an absurd question. Of course they are! I've seen Decimators w/ 3 Tie Fighters work. I've seen all sorts of Tie Fighters work. They have a lot of great uses. Not just the generics, but the others, as well.

Then, I started to think about it. What about the hyper tournament scene? Is there life beyond Howlrunner and Tie Formation (can't say swarm b/c they don't swarm). With that.....I have to say something that I believe that I don't think people are on board with.

I think the 2 ship build is on it's way out. With the new waves, I see lots of things that can kill fat turrets pretty quickly. I am especially looking at ordnance and bombs. I know people are still dismissing them, but it will help. It's not just them, though. There are other things. I believe that the meta will be shifting by this time next year. You won't see the big 2 ship builds in such high numbers as you do today. Oh, I think they might make up 25-35% of the lists next year, but I think they won't be anywhere near as dominant. I think we will see medium build lists as the way to go in the future.

With that being said, I think Tie Fighters of all stripes will make more of a comeback than they have lately.

I think the 2 ship build is on it's way out.

I really hope so.

With the new waves, I see lots of things that can kill fat turrets pretty quickly. I am especially looking at ordnance and bombs. I know people are still dismissing them, but it will help.

Nobody believes me, but ordnance is already incredibly nasty against point fortresses. I've killed the fattest of Fat Hans in two rounds of firing with TIE Bombers, using just Wave 1 ordnance and Jonus.

The trick is that ordnance is very bad against high-PS arc-dodgers, which are even more prominent now (e.g., Decimator/Fel) than they were in Waves 4-5. All the firepower in the world doesn't help you when you can't reliably keep the opposing ship in your firing arc.

So what we need is a high-PS ship with lots of movement options, that can also carry enough missiles or torpedoes to put some real fear into those expensive Large ships. I think Redline might do the trick, and if he doesn't I'm sure FFG has other ideas percolating.

It's not just them, though. There are other things. I believe that the meta will be shifting by this time next year.

TLTs are going to shift the metagame--count on it. A pair of TLT Y-wings costs less than half your list, and if you're willing to sub in HWKs you can get it down even further. And they provide excellent insurance against fat targets. Against (e.g.) a Decimator, it's a nearly guaranteed four points per round, and Y-wings or K-wings especially will stick around long enough to make it count. Hopefully it will help shift the world back toward multiple ships in a list.

I agree with the 2 ship build though. I too hope it's fading. Too bad upgrades are the only way to accomplish this and not just good ship lists.

Count me as another person that liked/likes ordnance. Especially in Epic with Munitions Failsafe and now with double loads they can really kick some...

They haven't seen an upgrade for what? 3 years now

Well, that's categorically not true.

Pretty much every single Elite Talent and the a couple of the Modifications can be used by TIE Pilots. Some of them actually work quite well.

Crack Shot, Draw Their Fire, Intimidation and Wingman are all cheap and useful on Black Squadron Pilots.

Then there's the little matter of a certain disturbance in the Force based around the ninth month of the year two thousand and sixteen and an Imperial Assault Carrier looming on the horizon.

Not saying TIE Fighters need upgrades, but they've certainly had them.

I run Mauler Mithel and Backstabber as a dastardly Duo for 33 points, and they always make their points back.

They cost the same as a naked PS3 Firespray, but they are more fun to play.

Back when I used to play 120 points games I would always run Darth + 3 named Ties + Krassis Trelix with HLC. I kind of wish 100 was not the standard. When my Bro and I grabbed up the game as it was first coming out, we used to just decide a random point value then build a force. Had some fun small games and some fun large games.

Once I get my Raider in the mail, I'm looking forward to Darth ATC + 2 named Ties + Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist for 100. Though I'm sure I'll be playing epic games since my game mate has a Tantive IV.

I also used 2 Ties with Wingman as the wingmates for a Dauntless Daredevil Decimator. The Triple D was knocking two points of damage off of enemies during the movement phase, before using gunner to saw them in half.